H&K MG36 project - high ROF setup

[Phuncz]

I'm in need of a project and a support gun is something that's not yet in my arsenal. I pondered about a conversion like an RPK (AK47 + longer barrel + bipod + specific mag) but I don't fancy the look of the AK. The next best thing would be an MG36. This is relatively simple as it requires the 490mm barrel G36 (about 150-200€), a C-Mag (about 60€) and a new stock (about 60€). Now this is all fine and dandy but I made the selection between an RPK and MG36 because they have a v3 gearbox and thus an immense supply of parts and they can be made very reliable even with a high ROF. And that is where my question lies.

 

I'd like to maximize the ROF to the max amount possible without breaking the bank. I don't want to pay 100€ more for a ROF increase from 25bps to 27bps, but I'm willing to donate a few hundred € into max reliability and performance. I only need MAX 360fps and I'm going to use the full stock so I can fit a large battery. But there are choices I have to make.

 

G36:

 

Jing Gong G608-5 (150€)

or:

Ares G36 (180€) (has dual optics)

 

Is the Ares better/more reliable ?

 

Now performance-wise, I know a few things about what route I'm going to go, but I don't know if this going to be a good choice.

 

Setup 1:

- Modify FTK-11S for G36C (Speed 16.32 / S100+) (170€)

(spring, modular shimmed gear set, spring guide, piston, piston head, tappet plate, 6mm bushings, cylinder, cylinder head, nozzle, AR latch)

- Pro-Win CNC Chamber for Marui G36 Series (25€)

- Soft bucking and H-nub (10-20€)

Total: ~220€

 

Setup 2:

- HurricanE Tune Up Kit for G36C (M100) (45€)

(spring, spring guide, piston, piston head, 6mm bushings, cylinder, cylinder head, nozzle)

- HurricanE Flat Gear Set (High Speed) (40€)

- HurricanE Tappet Plate for Gearbox Ver. 3 (10€)

- Random AR latch (10-15€)

- Pro-Win CNC Chamber for Marui G36 Series (25€)

- Soft bucking and H-nub (10-20€)

Total: ~150€

 

Would I need something else ? I know nothing about motors, would the standard one survive a high ROF build ? Is 12v viable for my price range or do I need to look at 10.8v/11v ? I'd rather get a LFP battery if that's a good deal but I need to include a good balance-charger too, because I'm running Ni-Mh on my other rifles.

[Jon L]

Right first off get the JG over the Ares. Next shim and grease the gearbox when you get it. Get a 9.6v battery job done. I can get you a recording o my mates mg36, Its fast enough, if you go any faster you will start having feeding issues.

[bankz5152]

I know a guy that has a G36 firing at 60RPS.

 

This gear will essentially double your ROF but requires alot of tweeking in side your gearbox.

 

Id also say, get an Infected Mosfet and a Li-Po battery.

 

 

Why do you say JG over Ares?

 

Id take Ares anyday, those guns are built like brick *suitcase* houses and the body work is amazing.

[fyurian]

building the same project

banks where can u buy that gear??

i think itls be handy in cqb

 

 

motor: i advise get a g&p m160 motor i will pull anything u trow at it and costs 5$ more then a standerd eg 1000 from marui

or try out TM new high speed motors (i think its the eg 30000, dont shoot me if im wrong)

 

i build it with a cheap 2nd hand cA g36

the high speed gears kit from modify

7.4v lipo

pro win chamber

and a cmag (pm if someone has for sale)

[bankz5152]

Im not actually sure.

 

I know its called a double/dual sector gear. If you PM Crimson on here he could point you in the right direction, i think you also need to use a stiff spring & ball bearing spring guide. So it cycles properly.

[MDK_Marshal]

It's a RiotSC Dual sector gear. The guy is mainly found on the airsoft mechanics forums, and you can only get them form him, as he custom makes them.

 

I would strongly recommend AGAINST the dual sector gear; not because it's a bad product or anything, but it's way too much overkill, and you want something reliable. The amount of work you'll have to do to get a box with one of those working is already high; and for getting it working reliably, it's REALLY damned hard.

 

First off, you've got to ensure your AOE is SPOT ON, or you'll shred the piston in seconds, if that. You also have to remove the right number of teeth from the piston, and have a compatible piston to begin with. next, you have to stick in a HUGE spring to get any power out of it, and for that you need an extremely good motor, huge battery, spot on shimming, and great wiring (and probably a MOSFET).

 

All in all, if you want to go to 50+ rps, then it's very usefull. However, if you only want something like 25-30 rps... it's a big waste of your time and money.

 

Personally, I would recommend a decent motor, preferably one with neodymium magnets for the extra torque. Then, high speed gearset. Decent piston, sorted for AOE, and a nice wiring job with a MOSFET. Add a big LiPo battery and you're shiny.

[magic_golem]

agreed, i looked at that double sector gear and thought that it would need some serious work to get a gearbox sorted with that, serious short stroking!

