I.R. VFC M4A1 GBBR

[D-JHapyMeal]

Why dont you just use .43's?

Sure seems like the type of gun for that type of ammo!

[Guges Mk3]

For the simple reason that I don't have any, never did order any and I have yet to find any good .43's.

[D-JHapyMeal]

Madbull????????

[Guges Mk3]

I may have to slide some in on the next order.

[Bane]

Finally got my hands on one of these monsters

 

Build quality is impressive, solid, sturdy and reliable

 

Aside from a minor crack on bolt where the retention key goes (VFC replaced free of charge) no major manufacturing issues

 

 

Barrel and hop were wobbly and didnt fit properly, chrono reading before a simple fix was between 340 and 370 FPS, quite a wild variation. After inspecting the source i found the barrel/hopup misalign, which also meant due to the hop design that as the rifle fired the hop unit would "Self adjust" to a point.

 

Using plumbers tape to seal the bucking and build up barrel area fixed the barrel firmly into the hop unit.

 

Also, while i had the barrel out i measured it with my gauges i made up at work, It fits a 6.02 guage, the 6.03 guage doesent fit. God knows if this is a lucky shot or standard, but its factory fitted with a 6.02 tightbore barrel.

 

With the hop mod done the FPS tightened up to 420-425 on 0.2's, propane, zero cooldown

 

Have noticed on the field the rifle has a DEFINITE, and VERY distinct "Crack" to the firing, almost like a .22 going off.

 

on .28 SRC BB's its reaching out to 70m easily.

Edited September 28, 2010 by Bane

[danielsilva]

BTW Socom Gear M4 Gas Blow Back Rifle (Stag x Magpul),

 

http://redwolfairsoft.com/redwolf/airsoft/Gas_Pistols_SMGs_Socom_Gear_Socom_Gear_M4_Gas_Blow_Back_Rifle_Stag_x_Magpul_BLACK_font_color_red_Pre_Order_font.htm

[3vi1-D4n]

Anyone noticed that the hop up is inconsistent ? Mine on 0.25g is doing straight...straight....high....low...low...high...straight...low....etc...

 

Usually starts off shooting straight then just randomly changes. FPS doesn't drop a lot from the first round so I don't know exactly why it is happening.

 

Though it is shooting very nice groupings at 15m, beyond that the hop issues affect it.

[D-JHapyMeal]

Anyone noticed that the hop up is inconsistent ? Mine on 0.25g is doing straight...straight....high....low...low...high...straight...low....etc...

 

Usually starts off shooting straight then just randomly changes. FPS doesn't drop a lot from the first round so I don't know exactly why it is happening.

 

Though it is shooting very nice groupings at 15m, beyond that the hop issues affect it.

 

 

Clean inner barrel and lube all the internals.

Try again after that.

[3vi1-D4n]

I did that, degreased all the plastic and rubber bits of the barrel with detergent. Didn't help.

 

Though in saying that, previous owner used green gas in the mags so that could be the cause of the issue.

Edited November 4, 2010 by 3vi1-D4n

[Bane]

Dan

 

The VFC's run propane perfect, you'll find the problem will be between the barrel and the hopup, use teflon tape to secure it properly and prevent any wobble, the VFC design of hop any wobble between the barrel and hop leads to the hop self-adjusting per shot

 

Also i replaced the barrel extension/chamber with a G&P one which had a slightly snugger fit.

 

The VFC hop has more than plenty of adjustment in it so you shouldnt have to do the AGM mod to the bucking to give it more movement, if your not getting enough hop look at the barrel alignment.

[3vi1-D4n]

Hop is fine, there was plenty of hop. There has been no oil in the barrel either as I cleaned it out before. I only use propane.

 

The hop also does not self-adjust, 3 mags worth and I painted the level onto the barrel and adjuster and it was fine.

 

To determine the issue with the inconsistency, I figured I would start swapping bits first, so I replaced the V-hop rubber in there with a generic Chinese AEG hop rubber and it no longer has the inconsistencies. No telfon required.

 

Since the hop up is now consistent, I also found that mine veers off to the left because the barrel/hop unit is slightly tilted to the left. This is a factory defect in the manufacture of the hop unit. I filed off a little from the hop unit plastic alignment nub that secures it to the breech face/barrel extension/chamber, and rotated it back, it is now hopping straight.

