Single Stack 1911's

[Spencedaddy]

alrighty then, my question is a fairly simple one.First off, i have been infatuated with 1911's for quite some time and this is the first time that i have made a move on that. Secondly, i have a great liking for GOV'T 1911's, HI-CAPA's just don't really do it for me.

 

So now for the questions.

 

Single Stack 1911's.......are there any issues that i should be forseeing with this type of gun.From what I understand, the springs are wicked strong, thus, cracking the feed lips quickly. Is this true?

 

The WE 1911 is said to have serious gas consumption, making a full magazine dump impossible to do.is this unfounded?

 

reloading-are there any real issues with single stacks in airsoft.i can't quite explain what i'm trying to say, but i am wondering if there are any issues with these smaller mags in an airsoft gun.

 

also, any other info on some pro's and con's of this kind of pistol, and then for the kicker, WE or WA? (i think they are the only people to produce single stacks, but i could be totally wrong)

 

Thanks

[RacingManiac]

WA, TM, KSC, KWA, WE, KJW, Bell, and KWC all makes 1911 GBB.

 

WA, TM and KSC(maybe KWC too?) have their own design and system for their GBB(WA also have multiple systems used in their GBB from Magna to SCW 1/2/3). WE makes theirs with a modified TM Hi-Capa sysem(which is according to some an improved version of what they have for their line of Hi-Capa). KJW is a full metal clone of the TM design(KJW ver 2, their version one is a clone of WA's design. Distinguish by 26 round capacity for version 2 and 14 round for version 1). Bell is a plastic clone of the TM design.

 

I think the general view is that WE have issues with reliability, and although the design origin can be traced back to TM's Hi-Capa the compatibility is poor. KJW and Bell's clone have had pretty good review so far(as far as KJW's ver 2 goes), and have good parts compatibility with TM.

 

On the main choices from the OEMs, WA and TM are usually decided by what you want to do with it and how much are you willing to spend. Both comes plastic stock, both can be upgraded to metal, and both costs quite a bit when you do upgrade them. TM is easier to source parts, comes stock as the GI 1911A1 model, but have aftermarket metal kits for certain popular model of 1911s(Kimber, MEU, Springfield, Delta-Elite...etc), and can take propane stock with little issue. WA I think are viewed as better quality when left stock(Heavy weight plastic and tight-bore barrel stock), and you can likely find that specific model of 1911-style gun(Wilson Combat, Springfield Armoury, Kimber...etc) though it has less compatibility with propane. KSC's new 1911 can be had in full metal, but shooting performance is not up to the more popular TM or WA, and hard to source any meaningful upgrades for, but most site in Taiwan seems to say its the best piece for collector. WA also seems to cost the most out of the box.

 

I've been working with my TM Hi-Capa for a while, so I know the system being employed by them, so that tends to sway me to say TM is pretty good bet. I am planning to get one myself to start my own project 1911 on it. One thing to note is that on propane, due to the nature of the Single stack being thinner mag than the double stack Hi-Capa, the full 26 round load of TM's mag cannot be depleted by the gas capacity of the gun. I think most said you can probably lock-back the slide after 20 rounds max. And expect poorer economy when using metal slide and such. The same is true for WE, KJW and I assume Bell as well, with WE and KJW being hampered by their metal slide to start with, plus possibly the lesser quality valving in their mag.

 

 

[Spencedaddy]

so the Bell IS single stack?

 

also, what kind of reliability issues are there on the WE's....i have seen one WE break recently, but otherwise i have heard nothing bad about them.thats the gun i'm leaning towards the most, extra mag included.but i don't know if they have a tightbore for it.

 

I am looking for a full metal or at least metal slide 1911. I just don't think that plastic slides do justice to handguns.

 

Power is not really an issue.as long as it shoots over 290 and under 330 i am perfectly ok.

 

i'm not really looking to have some crazy Springfield Armory trades on my slide.All i want is a normal looking 1911 with maybe some Colt trades if they have 'em.

 

also, am i correct when i say that they can take (slightly modded) real steel grips?

[L4byr1nth]

I have a WA SV Infinty LTD 6" 1911 I.E.D. that I got second/third-hand off the forums.

 

It's lasted me a long time, and is skirmished regularly... Hard to find mags for, though... Apparently there were only about 500 of these made.

 

Ben.

[RacingManiac]

so the Bell IS single stack?

