"The Gun" that changed the world

[jotohomomoto]

I thought that you guys would find this book/interview as interesting as I did. I haven't read the book (yet) but I listened to the Fresh Air interview (totally dropped what I was doing to listen) and then thought, I bet people on Arnies would appreciate this subject. So here yah go.

 

here is the interview:

http://www.npr.org/player/v2/mediaPlayer.html?action=1&t=1&islist=false&id=130493013&m=130514041

 

 

the author's website:

http://cjchivers.com/

 

I parused the book at Barnes&Noble, and it is quite a thick book. There is a general history of machine guns, firearms and the M16. This is definately an exhaustive text.

 

[creepingfear]

Link appeas dead.

 

Without reading the book and not sure if it mentions it, I'd say it was the MP44, the AK47's Daddy, that changed the world.

[Seraphim989]

If we're going to be technical Id say the STG44 set the stage for the AK47, which actually spread around the world killing loads of people. Then again, almost as many SKSs and Mosin Nagants have been used in conflicts as AKs, at least for the first several decades of its existence

[cazboab]

The mp44 and stg 44 are pretty much the same thing and they can't have changed the world that much, or I'd be typing this in German.

[mattmanic]

Instead you're typing in Russian?

[Jagdraben]

Read the book and it becomes clear why the author says it has changed the world.

 

Simply put, it is a combination of factors, not just the weapons' concept. It is the design, the numbers produced, &c. The Russians may have simply copied a German concept, but the StG-44 and its predessesors have not been in widespread use for 65 years. The Kalashnikov, is in use on every continent and in nearly every country on earth. Modified versions are still produced in Finland, Israel, South Africa, Russia, Venezuela, &c.

[jotohomomoto]

Link appeas dead.

 

Without reading the book and not sure if it mentions it, I'd say it was the MP44, the AK47's Daddy, that changed the world.

 

the interview link is dead? you gotta let it load for a second and there is an ad to get through then voila!!!

I was reading the book today in the bookstore and he starts it off with Dr. Gatling and his quest to make the first machine gun. The AK changed the world b/c of how it was produced, distributed and its symbolic value throughout the world.

EVERYONE knows what that banana magazine is!

[Counting Count]

EVERYONE knows what that banana magazine is!

 

Unless your a lazy hack... the AK is an iconic weapon, however it must be said that it is a LINE of weapons not just one.

[ED-SKaR]

Mp18 lead the way in personal full auto capability, lead to by massive use of artiliary diminishing the use of bolt action rifles and encouraging close range combat.

 

But this argument has many sides

[heavri]

M1 changed world!

[magic_golem]

This argument does have many sides mine would be that if were talking about 'THE GUN' that changed the world, I think that the electron gun wins.

[Moriquende]

I disagree.

 

The wheellock changed the world.

[jotohomomoto]

Unless your a lazy hack... the AK is an iconic weapon, however it must be said that it is a LINE of weapons not just one.

 

true that....perhaps Kalashnikov would be a better general term.

 

the author found kalashnikovs used in afghanistan from the original plant in Izkstan(sp?) from 1954 in 2010.... however Mr Potatohead-ed out it might have been.

[ED-SKaR]

I disagree.

 

The wheellock changed the world.

 

The wheel lock was so amazing it almost killed off firearms.

[Cyber Soldier]

You want a gun that had massive impact on the shape of the world today? Two Words, Brown Bess.

[ED-SKaR]

You want a gun that had massive impact on the shape of the world today? Two Words, Brown Bess.

 

 

Just a shame that "brown bess" is almost as generic as "AK". Several guns from different gunmakers held the nickname at different points.

[Cyber Soldier]

Just a shame that "brown bess" is almost as generic as "AK". Several guns from different gunmakers held the nickname at different points.

True but like the AK the design, production, use and symbolic value is what really matters

[ED-SKaR]

True but like the AK the design, production, use and symbolic value is what really matters

 

 

So its not the gun itself that changed the world (brown bess, or AK) its the IDEA, that changes the world.

[Jagdraben]

Finished reading this, yesterday. (Picked it up on Friday.)