 

The breech face is loose but isn't wobbly so I left it as is.

 

However I noticed the outer barrel is a 2 piece design and the outer barrel wobbles even with the grub screws tightened. This resulted in frequent split groups 1-2cm apart at 6m range. It is because there is a small amount of space between the barrel joint and the outer barrel, so a sliver of coke can aluminium eliminated the wobble and allowed better accuracy.

 

I also chopped down the inner barrel from the 363mm to a 250mm and the power has now gone down from 400fps to 355fps with a 0.25g. This is in preparation to a steel 10.5" outer barrel I ordered from VFC.

 

To compensate for the lack of power, I removed the original flute valve and replaced it with a aluminium system 7 valve for better kick and more consistent power, it is now shooting at 365-370fps, with substantially better kick than the original. LOL I don't need to buy a KSC M4 now.

 

I then installed a LaRue 9" rail onto this with a steel barrel nut.

Edited November 4, 2010 by 3vi1-D4n

[danielsilva]

Well i'll be buying this one just for kicks and testing. Can someone make a compatibility list ? Like what aftermarket parts fit ( wa vs ino receivers, if it fits ra-tech or ino bcg's ect ) ?

 

Which inner does the VFC use ? WA type ?

 

Thank you very much-o.

Edited November 4, 2010 by danielsilva

[3vi1-D4n]

BC: The regular WA BC doesn't fit 100%. Its an Inokatsu length BC which means the receiver "should" be inokatsu/RS sized. RA tech bolts may fit if its the Ino version not the WA/G&P/AGM version.

 

Bolt: It looks to be a modified WA Bolt, but with a few differences.

- Its thickened at the rear at the rear to minimise the famous WA bolt break. T

- The bolt face/faux lugs are a 2 piece affair with the locking lugs being metal while nozzle is plastic.

- The flute valve is a totally different design from anything else, but very efficient and sits inside a WA style flute valve stopper.

- The Bolt innards do not take a WA flute valve spring, as the headspace in there is very limited.

 

Receiver: As above

 

Outer Barrel: Thats a tricky one. Its the same dimension as a WA, BUT the VFC hop unit does not fit inside the barrel. One will need a WA hop unit and inner barrel to fit a WA style outer barrel.

 

Inner Barrel: It uses regular AEG inner barrels and hop up rubber.

 

Trigger: From looking at it, the hammer is definately different from WA, so does the semi-auto sear but the semi-auto sear is widened and resembles RS parts.

 

Bolt catch: not compatible with WA.

 

Charging handle: Takes RS cocking handles unlike the Ino or Viper.

 

Mags: RS mags fit well, so magwell dimensions are RS.

 

 

TBH The VFC is closer to an RS than all the other WA platforms but has maintained compatibility with AEG and WA parts enough to have varied options. And with steel triggers and steel barrels (all available from VFC, the VFC M4 is probably as close to a RS as one will get.

Edited November 4, 2010 by 3vi1-D4n

[danielsilva]

Thx for teh info Dan. Most likely i will have to buy it from Germany and cause of that it will be semi only, i don't know what part they modify to achieve that yet but will have to replace that part down the road.

It seems i'll need somehow to source parts from VFC in Europe or wait until i get it to check which parts are compatible with what.

 

It's gonna be my first WA-esque buy for ages ( i had a Ino a while back but was given to me ), it better work at least acceptably or else i'll throw it down the toilet.

[3vi1-D4n]

The selector, or the semi-auto sear would be the ones they would have modded, and if they are really picky they would also remove the auto hammer release sear as well (but that would mean there would be a hole above the selector). If they are ultra-Clinton then the BCG would be shaved off so it never hits the auto hammer release sear.

 

Well I switched over to VFC because my 9 WE M4 mags 5 have leaked and is now irrepairable, while 4 are left. The WE works ok 90% of the time, that 10% is when its in the thick of a firefight, while the 90% its at a range.

 

The VFC had some reports of bolts breaking but VFC has pleadged to replace all broken BCG so thats a good thing.

 

VFC seems to be the best choice atm because:

 

- Rifle is cheap

- Kicks ok with the default valve. With the system 7 valve I installed there is a lot more kick and lot less gas wastage.

- Bolt looks reinforced. A good sign.

