Don't forget to vote!

[cadetrichards]

voting?

 

pah.

[Desolation mkII]

Had a very bad experience with them some years ago (saw a bunch of them giving the Nazi salute by a cenotaph in Stone during a photo shoot which made me want to turn my bus round and drive over them) and they have done enough criminal damage down my street over the years. Why do I have to live on a road with a BNP pub/HQ at the top?

 

I must just point out that I know a few BNP supporters and they are not like that at all. They are just normal people and I feel that the Nazi saluting skinheads are an image that the party is desperately trying to get away from. (Nick Grifin is not an anti semite and atempted to remove the holocaust supporting anti semites from the party a couple of years ago.)

 

Me I voted Tory, but I honestly gave the BNP consideration as they are the ultimate protest vote and seem to be the only party willing to get rid of this PC nonsense (IIRC alot of which comes from council initiatives) and they wouldn't be able to do anything bad from holding a council seat.

 

My 2 cents.

 

As a point, no I am not a racist.

[powelly]

urgh this is too political for my liking

[Steve Pearson]

I vote against world peace.

[Crazy_Harry]

I should be careful when it comes to believing the BNP is changing its spots- its just that the people who want to hold essentially racist views without actually ever admitting to anyone, including themselves, that they are racist- Nick Griffin's "we don't mind coloured people coming to visit, we just don't think we should let them live here" comment being the classic example- are more in control of the party than the out-and-out fascists.

 

The sad thing is though is that, yes, you're right- they ARE ordinary people who vote and are in the BNP. Nice old ladies and "salt-of-the-earth" working class people who are perfectly nice, except that they see the world as clearly divided along issues of what's mine, and what's thine.

 

And if you're the wrong colour, be so good as to close the door on way out, theres a good chap. Charming fellow, really liked him. Glad he's gone though...can't stand dar--- *muffled by Nick Griffin's hand being placed demurely but firmly over mouth*

 

"shh" says Nick, with a smile...

 

Sorry, violently opposed to the BNP on all levels. Just think they are hiding their racism under a facade of politics.

 

and Guzzihero- you voted tory?! by gods man, go and have a long shower and scrub yourself down wire wool. You'll feel better for it, believe me...

[screamin_weasel]

hhmmm i didnt vote.

 

the only reason i knew the vote was on is because the *fruitcage* splitters over ran our band practice building to do the polling

[TheBauer]

i dont vote because i dont like any of them, they all lie and not worth my time.

 

plus then i can complain when there in power 'i didnt vote for them'

[Crazy_Harry]

its very true- and even if you DO support a party's politics, there's no point voting for them if doing so means you're running the risk of splitting the vote and letting the guys you REALLY don't agree with in.

 

democracy as we understand it in britain is essentially voting AGAINST parties, not for them.

 

Only reason labours been in power so long is not because people support them necessarily, but because its either them or the bloody tories, who haven't had their act together for long enough to make them seem like a viable alternative.

 

Rather like the last time the tories were in, I suppose. Just hope it doesn't mean another 18 bloody years of Tory control if labour lose the next general election.

[sniper_boi]

Yes sorry, what I said may have sounded rather fasiceous and I can assure you I didn't mean it to come out so negatively.

 

Apologies.

 

-Deso

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Dont apologize mate for something you didnt do.

[HaVoC]

Conservative - Now i was watching a program about the 70's when Conservative was in power, back then they didnt do any good, so what makes you say they gonna be good this time round, Maggie thatcher cut jobs and thus it started the miner strike in wales because of her greed.

As opposed to the god-knows-how-many different strikes under this government, and of course ye olde Labour of the past.

 

Maggie sorted out the Unions, freeing stuff up and getting the country moving (once everyone gained some balls and stopped going on strike, realising it was a good thing - there'll always be resistance to change, because we're stubborn and British ).

 

Had I HAD to vote for someone, it'd probably have either been the Tories, because they're the best of the major parties (that's not saying much, mind you), or I'd have wasted the vote on someone like the New Millenium Bean Party (any guy who changes his name to Captain Beany and paints himself orange is a winner in my books). Who knows - the NMBP might well do a better job at running the country than anyone else...