 

also, what kind of reliability issues are there on the WE's....i have seen one WE break recently, but otherwise i have heard nothing bad about them.thats the gun i'm leaning towards the most, extra mag included.but i don't know if they have a tightbore for it.

 

I am looking for a full metal or at least metal slide 1911. I just don't think that plastic slides do justice to handguns.

 

Power is not really an issue.as long as it shoots over 290 and under 330 i am perfectly ok.

 

i'm not really looking to have some crazy Springfield Armory trades on my slide.All i want is a normal looking 1911 with maybe some Colt trades if they have 'em.

 

also, am i correct when i say that they can take (slightly modded) real steel grips?

 

 

In Airsoft terms, most pistols are double stacked(except I think some WA and 1st gen KJW which copied WA), because there are 2 rows of BB in the mag when loaded. But they can be based on a single stack real firearm, like 1911. What it translate to is thinner magazine and less gas capacity, which in the case of many of the 1911 is that they don't quite have enough gas to shoot all the BB the mag can hold.

 

As I don't personally own a WE I can't tell you exactly what they have might break. But I've heard of springs weakening over time(shorter time that is than usual), slide cracking because of the bad quality pot-metal, rapid mag cool down because of the less efficient valve and heavy cycling action of the metal slide, inconsistant power output from shot to shot...etc. But then there are always going to be people who feels perfectly happy with theirs. And yes it does fit real steel grip(may or maynot need modification I think depends on the grip). The main issue with these clone makers are that they have poorer QC than the OEMs, which reflects on their price. But that means the chance of you getting a lemon is higher....

[L4byr1nth]

Agreed. My WA is one of the only GBB's that is true single stack.

 

I would go TM if I were you.

 

Ben.

[hardboiledcop]

Labyrinth, any WA 1911 magazine should work in your IED, I ran SCW mags through my Magna gun just fine.

 

 

[L4byr1nth]

Really? That's not what I heard...

 

But then again, I remember you being the expert on WA I turned to when actually buying the gun, a couple of years ago?

 

Lol!! What magazines can I buy, then?

 

Ben.

[hardboiledcop]

I'm hardly an expert, ie I can put one together and take it apart but don't ask me how to fix it

 

All I know is that all my single stack 1911 magazines for WA are interchangeable. I used 15rd/19rd/21rd. etc.. across pretty much all my 1911's and they all worked.

 

--

 

Just try someone elses mag next time you're at a skirmish..

[L4byr1nth]

Lol ok, I'll do that!! I only know one other person with a WA though... :S

 

Ben.

[Spencedaddy]

any replacement slides available for the WE 1911?

 

problem with a TM is that i HATE ABS guns my D Eagle is nice, but i wish it was metal.

 

i'll look up the price on a metal slides.

 

also.are TB barrels hard to install? i want this to be as accurate as it can be.

[Frakk2k]

There is a great thread here on the Bell

http://www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/forums/inde...howtopic=133392

 

(I bought one on the basis of this, and I am happy with mine)

[RacingManiac]

any replacement slides available for the WE 1911?

 

problem with a TM is that i HATE ABS guns my D Eagle is nice, but i wish it was metal.

 

i'll look up the price on a metal slides.

 

also.are TB barrels hard to install? i want this to be as accurate as it can be.

 

You may be able to fit a TM Hi-Capa slide on a WE, but I am not certain on that. You can definitely fit a part made for TM on a TM, which is why I think if you are thinking of upgrading down the line getting OEM guns to start with is a better idea. FYI, you can also fit a TM Hi-Capa slide on a TM 1911, provided you get a Tanio Koba Slide spacer...look it up on WGC and it also mentioned how to install it. This is a good option if you don't want to go for a full frame/slide upgrade which costs quite a bit and there are more Hi-Capa slide available than 1911(as most 1911 upgrades are full frame/slide kit)

 

Tightbore barrels are very easy to install, it involves only field stripping the gun, and undoing 2 screws and replacing the hop-up rubber from the stock onto the new barrel.

 

 

[amateurstuntman]

I've got the WA 1911 IED 6" and it runs just fine on my wilson combat magazines.

 

Hope that helps mate.

 

 

[The Gopher]

The KJW 1911a1 s/s I had was great when it ran fine.

 

Hard kick. Reckon it could be mistaken for a .22LR pistol.

 

Pot metal, shoddy quality killed it.