 

CA are better than ares by a wide margin in my book and ive had every make of g36 there has been, perhaps jonL said JG as the OP said not max cost, JG's current models are very well sorted in the gearbox side, i just had one a month ago of the new batch, its got some changes to the gearbox casing that make it nicer, but mostly the motor is better and the components are very well made now, i didnt have to polish anything- was even shimmed perfectly

 

on and btw im jonL's mate with the mg36, cept its now got an ag36 launcher and i ditched the drum mag as it couldnt keep up with me, and im not even going for speed, so a side not would be that if your going for a high RoF and a drummag, replace the motor in the drum! and also the gears if you can as they are all ###### , acm and the other i had...g&G? i cant recall.

[DarkLite]

ARES's quality control is ubershit.

 

Go SRC. They make an MG36 right off the bat: http://www.airsoftworld.net/airsoft-guns/t...nuary-2010.html

 

Rewire it with a Mosfet, run it on 11.1v lipos, job done.

[magic_golem]

aye src gen 3's are nice, a mate got one the other day, they are the only make i havent owned, i looked over his and gave ita go, very solidly made gun, with the nice nylon fiber body that tm&jg still dont make.

 

also you should note that alot of shops that are selling guns by ares are actually rebranding their old, cheap,rubbish STAR stuff since area dropped that name due to bad rep, are/star are just poo when it comes to g36's!

[Phuncz]

Go SRC. They make an MG36 right off the bat: http://www.airsoftworld.net/airsoft-guns/t...nuary-2010.html

 

Rewire it with a Mosfet, run it on 11.1v lipos, job done.

Hmm that actually seems like a good deal. Does anyone have any experience with airsoftworld.net shipping to Europe ? Because I need to enter some kind of number and on the site I can't find any info what number this is: "Please enter your 8 character player number below:"

 

I'm actually not a fan of MOSFET's because I can't solder and I don't know anyone who can...

[DarkLite]

Hmm that actually seems like a good deal. Does anyone have any experience with airsoftworld.net shipping to Europe ? Because I need to enter some kind of number and on the site I can't find any info what number this is: "Please enter your 8 character player number below:"

 

I'm actually not a fan of MOSFET's because I can't solder and I don't know anyone who can...

 

Pff. Learn. It's easy as hell.

[Tinkerton]

with a high speed gearset, a decent shim job, a high speed motor and an 11.1v lipo, you'll get a stupidly fast ROF. ask me how i know

 

you WILL want a high powered spring, otherwise the piston wont fully decompress fast enough, and the sector gear will catch it before its done the full length, and it'll be more like a flamethrower than a support gun. Again, ask me how i know >.<

 

You'll want a tappet sector delayer thingy. otherwise it will misfeed like a *badgeress*... ask me how i know

 

i'm not sure it JG guns come with metal or plastic bushings, but if its plastic you'll want to upgrade those. Dont bother with bearings unelss you've got an 8 or 9mm gearbox, stick with a set of solid bushings.

 

 

The set up i've got is a set of element high speed gears and piston, generic piston head, element metal bushings, and a G&P M120 motor. i think you'll find its a lot cheaper than a FTK

[magic_golem]

aye a tappet plate delayer would be a good idea, they are cheap as chips to buy, only a wee bit o metal.

[Kalashnikov_kid]

Personally I use

SHS 13:1 gears (£13)

G+P M120 (£21)

7mm bearings (£6)

JG MOSFET (£6.50)

and a 7.4v lipo

 

Produces 27rps in my XM and 28 in a G36 (9mm shell)

 

You can substitute the M120 for either a M160 or ITU motor both are very good (1-2 rps slower) with nice trigger response.

 

On a 9.6 I'm getting I get mid 30's

[Jon L]

The number they are asking for is the UKARA number. It is a means of insuring that a player is intitled to purchase a RIF under UK legislation. You would have to phone them directly and discuss this with them.

[Cosmitz]

Hmm that actually seems like a good deal. Does anyone have any experience with airsoftworld.net shipping to Europe ? Because I need to enter some kind of number and on the site I can't find any info what number this is: "Please enter your 8 character player number below:"

 

I'm actually not a fan of MOSFET's because I can't solder and I don't know anyone who can...

 

http://airsoft.cz/shop/product_info.php?pr...amp;language=EN

[Phuncz]

Thank you all for the very useful info ! If someone knows of any other shop that sells the SRC MG36 for about 200€/£/$, i'd be very happy.

 

So to sum it all up:

- LiPo preferred but 9.6v or 10.8v battery also recommended

- MOSFET = crucial

- high speed gears recommended but needs other mods (tappet plate delayer)

- high powered spring

 

Only problem with this is that the local fps cap here is 360fps MAX so I'm stuck with M100+ or M110 springs.

[galactica]

You also must bear in mind that the c-mag you get will likely not keep up with any high rof. The Star one I had couldn't keep up with a standard KWA G36. This must be a major part of your research.

