Trasher Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 Asahi M60E3 SDX test at ranges above 80 meters. For the uninitiated: this is a 10-20 year old, externally powered, gas operated classic airsoft gun from the pre-AEG era. The hopup effect is achieved by an unadjustable long range barrel (LRB) which moves forward and back with each shot. The barrel was tuned by AS4L/SniperX and produces a relatively flat trajectory up to 70-80 meters. I made this video to show that BV-type, LRB-equipped classic airsoft guns can reach (and sometimes go beyond) 300ft at lower velocities than modern systems. The rest of the numbers is in the video. VIDEO (38MB) Link to post Share on other sites
drthvader567 Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 Nice video! Good quality! Great gun! --D:V Link to post Share on other sites
Trasher Posted March 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 Thanks! Link to post Share on other sites
schneiderboy Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 I like the range of this beast Link to post Share on other sites
goldenraptor Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 Watching... it seems amazing... makes me sad Link to post Share on other sites
camilion705 Posted March 21, 2007 Report Share Posted March 21, 2007 How exactly does it achieve that range? Link to post Share on other sites
goldenraptor Posted March 21, 2007 Report Share Posted March 21, 2007 To me, it seems the gun is at a slight upwards angle, therefore instead of having somewhat of a straight BB line, it is an arch Link to post Share on other sites
ryguy0492 Posted March 21, 2007 Report Share Posted March 21, 2007 yea in the video i could see a bb coming down on an angle with a large arch Link to post Share on other sites
TDS Posted March 21, 2007 Report Share Posted March 21, 2007 How exactly does it achieve that range? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> firing ~360 with .3_'s quite a bit over what most fields allow. Link to post Share on other sites
Donut Posted March 21, 2007 Report Share Posted March 21, 2007 I keep hearing this "LRB" but haven't really understood how it worked... can anyone help me? Link to post Share on other sites
Chris North Posted March 21, 2007 Report Share Posted March 21, 2007 That's nice. It seems like it wouldn't be that effective though, with the time it takes the bbs to reach the target. Where is that, BTW? What was it used for? Link to post Share on other sites
Brett230SX Posted March 21, 2007 Report Share Posted March 21, 2007 You just have to love Classic Airsoft... And Asahi! I would give my left unmentionable for an Asahi M-134A "Strength through superior firepower!" Link to post Share on other sites
NegativeCambre Posted March 21, 2007 Report Share Posted March 21, 2007 Neat video--is it filmed in Hungary? I dig your property, that is a very cool car path. Seemed like you were only getting one or two hits on the target per burst--is that an artifact of the video or does a 'spread' develop during longer burst? Either way, probably the coolest M60 I've seen here, and an excellent presentation of the video with the photograph in the original post. Steve Link to post Share on other sites
Trasher Posted March 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2007 The M60 was fired very close to the ground (prone position), at the lowest bipod setting (see the pic). The trajectory is nearly flat up to 70-80 meters, I aimed slightly above the top right corner of the plate to get hits at 83 meters when the wind calmed down. I never realized this trajectory until I equipped the gun with a 4x optic. For 92 meters, I aimed well above the 80x80cm target, about where the head of a standing opponent would be. Airsoft projectiles lose much of their muzzle energy within 20-30 meters, so BB flight time is VERY long (watch the counter). Wind is a VERY limiting factor for a low powered, light BB. You have to compensate. - Regarding the 1 hit out of 3-4 shots: due to the moving barrel, this hopup system produces larger groups than modern guns. Add the aforementioned wind factor, not-so-good airsoft ballistics, CO2 cooldown, plus extreme range to the equation and you get a pretty large BB spread. - The Long Range Barrel (LRB): this is a custom made part and it's secret is the offset bore. It's hard to explain (even for a classic airsmith, so I won't with my crappy english), here is a PIC instead. - Our open field rules allow automatics up to 1.7 Joules (CQB is lower, of course). Semi-autos and bolt actions allowed up to 3.3 Joules with a 20 meter minimum engagement distance. So this M60 is a skirmish gun which I use every weekend, but at a slightly lower power setting. - Yep, the video was filmed in Hungary. Link to post Share on other sites
thesweeney Posted March 21, 2007 Report Share Posted March 21, 2007 WOW. Very very jeleous. Thanks for sharing....i hate you **oh so jealous** ###### how do you spell jelious (i.e. envious) Link to post Share on other sites
TDS Posted March 21, 2007 Report Share Posted March 21, 2007 but at a slightly lower power setting. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> There's allways a catch! Link to post Share on other sites