- Mags are cheap, don't leak, and without the fiddly valve locking bits that destroy WA bolts, plus only one manufacturer so I don't have to find the right mag with the right power output etc.

- Takes aftermarket RS cocking handles and buffers

- Steel triggers are available

- Looks to be Inokatsu and Viper/JDT BCG compatible

- AEG inner barrel combatible

- WA outer barrel somewhat compatible

- Half decent finish on the receiver, Receiver is RS sized.

 

The power is much much lower than my tuned WE M4 CQBR but I can live with that so long it can penetrate sufficient foliage. I will be testing this out in a weeks time in some jungle type terrain so we will see.

Edited November 4, 2010 by 3vi1-D4n

[danielsilva]

- Rifle is cheap

- Half decent finish on the receiver, Receiver is RS sized.

 

^ The only reasons i considered buying the VFC. I don't have any issues with my WE M4's and since i bought the newest mags none of them had leaks ( i opened one and noticed that the seal was somehow "fused" with the mag, they now apply something that fuses the seal with the mag. Good for sealing the mag but if you need or want to open the mag the seal is gone ).

All my 3 M4/M16 use custom hopup units ( 1 aeg, 2 VSR type ones) so the hop-up is not an issue to me and they all work just fine. But even so i've been playing with the M14 lately and can't be happier with it.

 

I just like to at least try every GBBR know to man ( altough most of them just stay here at home for a few weeks since they are just loans from a local shop ) and this VFC just has the right amount/ratio of low cost and quality enough for me to actually buy it

[3vi1-D4n]

LOL yeah. I am half way doing that now, trying to collect as many GBBR and GBB SMG.

 

It is "cheap" enough with the right quality so yeah give it a go. But if I was recommending something skirmishable and 100% durable OOTB I would probably tell you to get a Viper.

 

But I think for open bolt types will never have the same power output as the WE close bolt. But I don't mind sacrificing penetration and "reach" for a little more accuracy and reliability. WE with a stinger hop isn't that accurate anyways.

 

In saying that the VFC is on a trial period. It might fail this trial period as we know it. So I will watch and see. Already I noted that hop alignment, hop rubber, and outer barrel assembly has affect its performance. The next test will be the Bolt carrier (as this is a 1st gen VFC M4 so I am expecting fracturing BCGs).

Edited November 5, 2010 by 3vi1-D4n

[danielsilva]

Yeah the open bolt won't have the same power output but i wouldn't want it anyway ( my WE M16 has a maximum power of >700fps with it's external power ), heck even the open bolt has too many fps ( my M14 clocks in at 450~500 fps with Guarder Powerful Gas ).

 

Anyway i'm curious to how this VFC will perform in the reliability department. How is the gas efficiency ? How many shots per mag ?

[3vi1-D4n]

LOL, yeah FPS is high but its good.

 

In the bush games I have, no one I skirmish with seems to complain getting hit even though engagement ranges are nearly point blank with 450-500fps guns. Thats because everyone goes real caps on their rifles, so if you get hit you deserve it. And if you get hit by an MG then you are just unlucky to get hit by well positioned grazing fire.

 

Take those same guns out to a public meatgrinder game and people either complains before they are hit cos they freak out and go "think of the children/my soon-to-be-bruised unskilled ego/*albatross*", or are hit and then complain they are hit by a hi-powered rifle at 60m away because they are too silly to take cover.

 

Basically you can't win in the FPS thing. I prefer my weapons to shoot through bush rather than spam through bush, so I avoid public games where players don't take cover and can't follow instructions.

 

But yup I will go and test it as soon as I get home

Edited November 5, 2010 by 3vi1-D4n

[SDU_Phil]

Hi 3vi1-D4n

 

Wo9uld you happen to know how to assemble the flute valve / bolt? I bought a few sets as extras but cant figure out how it should be assembled (I don't have one for reference).

 

Also you mentioned replacing the flute valve with a system 7 one, where did yo uget it?? Do system 7's all use the same one or model specific?

 

Thanks

[3vi1-D4n]

The disassembly is as follows:

 

1) Behind the bolt, there is a C-ring. Remove the C ring

2) Remove the bolt retainer piece off the side of the bolt, push the rear side of it out with a small screw driver

3) Pull out the bolt

4) Knock out the pin that sits on the side, near the top rear part of the extracted bolt.