[Phuncz]

Hmm that changes a lot. A C-mag costs about 60€ minimum and if I choose the SRC MG36 and still have to replace it, I'm back at square one... At what max ROF is the standard box going to feed properly ?

To elaborate, I don't plan on achieving 40+ rps. About 25-30 is more than enough. But it must be very reliable and maintain a constant rate of fire (feed), because well, it's a support weapon

[Crimson]

my c mag worked up to 20 rps over that it was useless with the stupid 9v battery

 

use a small 7v lipo in the cmag this allows it to keep up with the feeding

 

i had the same problem on my 42 rps pro win there was no m4 drum/cmag that could keep up, then someone decided to get rid of the stupid 9v battery and use a lipo who i dont know but it was a very smart move.

 

currently my g36 is doing 37rps using low caps/mid caps

 

 

 

[Jon L]

Im just going to say again, as long as your gearbox is shimmed correctly and the motor height is just right, you will have a high enough ROF on a 9.6v stanndard battery or a 7.4c lipo, you wont need a super high cycle motor or high speed gears unless you are pushing for 30+ rps

[magic_golem]

hey well i run a g36 using 9.6 on a stock JG motor and pull 18 round a second out. it was 20 when i first made it but the gearbox needs a clean as that was a year ago.

i just however installed an element high speed motor(red) without making any other changes to the wiring or gears battery etc, and my rps just hopped up to 27 odd rps so with a clean out of my gearbox i recon it would be around 30 rps.

and for reference im using a standard gear ration an an m95 or 105 spring which which my perfect airseal give me 328 on the nose with my hopw set and 340 odd with it off ( i just cant remmeebr the spring im using)

[charlieboy69]

ITS ALL ABOUT THE SHIMMING /cruise

 

seriously though, i once got a stock ver 3 acm gearbox to do 30 a second on a 9.6 after i reshimmed it

if u shim well = good rof

however, if u have bad internals, then shimming will not save ur plastic piston/gears. it will be fast, but not for long

good advice = use hard gears, i dunno if u need to super fast ones, but i find that high torque gears can give good longevity, and when combined with a lower torque spring (i.e i use m120 strength gears with a 1 joule spring) u get ROF (assuming well shimmed) and great sustainibility. as for battery - if u have metal teeth on ur piston, and decent gears. and good wiring (stop overheating) then u can use a 9.6 (and if u a real bad man) 10.8 - 12. personally, 9.6 gives me all i need to be honest, and it doesnt do much more than an 8.4.

an 8.4 large with wellshimmed gears = possible sustainable 20+ rps.

[Imperial Fist]

I apologise for the thread revival, but since my project is exactly the same as the OP, I thought it would be better to post here.

 

I'm planning on refurbishing an old CA36(E) into an MG36 and I looked over a lot of threads on what to get etc. I'd like your inputs on the following please - so far I have:

 

CA36

CA36 nylon bipod

Element large capacity switch and wiring package for V3 GB

(I am suspicious of the original package as I heard there were problems)

Systema Magnum short motor for G36 et al (Torque)

Systema Area 1000 cylinder (just in case)

Modify Smooth Gears, High Speed

Element H type Hop spacer

Guarder clear silicon Hop rubber

Madbull V2 6.03mm Barrel for M16

 

Could you advise on a good piston/head I could source in the UK if needed? Otherwise all I was planning to use was the stock CA one...

 

Any help or advice would be most appreciated, although I would rather steer away from a LiPo, but am more than willing to listen to advice on MOSFETS if one is deemed necessary.

 

I just want to get the thing working for now - the ammo drum etc can come later!

 

Thanks for looking/any help!

 

IF.

[steaktipz]

After owning two SRC G36s, although they were Gen II, I have two things to say:

 

1. The hop up chamber, although full metal, has extremely low tolerances. (I'm assuming they haven't fixed this on the GEN III models) Even fully upgraded with a TBB and new bucking/spacer, your groupings won't even be close to as good as they should be. Also, since the SRC G36s use a proprietary hop-up and mag well, you'll need to replace both or modify the mag well for a new hop. From personal experience, I recommend spending $30 on a CA/E1 hop chamber and a JG/E1 magwell.

 

2. The green piston that came with both my SRC G36s is total garbage. I've heard stories of a black piston that used to come with them that was of decent quality, but both my green ones stripped as soon as springs higher than an m100 were introduced. (especially m120s) Once again, I'm assuming that this problem has not been addressed, since descriptions of the Gen IIIs don't say anything about a new stronger piston. Replace it ASAP; I recommend the G&P white piston, just file down a few teeth and AoE correct it.

 

Everything else, from the Nylon-Fiberglass body to the gears, shim job, bushings, etc., seems to be fantastic and provide one of the best bangs for your buck in the G36 market. I love my SRC G36 to death, but it just required some small mods to get it off the ground and running smoothly.

 

Just my two bits.

-Andrew