Baddbaz Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2798632/gun-owners-fear-new-crimestoppers-line-public-alert-police-neighbours-firearms-lead-law-abiding-citizens-branded-terrorists.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490 Also heard on the radio today( Lbc) an interveiw with a police commander . Stating that replica and antique firearms have new legislation Which stops any one with a sentence , suspended or not of 3 months or more from owning any replica or antique firearms . Not sure if this is going to be retrospective or new convictions only !! . . Am still trying to find all the relevant new legislation information . But am wondering if replica includes Airsoft guns ?? Link to post Share on other sites
TheFull9 Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 Ah yes, the good old Daily MFail website. Consistent source of sound, not-at-all-hyped, unbiased, thought out, intelligent journalistic integrity; and not a sign of click bait in sight. Link to post Share on other sites
Baddbaz Posted November 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 If you read my post you would have seen that it was announced this morning by a police commander on Lbc radio to coincide with the police gun amnesty that is being put in place for this month . He stated new laws and guidlines that stop any one with a conviction of more than 3 months , including suspended sentences From owning imitation , de acts or antique firearms . As well as standard firearms . Also stated that after the amnesty they would be clamping down on anyone breaching these new October guidlines / laws . The crimstoppers phone line is just part of it . Am going to my gun club this weekend , a lot of police go / train there . So hopefully I can find out some more details on this !! Link to post Share on other sites
Baddbaz Posted November 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/firearms-law-guidance-to-the-police-2012 This is all I can find on the new updates for firearms this yeAr . Apparently in June and October new additions have been updated / added . .havnt had time to scour through it yet ! Link to post Share on other sites
FireKnife Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 To be honest, wooopeeee /sarcasm. It will not be enforced and no-one will care, just like all these other changes that happen but are just there to make readers of such tosh as the Daily Mail feel better about there worthless little lives that the rest of us just ignore and get on with. 'FireKnife' Link to post Share on other sites
jammie654 Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 LOL, Using Daily Fail as a source..... Link to post Share on other sites
Baddbaz Posted November 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 Using Lbc radio as a source if you actually read my post properly Link to post Share on other sites
Baddbaz Posted November 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 https://www.gov.uk/firearms-licensing-police-guidance There is also a section covering replica weapons And low powered air weopons that has been updated from June 2014 . Which now mentions the 1.3 joules for power limits etc Link to post Share on other sites
Azubi Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 I can understand the concern of hunters, to be targetted by animal rights activists with an axe to grind. I don't expect to see a whole section of responsible firearm users to be affected by this though. Neighbours aren't all of a sudden over night going to think that Brian next door who does F class is a terrorist. Link to post Share on other sites
ED-SKaR Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 So what is the truth of this and how does it affect the average airsofter? It seems the biggest change is that those with a criminal record now can't buy replicas of any nature and that the 1.3 joule is now official. Link to post Share on other sites
abbadon101 Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 Using Lbc radio as a source if you actually read my post properly And that makes it more reliable? Link to post Share on other sites
jal3 Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 https://www.gov.uk/firearms-licensing-police-guidance There is also a section covering replica weapons And low powered air weopons that has been updated from June 2014 . Which now mentions the 1.3 joules for power limits etc Do you mean this? https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/363016/Guidance_on_Firearms_Licensing_Law_v10_-_Oct_2014.pdf 2.4 ‘Lethality’ is not defined in legislation, but the Firearms Consultative Committee in its Eleventh Annual Report recommended that any barrelled weapon with a muzzle energy of 1 joule or more should be considered lethally barrelled. However, this is a complex issue and, although case law exists (Moore v Gooderham (1960)), only a court can decide whether a particular weapon is capable of causing a lethal injury and would therefore be considered a firearm for the purposes of the Acts. Providers of forensic science services will be able to advise in any case where ‘lethality’ is likely to be an issue. Firearms law also covers some other weapons, including stun guns and CS, which are prohibited items under the terms of section 5 of the 1968 Act (see Chapter 3 for further information). 2.5 Testing has been conducted by the Forensic Science Service on the actual lethality thresholds for airsoft BB 6 mm plastic pellets (0.2 grams). This work has become necessary in the light of the Violent Crime Reduction Act since a greater focus has been given to differentiating between realistic imitation firearms (often used for airsoft skirmishing) and firearms above the lethality threshold that would fall to be considered low powered airguns (or Section 5 (1) (a) prohibited weapons if capable of fully automatic fire). 2.6 Based on that work, we think it is safe to conclude that fully automatic airsoft guns operating at 1.3 joules or less and single shot (or semi automatic) airsoft guns operating at 2.5 joules or less would not engage the lethality threshold crossing over into stricter controls under the Firearms Act. This would mean that airsoft firearms that are also realistic imitation firearms operating at or below these thresholds would, nonetheless, not be required to be sold by a Registered Firearms Dealer but that the other control provisions provided by the Violent Crime Reduction Act would apply. Please note that this has not yet been tested by the courts. Link to post Share on other sites
FireKnife Posted November 10, 2014 Report Share Posted November 10, 2014 So the limit would be set to 1.3 for full auto and 2.5 for semi? Erm, haven't we been below both of those at every single official site in the UK since airsoft started? So to answer this: So what is the truth of this and how does it affect the average airsofter? It is being 'looked at' and *fruitcage* all. 'FireKnife' Link to post Share on other sites
