doc_newstead Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Ha! I was thinking the same thing, but then I thought "If you can't say something nice..." Link to post Share on other sites
Diemaco Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 But on the other hand maybe it would be good. I do think it is a good idea but at the moment there is no need for it really, I mean they won't let you wear it in the British forces and if you are A PMC you don't wanna be wearing it becaus eyou'll stick out like a sore thumb in the sandbox. Link to post Share on other sites
doc_newstead Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 3 things bother me, and you can counter-point them if you want, but at least try and take them on board (has hideous flashback of unimatrix quoting about 12 people). First, it seems like this stuff was made to either prove a point, or just get Hyperstealth's name about a bit (and, of course, provide costumes for B-movies...). That's fair enough, but I always chuckle at those "Here I Am" photos, as it seems like the more useless a camo is, the more it has to be defended. How many "Here's me leaning on a mossy tree, at 11-11.30, in the shadow of a mountain, with the sun behind me" ARPAT photos have we seen? I don't look at camo through cameras, I use my eyes, and with existing patterns out there, I don't ever find myself hideously appalled at how much a camouflage uniform sticks out. Second, if this stuff is so hi-tech and well-concealed, what kit do you wear with it? If they've spent years running algorithms and field-tests to produce a camo so dazzling, am I expected to slap a solid great blob of Coyote Brown on top of it? Thirdly (and this is probably due to lack of research),what uniform are these items based on? I take it Canadian Forces, but what spec? Are these items windproof, waterproof, cold weather, temperate, teeth arms, reinforced, ripstop, barracks wear, etc? I don't care how well hidden I am at my next airsoft game if I can't feel my damn legs through cold. And I'm not being overly-critical either, I like reading about this. Nothing wrong with a bit of feedback I'd rather speak my mind and have it calmed, than nod acceptingly and end up ordering cr@p! What's your opinion as a military man, JKT? "Shut the Hell up Doc"? Link to post Share on other sites
Maple-Leaf Posted February 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Hey Doc - I always enjoy reading your posts. Even when you're trying to be provocative, you're still reasonable. First, it seems like this stuff was made to either prove a point, or just get Hyperstealth's name about a bit Yes - probably a bit of both. Second, if this stuff is so hi-tech and well-concealed, what kit do you wear with it? If they've spent years running algorithms and field-tests to produce a camo so dazzling, am I expected to slap a solid great blob of Coyote Brown on top of it? This is actually a very valid point. I'm sure that the current lack of any cordura nylon fabrics in these patterns - and therefore a lack of gear in these patterns - will stop some people from purchasing. On the other hand, I am 100% confident that once the uniforms are produced, tactical gear won't be far behind. Thirdly (and this is probably due to lack of research),what uniform are these items based on? I take it Canadian Forces, but what spec? These one's are actually based on the ACU design. The new model they've come out with (Spec4ce) is based on an improved version of the ACU. More info about this is on their website under the January 28th news release. Are these items windproof, waterproof, cold weather, temperate, teeth arms, reinforced, ripstop, barracks wear, etc? I don't care how well hidden I am at my next airsoft game if I can't feel my damn legs through cold. To be honest, this evaluation set is made from cotton material that is too thin to wear on its own in any other climate than quite warm. The production stuff will be made from material more akin to BDUs. What's your opinion as a military man, JKT? I think the camo designs (especially the next gen Spec4ce) are brilliant and I think the improved uniform design is pretty good - as a basic design. I want to see tactical gear in these patterns, I want to see combat smocks as an alternative to BDU/ACU shirts and I'd like to see a tougher version of combat trousers as an option to the BDU/ACU style as well. But all in all, I think they're on the right track and I'm sure that the rest will come. After all, they're winning enough military projects to keep the cash flowing... Link to post Share on other sites
ian@wca Posted February 24, 2006 Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 Cool pics!! Thanks for sharing. As far as Doc's comment about matching kit, I'm sure that all depends on how well this camo is received...doesn't seem like it would make much sense to release more gear with their patterns if nobody is buying it. Arggg I still want their "dark" urban camo, that would be perfect for night games...I hope they eventually release it to the public. Link to post Share on other sites
Misfit Posted February 24, 2006 Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 ian@wca - I doubt they'll release the Metro uniform to the public mate, but, we can always hope. Still waiting on my SpecAm Tropical.. can't wait to test it. Link to post Share on other sites
Maple-Leaf Posted February 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 ian@wca - I doubt they'll release the Metro uniform to the public mate That's true - it says very clearly on their website that its only for LE/military sales. You could always get the other civvie urban camo and run it through the washing machine with a bit of grey dye to darken it up.... As for kit - Flecktarn works okay with the HCD Woodland pattern, and I imagine CADPAT and MARPAT would work okay as well. Personally; its the Spec4ce Woodland and Spec4ce Forest patterns that I'm really looking forward to. Link to post Share on other sites
ian@wca Posted February 24, 2006 Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 That's true - it says very clearly on their website that its only for LE/military sales. You could always get the other civvie urban camo and run it through the washing machine with a bit of grey dye to darken it up....<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thats exactly what I was thinking (the dye)! We'll see. Also can you find any pics of their "Mountain" specam bdu's? I only see the one pic of the gun wrap. That color scheme looks really nice. Link to post Share on other sites
Misfit Posted February 24, 2006 Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 Thats exactly what I was thinking (the dye)! We'll see. Also can you find any pics of their "Mountain" specam bdu's? I only see the one pic of the gun wrap. That color scheme looks really nice. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think that might be part of Hyperstealth's SOPAT, I can't find any pictures of it, apart from that Weapon one, as you said. Hopefully JKT will have some pictures. Link to post Share on other sites