 

I thought it was pretty good. The history of 'rapid fire' was pretty interesting, covering the rise and fall of Gatling and the rise of Maxim. I didn't like how it skipped around, as after Maxim it goes straight to Kalashnikov. Federov is briefly covered and dismissed, which seems fair. After they start with Kalashnikov, they jump back to the German's first tinkering with moderate power cartridges in select fire weapons in the 30's and then they get around to mentioning the MkB42, MP43, and StG44.

 

Anyway, the history of development of the AK is quite interesting, as the author digs deeper than the oft-repeated Kalashnikov legend that seems to be taken at face value by the American gun press. The author then contrasts this with the way the AR-15 and M16 was developed... and no one comes away from that looking very good, except the grunts on the ground in Vietnam, living with their jam-o-matic early M16s. It also marks what I feel is one of the few efforts to objectively categorize the cause and type of malfunctions that the M16 suffered from. In any case, the NRA, the American gun press, Colt, and DoD are all held partially accountable for the M16's short-comings.

 

After that, the author gives us a look at the international illicit firearms market and how the AK has spread sinces its introduction to criminal groups, rebel militias, and repressive regimes. It shows how the AK with its excellent reliability and rust-resistance has enabled it to survive for decades at a time, changing hands and theaters of war as one nation or region is stabilized and another is destabilized. It wraps up with the note that the AK will only stop having a significant effect when all or most of them are worn out or destroyed, a process the author predicts may take a century and a brief note explaining that the M16 of today is largely free of the problems it had in the mid-60's.

 

I didn't like how much of the author's focus appeared to have been on the evil men who have used the AK, although I do suppose that could be due to the simple fact that good men with guns only change the world when confronted with evil men with guns. Nevertheless, the use of the AK for good is ignored... although, I suppose we shouldn't expect better, as despite the author's career as a Marine officer of infantry, he was last an employee of the New York Times.

[Seraphim989]

Psha, its all about bronze, yo. Bustas rolling with them copper toys never even see me comin

[jotohomomoto]

Finished reading this, yesterday. (Picked it up on Friday.)

 

I thought it was pretty good. The history of 'rapid fire' was pretty interesting, covering the rise and fall of Gatling and the rise of Maxim. I didn't like how it skipped around, as after Maxim it goes straight to Kalashnikov. Federov is briefly covered and dismissed, which seems fair. After they start with Kalashnikov, they jump back to the German's first tinkering with moderate power cartridges in select fire weapons in the 30's and then they get around to mentioning the MkB42, MP43, and StG44.

 

Anyway, the history of development of the AK is quite interesting, as the author digs deeper than the oft-repeated Kalashnikov legend that seems to be taken at face value by the American gun press. The author then contrasts this with the way the AR-15 and M16 was developed... and no one comes away from that looking very good, except the grunts on the ground in Vietnam, living with their jam-o-matic early M16s. It also marks what I feel is one of the few efforts to objectively categorize the cause and type of malfunctions that the M16 suffered from. In any case, the NRA, the American gun press, Colt, and DoD are all held partially accountable for the M16's short-comings.

 

After that, the author gives us a look at the international illicit firearms market and how the AK has spread sinces its introduction to criminal groups, rebel militias, and repressive regimes. It shows how the AK with its excellent reliability and rust-resistance has enabled it to survive for decades at a time, changing hands and theaters of war as one nation or region is stabilized and another is destabilized. It wraps up with the note that the AK will only stop having a significant effect when all or most of them are worn out or destroyed, a process the author predicts may take a century and a brief note explaining that the M16 of today is largely free of the problems it had in the mid-60's.

 

I didn't like how much of the author's focus appeared to have been on the evil men who have used the AK, although I do suppose that could be due to the simple fact that good men with guns only change the world when confronted with evil men with guns. Nevertheless, the use of the AK for good is ignored... although, I suppose we shouldn't expect better, as despite the author's career as a Marine officer of infantry, he was last an employee of the New York Times.

 

WOW, fast reader!! I'm reading a chapter or two at a time AT the bookstore (in the coffeeshop). This is a thick book but it sounds like a nice history lesson for gun enthusiasts like myself and others on this forum. I haven't even got to the point where he starts talking about the kalashnikov proper.