 

Do not buy it. Mags will eventually break out the monkey metal spring support at the bottom of the mag which supports the spring to push up the BBs. Horrid accuracy too...my goodness.

 

It held 13 or 14bbs, can't remember. Had enough gas to shoot 1.5 mags worth before *PPSSHHH* and it was gone. The single stack size is pretty nice.

 

I would gladly trade it for an upgraded M93R2 with tightbore, metal slide, highflow valves, upgraded recoil spring, and anything else instead. Hard to beat the grin of ripping three round bursts and full auto.

[RacingManiac]

just to note, the gun as mentioned by The Gopher is the 1st version of the KJW 1911, their 2nd version which holds 26 or 24 bbs is a different gun entirely.....

[Spencedaddy]

so.here's a question, are there dimension differences as to the single stack versus the double?

 

maybe someone could put up the measurements of a single and someone else of the double..

[Wege]

not just magazine difference but system difference.

I briefly recall (from the airsofthawaii review? hammerheads?) that it was similar to the WA system.

The current KJW release is by all accounts based on the TM version.

 

And you forgot the limited KWA release that was almost a clone of the WA Magna series 1?... that was being sold for $50! complete.. which was $2 more than the WA magazines were.. blast..

[ruchik]

Well it depends on what single and double stacks you are comparing. The only difference between say the TM 1911 and a Para-Ordnance P14 is width. Between an Infinity-styled gun and a traditional single stack, you can readily spot the differences, but in terms of measurements they are still the same except for width. But because double stack grips are thicker, they seem like you're holding a brick (at least for me with small hands).

[RacingManiac]

To add on that, the chassis between a SVI/STI style 2011 double stacker and a Para-style double stacker is that the former have more angular and wider frame as well, which means it will not fit in a regular 1911 Holster, where as I believe the Para will, because it is only different dimensionally at the grip to a 1911...

[evo12]

not just magazine difference but system difference.

I briefly recall (from the airsofthawaii review? hammerheads?) that it was similar to the WA system.

The current KJW release is by all accounts based on the TM version.

 

And you forgot the limited KWA release that was almost a clone of the WA Magna series 1?... that was being sold for $50! complete.. which was $2 more than the WA magazines were.. blast..

 

The older KJW clones of the Para and 1911 were WA magna copies although their mags could not be used in WA due to difference in dimensions in the mag and magwell.

 

Here's an old review on the older KJW Para.

 

http://poweredgehawaii.com/Reviews/KJPara.asp

 

I wouldn't doubt that KJW updated to be clones of the TM now but I can't say for sure since I haven't looked into this.

 

A few issues i'd like to address.

 

Hicapa slides can be used on the TM 1911 but you are going to want to do some modifications to get the cycling improved. Guarder makes a capa slide stabalizer that I used on my TM 1911 to fit a SD v12slide.

 

Double stack "single stack" mags like the TM 1911 will not finish a whole mag. Part of this is the design as well as cool down issues. The 1911 mag holds about 3-5 bbs less than the capa mag but has a smaller gas capacity. It's like trying to get a car to perform the same on half the gas tank capacity.

 

I would not go with clones. First of all, TM quality is always better than the clones that copy it. Clones are also cast with pot metal. You'll get much more performance by saving your money for a Guarder slide (although it's still cast), or even better, a CNC PGC or SD slide.

 

If you don't mind a double stack para feel, you can get a TM hicapa (or capa clone for that matter) and the Tanio Koba combat grip which makes it feel exactly like a Para. You also get improved capacity and "mileage"

[nines]

Just want to say that I've had a WE 1911 (new tactical version) and the KJW 1911 (2nd version) and the KJ is much better than we in my opinion. parts are tighter, hop is more responsive, real steel grips fit better and it generally feels better made. far different from what i expected from KJ.

[Spencedaddy]

so let me get this straight...the TM 1911's have a "thinner" double stack mag, and an actual single stack mag available.

 

the WE's/WA's have the real single stack of bb mags

 

the KJW's have the same stuff available to the TM's

 

and KWA has the same stuff as WE

 

also

 

single stacks can't finish the mag

single stack size double stack mags DEFINITELY can't finish the mag

and the double stack large mags make the 1911's grip the same as a HICAPA

 

TM's plastic and amazing

WE's ######

WA's kinda ######

KJW's ######

KWA/KSC ######

 

is that about the jist of everything? unfortunately i don't really have the money for a TM 1911 and a nice metal slide.much less a full metal kit.so i think that the WE might be my best bet.since its all metal already, and not too shabby......