 

Regarding the BNP, they are too right-wing, but that's not to say I can't see where their voters are coming from. I have sympathy here - they may be extreme in the, err, extreme, but they do have a few valid points. With Labour placing such a ridiculous bias on 'equal opportunities' and 'multiculturalism' (all totally fair and unbiased, of course...), and the recent cock-ups with foreign criminals, I can definately see why people might want the focus shifted back towards the 'traditional Brit', as it were.

[nobody]

I can definately see why people might want the focus shifted back towards the 'traditional Brit', as it were.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Britains has had mix of races living in it ever since Augustus stationed a few hundred black soldiers to guard hadrians wall. We are a mix of races and have always lived in a multicultural society. The BNP argues almost simultaneuosly that people come from other countries to claim benefits and 'steal our jobs', its retarded.

 

 

As for thatcher, clearly privatisation has truly made this country a better place.

[GuzziHero]

Theres a difference between occupational migrants (workers), asylum seeking migrants (the oppressed) and economic migrants (spongers). The trick is, to help the first 2 (and in the case of the first, have them help us) while avoiding the 3rd. Its a very very fine line which Im glad I dont have to tread. My family for example were occupational migrants and asylum seekers. Escaping an evil Czarist regime...and yet my great grandad (lith born) served in WW1...for Britain.

 

While totally NOT supporting the BNP...I wonder how many recent migrants would go to war under a British flag? For that matter, how many British-born citizens would do the same? England has lost that sense of community and pride it once had. The idea of the traditional brit is long gone.

 

Privatisation...I dont believe it has been a good thing. Ill admit, on the surface it has. Competition has brought about lower prices and in some areas (mainly retailable industry like telecommunications) a dramatic speed-up in development as each company tries to out-tech the others. In others, however (notably public services), it has brought about stagnation as corporations try to charge the most for the least outlay...meaning that progress is halted in order to increase profits and keep the greed-driven shareholders happy. We now have CEOs awarded millions in bonuses for slashing tens of thousands of jobs...and exorting that work overseas. In the name of corporate gain and...hah...capitalism, we are eroding our own self sufficiency and economy.

 

This can not last forever. While Im steering away from my previous politic of communism (Lenin is boring), I have to agree with Marx in that all capitalisms are destined to implode. Once the rate of growth halts, it becomes the victim of the zero-sum figure catch22 that is global economy...what is the value of being the richest person in the world when noone has any money to buy from you? America is reaching this implosion at an incredible rate (it will happen within most of our lifetimes)...the UK isnt too far behind, although we do have Europe as an escape hatch.

 

Sheesh...this wasnt meant to be so long. All Im trying to say here is consider this: When did Britain switch from having a "Women and children first!" ethos to an "Every man for himself!" one? Reunifying and strengthening the British people as a whole requires either a new way of thinking, or a reversal of the isolationist, personal gain mentality that now rules us.

[pabloescobar]

With all the BNP bashing on this thread one would think the other parties were angels........

Tory sleaze and cash for questions, Lib Dems alcoholics and rent boy users, and Labour......surely you dont need reminders? VCR cough Iraq cough Prescott cough Blunkett cough Clarke coouugh

[Desolation mkII]

I hear somewhat ironicaly considering some of the coments on the BNP in this thread that the head Lib Dem MEP has had to stand down for making anti semitic coments.

[Spudgun]

Well, there weren't any elections where I lived. However, if there were, I would've voted BNP. The reasoning is simple. If I wanted a bunch of 'twonks' on the Council, I'd vote for a Party who I knew were a bunch of 'twonks' in the first place and not for a party who'd turn out to be a bunch of 'twonks'.

[GuzziHero]

Fact is...theyre all the same at the end of the day. You just have to choose a key issue and go for the party who you think represents your point of view on that issue. In my case, i voted blue because they are more likely to argue against red's VCRB than a red candidate.

 

Its like playing Russian Roulette...with 6 bullets.

 

Only difference is, the BNP are just a blank that will leave you blind and scarred for life instead of killing you.

[Crazy_Harry]

its true- only difference is to what extent they are "honest" (if such a word can be applied to politicians of ANY colour) about their intentions- even the BNP can no long claim such an auspicious accolade now they've moved away from their out-and-out racism to more touchy feely "we don't hate you for being the wrong colour, we just like you better when there's an ocean between us, and I'm sure you'd prefer it that way too" spin-doctoring.