camilion705 Posted March 21, 2007 Report Share Posted March 21, 2007 firing ~360 with .3_'s quite a bit over what most fields allow. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, he states in the video very clearly that he is using G&P .28g bbs at a velocity of 360fps or 1.7 J. My question has more to do with what system the M60 uses to generate these results. Obviously it is not very accurate, but what other automatics can shoot to that distance and hit the target. How does this hop system or LRB on the M60 function? Can anyone explain? Link to post Share on other sites
TheKurodaVagrant Posted March 21, 2007 Report Share Posted March 21, 2007 Trasher, I'm jealous, too. This makes me want to buy a classic... Link to post Share on other sites
TDS Posted March 21, 2007 Report Share Posted March 21, 2007 My question has more to do with what system the M60 uses to generate these results. Obviously it is not very accurate, but what other automatics can shoot to that distance and hit the target. How does this hop system or LRB on the M60 function? Can anyone explain? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> its a function of how BV guns work pretty much. the whole inner barrel moves back and forth as the gun fires, LRB's have an offset bore so when the bb is "fired" into the gun, the bb rolls across the top of the barrel as the barrel moves backwards, kind of a "double whammy" of the ones ive owned, the only difference seems to be the offset is slightly different with different length barrels, swapping barrels between guns produces the same desired effect, I cloned one that I had for a slightly,differently length barrel gun before I sold it, and it produced the same exact effect so the "needs to be tuned to the gun" stuff is nonsense. They also dont work without heavy ammo for some reason and give you a weird trajectory, (dip, rise, then dip again) Like all fixed hops, the gun is actually firing a bit harder than its fps would make you think, you normally crono a gun with the hop turned off, then apply hop to get the trajectory you want, reducing the FPS of the bb. If the gun cant be adjusted, you can crono in with the hop "set" VERY high (which is was lrbs do) The exacts are kept secret by sniperx and his brother so he can continue selling them at close to $200 each (installation and 2 way shipping in there) at a turnaround time of up to and including 6months. Link to post Share on other sites
Trasher Posted March 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2007 Well, he states in the video very clearly that he is using G&P .28g bbs at a velocity of 360fps or 1.7 J. To be diplomatic, TDS has this "if there is a classic airsoft thread, I must make a snide remark or two" thing. He is very biased toward certain people, so I don't regard him as a reliable source of information... On the other hand, I think he described LRB principles pretty well. In my case the smith had to cut and turn a 2nd tightbore LRB since the 1st produced lower range than expected. In other cases, one barrel gives optimal performance with .25s, the other overhops them and requires heavier BBs. So there is definitely a delicate factor in the manufacturing process which requires special attention (tuning). The end user may also have to experiment with pressure settings, O-rings, bushings, proper lubrication, springs, etc to get the desired performance. The offset of the LRB is between 1-1.25mm, I think. Another interesting thing I noticed after a series of tests that more power won't equal more range with this fixed hopup design. My much powerful (3+ Joule) and far more accurate VSR won't go beyond 83-85 meters with very expensive .29 SGM where the 1.7J Asahi can surpass 90m with cheaper .28 ammo. So there are no black/white, or sense/nonsense answers to the LRB. Here you can find detailed pictures of the Asahi system. http://szlejer.itigia.hu/M60/Disassembled Link to post Share on other sites
camilion705 Posted March 22, 2007 Report Share Posted March 22, 2007 Thank you for the info, both TDS and Trasher. Marvelous M60, I have never before seen this kind of system in airsoft. Link to post Share on other sites
NickN Posted March 22, 2007 Report Share Posted March 22, 2007 Could this range hypothetically be achieved by any classic rifle with the demonstrated LRB system? Say a JAC M16 or something of the like, if it were fitted with an LRB? Link to post Share on other sites
TDS Posted March 22, 2007 Report Share Posted March 22, 2007 To be diplomatic, TDS has this "if there is a classic airsoft thread, I must make a snide remark or two" thing. He is very biased toward certain people, so I don't regard him as a reliable source of information... On the other hand, I think he described LRB principles pretty well. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> need to remind people that these guns dont walk on water when people post performance data of the top 2% of them. Link to post Share on other sites