Guy Cramer Posted February 25, 2006 Report Share Posted February 25, 2006 I think that might be part of Hyperstealth's SOPAT, I can't find any pictures of it, apart from that Weapon one, as you said. Hopefully JKT will have some pictures. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> SOPAT is completely different from SpecAm and Spec4ce, you'll have to wait until May for details as I'm under a gag order on this until that time. SpecAm Mountain was not produced for the evaluation run, all photos you've seen of that pattern are simulations and we are planning on bringing it in for late 2006. I get about 4 calls per week from different groups wanting to make equipment out of SpecAm and Spec4ce, we are focused on the uniforms at this point as we have a commitment to the customers to provide a quality product line of uniforms, other items will come in due time. While a company like Crye has one pattern - they are able to focus on other products, we have 6 color schemes and 2 patterns to perfect on the uniforms and weapons vinyl coating before we move into matching gear - but it is coming. Sincerely, Guy Cramer Link to post Share on other sites
Misfit Posted February 25, 2006 Report Share Posted February 25, 2006 Ah, I see, thanks for clearing that up, Guy. Link to post Share on other sites
Maple-Leaf Posted February 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2006 we have 6 color schemes and 2 patterns to perfect on the uniforms and weapons vinyl coating before we move into matching gear - but it is coming. Rock on Guy! Link to post Share on other sites
doc_newstead Posted February 25, 2006 Report Share Posted February 25, 2006 God bless the Internet. It used to be you could chat to mates in the pub about something, and that was that. Now the the company director turns up and chips in Link to post Share on other sites
Wege Posted February 25, 2006 Report Share Posted February 25, 2006 Weapons Vinyl Coating? Anyone else take note of that for applications for airsoft? (tries to think of what else it would be applied to, apart from Vehicles.. ) Guy.. some interesting comments on Military Pics. And WD too on the Jordan 'job' too. Link to post Share on other sites
Guy Cramer Posted February 25, 2006 Report Share Posted February 25, 2006 Weapons Vinyl Coating? Anyone else take note of that for applications for airsoft? (tries to think of what else it would be applied to, apart from Vehicles.. ) Guy.. some interesting comments on Military Pics. And WD too on the Jordan 'job' too. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You will see an interesting application(s) of the vinyl camouflage in just a couple of weeks on our site –not on weapons or vehicles. Attached is a photo of an Airsoft SR-16 in SpecAm Tropical Vinyl (3M ScotchPrint)- not fully complete but enough to show the effect - took 60 minutes to get to this point. Should take another 30 minutes to complete but that is 30 minutes I don't have in my schedule at this point. Sincerely, Guy Link to post Share on other sites
navymp28 Posted February 25, 2006 Report Share Posted February 25, 2006 You will see an interesting application(s) of the vinyl camouflage in just a couple of weeks on our site –not on weapons or vehicles. Attached is a photo of an Airsoft SR-16 in SpecAm Tropical Vinyl (3M ScotchPrint)- not fully complete but enough to show the effect - took 60 minutes to get to this point. Should take another 30 minutes to complete but that is 30 minutes I don't have in my schedule at this point. Sincerely, Guy <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Man that is sick...and sexy...What would something like that run someone like me? I am digging that vinal coating. Link to post Share on other sites
Guy Cramer Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 Man that is sick...and sexy...What would something like that run someone like me? I am digging that vinal coating. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> We are still working the consumer price out as I only have a price for prototypes. Sincerely, Guy Link to post Share on other sites
Wege Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 Nice work Guy. Btw, interesting shots on the Building aspect too, but... I almost wonder why.... Oh well. Will check back on site in 2 weeks.s Navymp28...Sure.. every man and his RISd Dog will want a piece of this too, but patience will be the name of the game. I would prefer something to work 100% out of the box, than be a lot iffy (think MadBull and their 470box.. hopes!!!), and be a nuisance to apply. Just think of it: Some good stuff unlike Mossy Oak (grr) that can be applied and then REMOVED with minimal effects.. unlike paint on your pride and joy. (some of us don't care about that though.. ) Link to post Share on other sites
Maple-Leaf Posted February 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 I did a couple of sims of SPEC4CE Forest in typical UK woodland environments for Guy. I thought you guys might like to see them too: Link to post Share on other sites
Guy Cramer Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 Those sims are not Spec4ce but a SpecAm (Delta) version. Link to post Share on other sites
Maple-Leaf Posted February 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 Oooops, my bad. Link to post Share on other sites
Wege Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 Forest would be the better bet down here in NZ... as tasty looking as the Woodland is anyways. (referring to the website shots not the aforementioned pics above) Link to post Share on other sites
Maple-Leaf Posted February 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 Okay, here's the proper SPEC4CE Woodland sims.... Link to post Share on other sites
Guy Cramer Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 Forest would be the better bet down here in NZ... as tasty looking as the Woodland is anyways. (referring to the website shots not the aforementioned pics above) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Tropical might work better North of Taupo in the sub torpical regions. I traveled NZ from Russell to Christchurch in the South which is very similar to Vancouver, BC in forest look and geography. Guy Link to post Share on other sites
Monk Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 I have two issues with this stuff. First, for the games I've been to, the organizers will generally specify woodland for one team and desert for another. CADPAT vs. ARPAT doesn't really come up. Would there be enough difference? Everyone around here has woodland and desert. Not the same as with the latest funky digital stuff. Second, I believe it's been shown that humans adjust for what they expect to see. We've become accustomed to current camo patterns. Is digital currently more effective because it's new and not something our brains are trained to sort out from the background? Could we see a return to traditional patterns in a few years once digi is the standard? This is all just conjecture, but I think it's worth considering. Link to post Share on other sites
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