Is Propane Safe?

[W.K.Shuridys]

Is this thread for real? I'm more worried about a BB hitting me in the pecker than the gas in my pistol magazine.

 

Puhleeze.

[Almighty]

I'm sure if you asked an expert on flammable substances they'd tell you that carrying pressurised containers full of flammable liquids at high speeds, in close proximity to other such vessels, in a hazardous environment, is also an unsafe practice. we all do it though.

 

In cars.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your example is an over-simplification.. mostly for argument's sake. We all know that automobies are particularly engineered to (at least) minimize, if not eliminate, the dangers you just mentioned. Whereas the propane adapter may well be properly constructed to prevent leaks.. the whole point becomes moot when the user discharges the gas from his gun(s) anyway...

 

I would think those people would actually advise you to stop using "air soft guns" all together regardless of what powers the gun because it's always a safety concern.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I seriously doubt it. The PERC would only concern itself with the usage of propane as per its mandate and leave the other issue alone for other more appropriate agencies to resolve. That is the essence of compartmentalized and specialized function.

 

Thus far, everyone here is predictably posting knee-jerk reactions. I suggest you gentlemen take time to think about it...

[Hissing_Sid]

There's very little to think about.

 

I use a pressurised bottle of butane to fill a cigarette lighter which I carry around and use to light cigarettes.

 

I'm sure that little chain of events would be enough to give most health & safety people a hissy-fit.

 

In reality, it aint a big deal.

 

What is your actual point?

Are you trying to say that the AI propane adaptor isn't safe?

Are you saying that propane isn't safe?

Are you saying that propane isn't environmentally friendly?

[Ghost_Rider]

Dude, think for a second.

 

You basically came on and said 'Don't use propane, your mags can't take it'.

 

Everyone uses propane, and has done for years. I have never heard of a single incident of a magazine exploding.

 

However, you're entitled to your opinion, and to not use a gas pistol powered by propane. I personally think that the above missive from the propane research council is *albatross* covering of the first order, and I will continue to carry 10 gas filled magazines on my belt.

 

Such is freedom of choice. It is arrogance of the first order to asume that just because we do not share your opinion, that we are wrong.

 

Edit: A really good example of HSE gone mad. An assesor came round the auditorium at a theatre we work at, and insisted that becase the stage had a ten foot drop into the orchestra pit, then a barrier must be erected at all times.

[Thanatos]

Yes, Propane is dangerous. However so is every other chemical. Propane Specs. For all interested down the page is the VapourPressure gas. I don' t know what pressure gas mags run at, but propane is auto-combustable at 470C. I don't know where you play, but this is not obtainable. The seals will surely burst at over 100x atomsphere pressure. The only danger is the container bursting, and an ignition source for the propane. Not the propane itself will explode.

Propane bottles here in Canada all have pressure values that will blow before the container reaches maximum pressure, whereas duster and green gas bottles don't. I will keep using my safer propane containers over duster gas.

[Almighty]

Let's break it down:

Like a gas fired barbecue, or a blowtorch? 

No. A gas fired BBQ or a blowtorch does not release propane into the atmosphere - at least not in unburned state. It's no longer propane, and no longer as hazardous after it has burned. Didn't you know that?

 

This, to me, reads like *albatross*-covering. It prevents you blowing your hand off through stupidity and then suing the Propane research council for telling you it was ok.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Surprisingly.. you don't think the same or as much about the 1 joule limit...

[Gene]

I think it's more likely that I'd shoot myself with an airsoft gun, than I would have a propane can explode and cause me damage. Those are odds I'm willing to take for a hobby that is a gratifying as airsoft is. Mothers on the other hand may not feel the same way...

[Xaccers]

Ok lets think about it.

Millions of magazines have been filled with flamable gasses over the years.

Some in very hot conditions.

No one knows of any that have exploded.

There is no evidence that the internals of gas mags are not up to the job of holding the gas under normal usage conditions.

Nothing in the gun, even metal guns, moves with the ability to cause a sufficient spart to ignite the gas when fired.

 

Firing into a flame, emptying a mag into a flame, or throwing the gas can/mag/gun into a flame are not normal usage conditions, and no one in their right mind would do such a thing.

 

So, what exactly is the point of this thread again?

 

 

PS I'm also reminded of a certain Mythbusters episode with the exploding portaloo and methane.

As they demonstrated, and as any pyromaniac will tell you, you need the right concentrations of gas and air for ignition to take place.

Too much gas, and there's not enough oxygen to ignite, too much air and there's not enough gas to ignite.

[Hissing_Sid]

No.  A gas fired BBQ or a blowtorch does not release propane into the atmosphere - at least not in unburned state.  It's no longer propane, and no longer as hazardous after it has burned.  Didn't you know that?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So is that your angle? The environmental one?

 

So, propane or not, how do you feel about the thousands of plastic BBs we dispose of every weekend?

 

Come to think of it, do you use deoderant? Do you have an air conditioner? Do you drive a car?

[Ghost_Rider]

Surprisingly.. you don't think the same or as much about the 1 joule limit...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Erm.....yes I do.