 

As to privatisation- fact of the matter is that there are some industries, vital to a nations existance as a civilisation, that simply cannot operate under a capitalist system- perfect example being public transport or healthcare.

 

Where people go wrong is in assuming that these can make money. They can't. Think about it- what makes public transport good? it needs to be cheap, efficient, on time and regular.

 

you can't have all of them if you also hope to make money out of it. Ecnomically it makes no sense.

 

The only way you can make public transport cheap, efficient, on time and regular is to have it run by a non-profit organisation that has a huge and reliable budget, like, for eg, a government.

 

In fact a government is the ONLY viable choice, as it is the only body within a nation that can and indeed SHOULD function without profit and even at a LOSS.

 

afterall, what you get out of an excellent state-run public transportation system isn't money, but a happy population who aren't reliant on cars to get to work on time, or to go on a pleasant trip somewhere at the weekend.

 

Private companies don't think of their clientele in this way. The only result they want to see is more profit to give to themselves and their share-holders. A public transport system can never function under such requirements, as it is a system into which a company must invest heavliy and get very little, if any, fiscal return.

 

Hence the way pubic transport is run in britain is by smallish compnaies who're constantly putting up charges and cutting back on services- its the only way to make any money, even though it means that people will stop using your trains if they get half a chance.

 

Certain things, like the steel or coal industry, should never have been publically owned- there was never the need, except during wartime. Other industries, that are essential to a countries well-being in terms of creating a relaxed and keen workforce but that aren't there to make money, MUST be publically run if they are to do the job they are intended to do.

 

Again, the greatest danger is that the average taxpayer takes one look at the fact that the NHS, for eg, runs at a loss and instantly thinks thats a bad thing.

 

no, its not. Its a healthcare system. Why should it be required to make a profit, at least in terms of monetary gains? People pay taxes into it, they get healthcare out of it. end of problem.

 

crazy, I tells ya.

 

and re the immigration issue- yeah, I totally understand why white voters in britain would vote BNP. Its because people have this lousy habit of always thinking things were better when they were a lad, and there weren't all these funny-looking people running around then causing trouble.

 

But there was still crime. There was still grinding poverty, especially in the industrial cities and rural areas. There were still economic migrants (would love for someone to explain to me how "Great Britain" could have got so bloody great WITHOUT people from all backgrounds and nationalities migrating into industrial cities for economic reasons). and there were still people who lived off the sweat and hard work of others- they were called aristocrats.

 

anyway, class-struggle aside, the point is that harking back to some halcyon point in history is a trap, a fantasy. It never existed, not truly, its just adolescent memories encouraged by nationalist propaganda it tabloid reading idiots who've never had to actually sit down in front of a pile of history books and write a university-level paper on the very time period that they claim to know so much about.

 

I've written a few, and the over-riding impression I get is that, apart from a few VERY important things, like the welfare state, things back in the days of yore were not that dissimilar to how they are now.

 

Personally, I don't understand why people get so worked up about people migrating out of poverty to rich countries to benefit from them. We'd all do the same thing if it was us and we had the chance, and anyone who says otherwise is lying.

 

Great example is a very good friend of mine, who's not racist at all, who was complaining about all the immigration into the netherlands from the middle east and africa. Basically, he was of the impression that the netherlands was full, and should be turning these people away.

 

In the same breath, he mentioned how HE was planning on moving over there to live.

 

so, sez I, if its so full, how're they going to fit you in? you're a filthy funny-looking foreigner too, and you're going over there to steal there jobs and there women, so how is it any different for you than if you were from the middle east?

 

well, sez he, thats different, init? self-evidently different. I just can't be bothered to explain it right now, is all...

[pabloescobar]

Harry,

You have put to much effort into your post for it to remain unanswered

Sometimes though, I think people can read to much into the BNP vote and try and answer the whys and hows themselves.

Im not sure the immigration debate is that high ranking in Burnley.

I know a heck of a lot of people who vote for the BNP and it is generally more to do with solving anti social problems (from both communities), which has a knock on effect for house prices etc. and a halt to the erosion of culture (with respect to national symbols, celebrations etc).