5) Pull out the blowback stem

6) Use a small screwdriver to push the flute valve out from the front.

 

Done.

 

Reassembly is as follows:

 

1) Put the spring onto the flute valve.

2) Put the flute valve onto the flute valve stopper

3) Put the flute valve stopper onto the blowback stem

4) Push it into the bolt from the rear

5) Knock in the pin that sits on the top rear sides of the bolt that secures the blowback stm

6) Put bolt into BCG

7) Put the bolt retainer into the side of the bolt

8) Secure the rear part of the bolt, where the firing pin would go, and fix that part with the C-ring.

 

Done.

 

System 7 has a few types.

 

- KSC made the plastic variant before they called it system 7 (they are on the glocks and SIG P226s).

- Then KSC made the aluminium type:

* On the M9s and pistols etc

* On the MP7

 

Dimensionally the Plastic ones their diameter is larger than the MP7 ones, so they are incompatible. I haven't taken the aluminium pistol ones apart as yet (ain't broke don't fix).

 

From experience.

 

You CAN transplant the plastic system 7 valves onto the Marui designed pistols and WE open bolt GBBs and get 10-20fps increase. This requires an appropriate replacement flute valve spring (NOT an upgrade version of the spring).

 

You CAN transplant an aftermarket KSC Glock valve in place of the plastic system 7 valve.

 

You CAN transplant the aluminium MP7 valves onto the WA/AGM/G&P/VFC M4 GBBRs to get an extra 10-20fps. Not sure about pistols

 

You CANNOT transplant the aluminium MP7 valves onto the WE open bolt GBBRs or Marui designed pistol

 

Here is the link to an MP7 flute valve:

 

http://www.wgcshop.com/wgc2008/main/product_detail1.php?search_From=searchItem&item=SD-PT-S729&search=special&rs=valve&catid=&cat=

 

Here is the link to a Glock flute valve:

 

http://www.wgcshop.com/wgc2008/main/product_detail1.php?search_From=searchItem&item=SD-PT-S715&search=special&rs=valve&catid=&cat=

 

 

 

Hi 3vi1-D4n

 

Wo9uld you happen to know how to assemble the flute valve / bolt? I bought a few sets as extras but cant figure out how it should be assembled (I don't have one for reference).

 

Also you mentioned replacing the flute valve with a system 7 one, where did yo uget it?? Do system 7's all use the same one or model specific?

 

Thanks

Edited November 5, 2010 by 3vi1-D4n

[vilerk]

The stock metal flute valve of my KSC Glock fits in my AGM nozzle, but the front stem part is too big and doesn't fit in the nozzle tip part. Is the System 7 valve different in the VFC? Length of the valve would be appreciated.

[vilerk]

Alright, so I dremmeled part of the fins off so I could use a WA valve spring. Works perfectly, and the blowback and FPS was noticeably faster than before. Gas effiecny seems about the sane or a little better.

[3vi1-D4n]

I haven't had a chance to properly test rounds per mag, but I emptied 2 mags worth of BBs with no issues on a single charge of gas.

 

I also Did the nasty and tested:

 

- VFC upper onto an RS lower. It fit, including the pins, etc. But the hammer will not pull back.

- RS upper onto the VFC lower. It fits only without the RS bolt as it was designed for the VFC bolt.

- RS Recoil buffer and spring into the VFC. It cycles, but runs out of gas after 10 rounds.

- VFC cocking handle onto the RS. It works, but wouldn't chance it more than a few rounds as the RS handle is much more solid.

- RS mags onto the VFC lower. It fits but firing pin gets in the way so it doesn't hold the mag. Mag dimensions are the same as the RS with no wobbles.

 

 

So yeah...in all purposes the VFC is nearly 1:1 size with the RS, though the feel of the receiver on the RS seems more solid/

Edited November 14, 2010 by 3vi1-D4n

[Amadem]

WGC Shop offers Custom version of M4 VFC:

Reduced Trigger Pull, Reduced Hammer Stroke Reduced magazine valve flow, resulting approx. 1.4-1.5 J muzzle energy ( Approx. 380-400 FPS with 0.2g BBs ) Limited recoil spring & buffer travel for fast response

 

So internal parts may be compatible with other GBBR(like Hammer Spring)?

Edited November 23, 2010 by Amadem