 

I personally feel that the 1 joule rule is restrictive, and some of the sites I play at allow 500FPS sniper rifles and 1.35 joule AEG's. My M4 is upgraded to higher than 328.

 

I don't discuss such upgrades here because that is the rule for THIS forum, not the law.

 

The one joule rule, actually, is a perfect example of a HSE making a decision based on what is absolutely safe, rather than taking common sense into account.

 

Yes, 500fps into an unprotected eyeball will do a lot of damage, but that should never occur due to safeguards we put in place, such as goggles, engagement distances and the like.

 

Some regulatory body says gas mags explode. Common sense says that there has never been an incident of a mag filled with green gas exploding, ever.

 

Seems like a no-brainer to me.

[Almighty]

Dude, think for a second.

 

You basically came on and said 'Don't use propane, your mags can't take it'.

It was not me who said the mags cannot take propane. I had posted the PERC reply in full only because I don't want to be accused of editing it to suit my purpose. My only real issue was the release of unburned propane. It was Gendron who added their other concerns.

 

 

Everyone uses propane, and has done for years. I have never heard of a single incident of a magazine exploding.

 

However, you're entitled to your opinion, and to not use a gas pistol powered by propane. I personally think that the above missive from the propane research council is *albatross* covering of the first order, and I will continue to carry 10 gas filled magazines on my belt.

 

Such is freedom of choice. It is arrogance of the first order to asume that just because we do not share your opinion, that we are wrong.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Like I said, its all up to you... I did not say you were wrong, just that I am/was not. Unburned propane has inherent dangers, both immediate and/or cumulative. I have no issues regarding its containers, or handling.. only its release into open air. If you think that the council's position is a simple matter of *albatross*-covering, I say again, how come you don't think the same of your 1 joule limit?

[Ghost_Rider]

See above for my reply on the one joule, dude.

 

Don't ever assume what I think about something.

[Xaccers]

Hate to say this, but in a gas bbq or even a propane torch, not all of the propane combusts, so they're releasing unburnt porpane into the atmosphere too.

[Ghost_Rider]

Hate to say this, but in a gas bbq or even a propane torch, not all of the propane combusts, so they're releasing unburnt porpane into the atmosphere too.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

*engages smug mode*

[Gene]

Hate to say this, but in a gas bbq or even a propane torch, not all of the propane combusts, so they're releasing unburnt porpane into the atmosphere too.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Which is why my bbq still smells even when I'm done cooking

[HaVoC]

O RLY?

[Ghost_Rider]

Can someone tell me exactly what this dude's point is?

 

Q: Propane is bad and shouldn't be used in airsoft because ............

 

Answers on a postcard.

[Xaccers]

Almighty, what exactly is your issue with releasing unburnt propane (ie propane which hasn't been converted into that well known greenhouse gas CO2) into the atmosphere?

Is it safety, you think it will conbust and burn someone?

Is it environmental?

 

You've not been very clear on that point.

[Antagon]

I thought maybe it was the guy out of King Of The Hill.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Thats Hank Hill....and he sells propane and propane accessories.

 

Now wheres the paint drying committee...

[Shao14]

Like I said, its all up to you...  I did not say you were wrong, just that I am/was not.  Unburned propane has inherent dangers, both immediate and/or cumulative. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So we are talking about inherent dangers, eh? Sure, propane has inherent danger, especially if you shoot your GBB with green gas while holding a burning torch right next to it. What do you think about the "inherent danger" of airsoft itself excluding the gas guns? Of any sport? Even golf has inherent danger of someone being accidently hit by the club.

 

Your post of what the PERC says is appreciated, and you asked others opinion, and others have given their opinions to you with experience and other supporting argument. It's up to you to make your own decision and take your own risk.

[Almighty]

So is that your angle? The environmental one?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Again, no. My angle is safety. In otherwise unventilated areas or spaces, propane may collect in enough amount as to be a fire or inhalation hazard. Whereas it is argued that very specific proportions are neeed to make the gas explode or even just burn.. people seem to have overlooked that sufficient amount of gas, even if less than the required percentage of total room volume, will combine and burn with only the needed amount of air immediately around it. and even if the mixture is over-rich, the fire will simply draw in needed air from the nearby areas. I guess sonmebody will inevitably come up with an argument saying nobody would be stupid enough to unload his propane loaded full-auto GBB inside the confines of a small vehicle or a booth...

[Shao14]

Can someone tell me exactly what this dude's point is?

 

Q: Propane is bad and shouldn't be used in airsoft because ............

 

Answers on a postcard.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Let's look at the positive side, I think he's just trying to make us aware of what that particular organization, which has no knowledge of an airsoft GBB gun whatsoever, said about releasing unburned propane into the atmosphere. No more and no less.

[Hissing_Sid]

If I post porn will this get closed?

[Shao14]

  I guess sonmebody will inevitably come up with an argument saying nobody would be stupid enough to unload his propane loaded full-auto GBB inside the confines of a small vehicle or a booth...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You are right about that.

[Shao14]

If I post porn will this get closed?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, it will, as will any thing against forum rules, but I wouldn't advise you to do that of course, sort of like the PERC wouldn't advise you to use propane in GBBs.