Baddbaz Posted November 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2014 So what is the truth of this and how does it affect the average airsofter? It seems the biggest change is that those with a criminal record now can't buy replicas of any nature and that the 1.3 joule ###### is now official. From what the police where saying on the radio today it is not just buying that a criminal record outlaws , it is also owning as well . That is what they have stArted an amnesty for , it gives any owners a chance to hand their guns without prosecution if the change in laws directly affects them . Link to post Share on other sites
ED-SKaR Posted November 10, 2014 Report Share Posted November 10, 2014 Erm, haven't we been below both of those at every single official site in the UK since airsoft started? I've heard of a few sites that ran over 380fps for certain full auto weapons. Mainly support guns with a given MED. Plus there are a lot of over 380FPS AEGs that are used as DMRs but haven't necessarily had full auto removed due to the inherent semi auto lockup issues of slower cycling AEGs. Link to post Share on other sites
jal3 Posted November 10, 2014 Report Share Posted November 10, 2014 People should read carefully the entire text and understand what it is. It is not the law. It's a guideline on how to interpret the law. It's a actually a very sober and well written text, especially considering the source. They clearly outline what they know, what they don't know, and whos judgement (test data) they're relying on. Whenever someone asks "hey what's the law?" give them that bit. It's currently the very best summary of how the law is interpretted (i say, sitting here as an armchair expert outside UK). I for one knows that it takes a lot more than 1,3J FA to kill someone. Complete skin penetration happens at around 2,5J IME, and that's just that, skin penetration. At 3J+ we start seeing some not very fun skull fractures, but people will survive. The "staggered shots" possibility is wank. It does not happen. BB's spread at distance, and close up things go so fast that that bb's don't hit the same spot. Have never ever had or seen staggered BB marks. Stippled close together, sure, but never on top. I'm not saying there's a burning need for people to shoot each other up with 3J auto rifles in CQB, nono, but maybe you'd want more than M100 everywhere outdoors. You can just adjust MED to correspond. M120 is only 6-8M MED more before it's down to M100, but it's a lot more fun outdoors. Or even M140 Auto with 15M MED. "Lethal" can be looked up in a dictionary. Airsoft weapons does not fit the description of "likely to cause death". The most likely death from an airsoft weapon, is if someone wacks you in the head with the buttstock. Link to post Share on other sites
TheFull9 Posted November 10, 2014 Report Share Posted November 10, 2014 People should read carefully the entire text and understand what it is. On the internet??? Oh you. Link to post Share on other sites
jal3 Posted November 10, 2014 Report Share Posted November 10, 2014 I know, silly me. Link to post Share on other sites
paranoiddroid Posted November 11, 2014 Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 Lethal in uk law doesn't mean death though. Likely to cause serious injury is the standard Link to post Share on other sites
Baddbaz Posted November 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 If its powerfull enough to take an eye out or break the skin it comes under lethal in the uk Link to post Share on other sites
heroshark Posted November 11, 2014 Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 Well if lethal is taking an eye out surely many guns are already lethal. What always gets me is its only the power that's considered to distinguish a weapons lethality completely disregarding the weight of the rnd . Link to post Share on other sites
FireKnife Posted November 11, 2014 Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 By that logic everything is 'lethal' as I am sure with enough application anything could break the skin bar tissue paper. Perhaps you are mixing up the general term of 'lethal' with ones like intent or application of an item, such as a baseball bat, it is only when brandished in a violent manner that it can be considered a 'deadly weapon' or 'lethal. Everything has the potential to be lethal but given that lethal is defined as either 'can cause death' or 'very harmful or destructive', that could be given to anything with the wrong application. However in UK law they would see less of a need to categorise such things, I mean it has taken them this long to even look at setting limits and airsoft has been around in the UK for a good long while now. 'FireKnife' Link to post Share on other sites
jal3 Posted November 11, 2014 Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 "Lethal" and "lethality" are two different things. I know it can be confusing because the words appear similar. Lethal means it is likely to cause death. Lethality is the name for the "unit" in which you measure how likely something is to cause death. The lethality of the mousepad next to me is very low. The keyboard is somewhat higher, it weights more. Could hit someone with it. A grenade has a way higher lethality because you can pull the pin and it'll explode. A grenade with the pin pulled has an even higher lethality. Notice how "lethality" of all the objects can be measured, but only the grenade is what people would call "lethal". Also read point 2.4 in the earlier quote.... "2.4 ‘Lethality’ is not defined in legislation, but the Firearms Consultative Committee in its Eleventh Annual Report recommended that any barrelled weapon with a muzzle energy of 1 joule or more should be considered lethally barrelled. However, this is a complex issue and, although case law exists (Moore v Gooderham (1960)), only a court can decide whether a particular weapon is capable of causing a lethal injury and would therefore be considered a firearm for the purposes of the Acts. Providers of forensic science services will be able to advise in any case where ‘lethality’ is likely to be an issue. Firearms law also covers some other weapons, including stun guns and CS, which are prohibited items under the terms of section 5 of the 1968 Act (see Chapter 3 for further information). " Link to post Share on other sites
Skarclaw Posted November 11, 2014 Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 Good news I think (although as an FAC holder I am concerned but OT) Should it ever come to it you'd have a hard time getting out of importing a hot AEG though. Link to post Share on other sites
jal3 Posted November 11, 2014 Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 I wonder if a nailgun is a lethal weapon. I mean, in the sense of the law. No doubt it actually is. Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.