The fact is in years gone by there has been a disproportionate amount of renewal work in Asian areas, there has been a high crime level (reported or not), there have been asian on white attacks (rarely classed as racist) and other councillors will try and blur these facts as opposed to really trying to get to the root and solve it once and for all.

The first step is actually being able to talk about such things, and there you have the BNP. If the other parties dared to raise questions and encourage debate then maybe they would win back favour in some areas.

I do not see this happening in the near future though, if at all.

 

note: these are in no way definative reasons for voting or complete answers, just general comments on the feeling amongst people I have been in contact with.

 

P.S 100% agree with the privatisation comments.

[GuzziHero]

And here is the problem with the mainstream parties. They are trying to please all of the people all of the time (at least with what they are saying in public) and finding it impossible to please anyone. If they want to see why more people are moving to vote for fascist, hateful idiots like the British Nazi...sorry, Nationalist...Party, they have to look at their own policies.

 

I know all too much about the problems with public transport - Im a bus driver. We have an alleged 'integrated transport policy'...where the bus companies (at least in my area) will not accept each others tickets.

 

If you live somewhere that the major bus company (First) will not serve because it isnt financially viable, but youre going to somewhere where the local services dont run a direct service to, you have to buy 2 seperate tickets. And if you want returns...

 

Example: Barlaston - Keele University. You have to go Barlaston - Stoke (£2.35 return), Stoke - Newcastle Under Lyme (£2.20 return), N-u-L - Keele Uni (£2.35 return). The entire journey has taken you an hour and a 1/4, presuming the timetables all match up perfectly. It just is not worth it.

 

Talking of Barlaston, the line that goes through there is now owned by Virgin. So of course, for over 2 years there have been NO local train services because Virgin has monopolised the line for their high-speed trains (although some freight trains also use it for a crazy high fee). So in just over 3 years, Barlaston has gone from a bus service every hour (with First) plus a train every 30 mins, to one bus every 2 hours, who's tickets are not compatible with any other transport operator.

 

Sorry for the very long-winded explanation, but I wanted to demonstrate how the situation sucks. And that I dont expect that voting BNP would help resolve the situation.

[Crazy_Harry]

you're right, and voting for the BNP is the narrow-view attempt to deal with the perceived problems faced by Britain. There policy, of returning Britain unto the white british citizen while also returning it to some halycon days of yore, with everyone proud once more of being british (unsure how they expect me to be proud of a country if it can actually vote in the BNP...) and leaping around celebrating St George's day, and ensuring that everyone stands or the twice daily blast of God Save the Queen accompanied by pictures of Her Madge waving condescendingly to the peasants (seriously, she must think she's done the biggest number on us possible- totally rolling in british taxpayers money, and we APPLAUD her for it. incredible).

 

And this is a perfectly human response to what people inevitably see as the errosion of their childhood memories- its how all extremist parties gain power. They tap into that great big ever-present group memory of some alleged "glory days" and proceed to make outrageous claims that they can possibly achieve it again.

 

and how do they do it? the usual way- lock the doors, throw away the key, pull up the ladder and then go in for a bit of honest-to-goodness persecution.

 

Asian areas have more money spent on them? why not move to them then? hang on, what do you mean "asian areas"? The only asian areas I knew of in britain when I was their was the predominantly cheap-seats of any major city you care to mention. And then you have to ask why they've been allowed to BECOME "ethnic"- not everyone their owns their houses.

 

classic example is the bradford race riots of a few years back- blatant segregationary tactics by the Bradford council over years ensured that the Asian population of the city ended up in the crummy areas, where they felt they were disproportionately excluded from jobs and where even third generation british citizens were treated like the lower classes by a bunch of white working class "salt of the earth" types.

 

Whether this was in fact the case is neither here nor there- thats how they felt, so a-rioting they did go.

 

one of the possible reasons there's perhaps been more investment is due to the chronic UNDERinvestment of previous years. Just a thought.

 

I dunno, I just despair some days- you think history has been obvious enough to observers that they'll never repeat allow it to repeat itself, but what happens next? someone trundles out the nationalist platform and starts pointing fingers at all lifes little problems, and low and behold, isn't that handy? they ALL are the result of either the government or people "not like us"

 

cue the sound of jackboots.