AustinWolv Posted March 22, 2007 Report Share Posted March 22, 2007 Who here is surprised that TDS had to bring his childish vendetta to this thread? Just have to twist little details around to present them as "fact" for your malicious motive, eh TDS? There's allways a catch! Actually, there isn't. Except for you always trying to bash classics and badmouth anything associated with sniperx. He is very biased toward certain people, so I don't regard him as a reliable source of information... And indeed TDS isn't. Because he speaks through his vendetta, not through objective information. Kudos to Trasher for actually putting up ACTUAL information and proving it himself versus the subjective half-truths that TDS runs with. Obviously it is not very accurate, but what other automatics can shoot to that distance and hit the target. How does this hop system or LRB on the M60 function? Can anyone explain? It is accurate enough to hit a man-sized target at 80-100 yards. That does nicely for support weapons. Here's some old info on hopup systems, including LRBs: http://www.classicairsoft.net/Articles/hopup/index.htm The funny thing is that TDS always tries to claim the info is hidden and not shared. It is right there, easy to see. If it is so hidden, how did TDS clone a LRB as he claims? TDS, do you expect Ford to provide their new engine design to Chevy? Like all fixed hops, the gun is actually firing a bit harder than its fps would make you think, you normally crono a gun with the hop turned off, then apply hop to get the trajectory you want, reducing the FPS of the bb. If the gun cant be adjusted, you can crono in with the hop "set" VERY high (which is was lrbs do) The chrono doesn't care how hard the gun is capable of shooting. The chrono and event staff care how hard the BB is coming out of the gun. Turning the hopup off is to catch those with adjustable hopups cranking them beyond what they would actually set them to for flat trajectory in order to slow down the BB to pass chrono. Fixed-hopup guns and LRB-equipped guns are actually SAFER to chrono because their hopup can't be toyed with like adjustable hopup guns. What they shoot is what they shoot. You can't adjust a LRB gun to have HIGHER hopup and cheat the chrono because there is nothing to block the BB, i.e. slow it down to give a false reading. The exacts are kept secret by sniperx and his brother so he can continue selling them at close to $200 each (installation and 2 way shipping in there) at a turnaround time of up to and including 6months. Bitter much? Tried to get the engineering specs out of him so you could copy the work and sell your own and since that didn't happen you bash him, Escort, and CA.net members on this site? Do you go around slamming Systema on various airsoft forums for not sharing their motor engineering drawings? Or Prometheus for not providing us all the 3D database for their pistons? No? Then your malicious intent is even more apparent. Whatever little spat you and sniperx had in the past or if you just can't get your classics to work right and hate the world as a result......grow up and get over it. You aren't doing anything productive or even factual. They also dont work without heavy ammo for some reason and give you a weird trajectory, (dip, rise, then dip again) Nice blanket statement. Some work just fine with .25g BBs.....do you consider those exceptionally heavy? Others work better with .28g. Done. What's the problem? Oh, or are you just trying yet another angle to badmouth classics? I'll also take that "weird" trajectory any day of the week, as it is still flat enough to be incredibly effective in the field. What twisted angle are you going to try next? need to remind people that these guns dont walk on water when people post performance data of the top 2% of them. Also need to remind people that you blast sniperx and classics every chance you get on this forum and CA.net. You should also remind them that you don't have the balls to say it clearly, but instead employ snide, passive-aggressive remarks like a catty schoolgirl. I have multiple classics, including two Asahi M60s and an Asahi FNC, and an Asahi MINIMI in the past. All of them performed exceptionally well. And I still use and own AEGs, so don't try a weak comeback saying I only like classics. Amazing that all of them were in the "top 2%" by your logic though. I should play the lotto if I'm that lucky with the odds. The Asahi M60 is the most reliable and best-performing combo I have yet to come across in airsoft. (Prediction: TDS won't answer or else he'll have some weak angle to try and question how many replicas I've owned or time I've spent on the field) There are pros and cons to EVERY airsoft replica out there, including the AEG side, the GBB side, the classics side, and the spring-powered side. I would advise all to really do your own research and get various viewpoints instead of falling for the spun half-truths that TDS likes to employ. Link to post Share on other sites
wolfstein5 Posted March 22, 2007 Report Share Posted March 22, 2007 Cool video. Nice info on the LRB, I've wondered how those worked. Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.