 

so.....WE.....yay or nay

[RacingManiac]

so let me get this straight...the TM 1911's have a "thinner" double stack mag, and an actual single stack mag available.

 

the WE's/WA's have the real single stack of bb mags

 

the KJW's have the same stuff available to the TM's

 

and KWA has the same stuff as WE

 

also

 

single stacks can't finish the mag

single stack size double stack mags DEFINITELY can't finish the mag

and the double stack large mags make the 1911's grip the same as a HICAPA

 

TM's plastic and amazing

WE's ######

WA's kinda ######

KJW's ######

KWA/KSC ######

 

is that about the jist of everything? unfortunately i don't really have the money for a TM 1911 and a nice metal slide.much less a full metal kit.so i think that the WE might be my best bet.since its all metal already, and not too shabby......

 

so.....WE.....yay or nay

 

not quite....

 

Physically all 1911 mags(provided its an 1911 model gun, not a Hi-Capa or Para-Ordinance), are of the same physical size. As they are replica of a Single Stack Colt 1911 style Pistol(one row of .45 ACP, usually 8 or 9 rounds per mag). Now this mag depends on makers can carry different amount of BBs. WA's carries a single row of 14 bbs, as they stack on top of another(like this: -----------, where each "-" represent a bb). TM, KJW v2, and WEs are carrying 2 rows of bbs, in the same PHYSICAL size mag(like this: /////////, where each "/" represent 2 bb stack diaglonally like so). They are all replica of a SINGLE STACK firearm, but one carries 14 rounds, the other 26 rounds of bb pellets, gas capacity, because of the similar dimension, are practically the same for all of them. A Hi-Capa or a Para Ordinance, are in real steel term a Double Stack "1911", although Para is closer to a 1911 than the Hi-Capa, which is actually based on "2011" design as used by SVI/STI. The real guns are able to hold 14 rounds of .45ACP per mag, stacked like this: /////// in 2 rows. Which is why they are called double stack. They are physically different from a 1911 because their mags are much wider to accomodate 2 rows of ammo, and their replicas shares this style of magazine. Because of the PHYSICALLY bigger mag, they can hold more gas than a thinner single stack-style mag of 1911, but the actual amount of BBs may NOT be different(well they are, a Hi-Capa 5.1 holds 31 rounds, a 1911 holds 26, 4.3 holds 28 rounds, but both 4.3 and 5.1's mag are not only wider they are also longer, which is why the bb count is different.)

 

Due to the fact that a single stack(real steel) style mag is smaller and holds less gas, its harder for those guns that carries more BBs to finish the capacity of BBs if they have nearly twice the bb like TM vs WA.

 

TM is plastic and performs well. WA is plastic and performs well, but costs more. KSC can be had in metal or Plastic, performs ok, costs similar to TM. KWA shares some design of KSC and is technically the same company(maybe?). WE is a clone of TM mechanism, but not the same exact mechanism(which is copied from TM Hi-Capa, not TM 1911, but with single stack style 1911 magazine), poor QC results in inconsistant performance between guns). KJW v2 is an exact clone of TM 1911, but made of metal, performs from all report thus far similar to TM1911, but is metal.

 

If you really want Full Metal 1911, get the KJW. It can use TM mags, and share TM parts and upgrades(not 100% drop-in as there might be tolerance differences).

 

[asinapple8805]

i agree with the guy above me that WE's suck however they are great parts guns. i mean you can get a beavertail, a metal trigger, a flat MSH, a magazine, ambi safety, a decent metal hammer... on and on

 

in terms of owning it to keep it as a whole gun, IT SUCKS.

 

i don't have and never will own a KJW gun so i can't comment on that. From what i've heard, WA guns are great if you have a look in mind and don't plan to upgrade them. TM is by far the best performer stock however they feel very very plasticy (if that's even a word). KSC = lack of parts, therefore bad.

 

regardless of what you do, you are limited to the amount of ammo you can carry with a 1911 "single stack" styled gun just like in real life. if being able to fit the gun in your hand is a problem, do what EVO said and that's buy a TM hicapa and opt for the Tanio Koba Tactical grip.

 

i am currently holding a full metal TM 1911 in my hand and a full metal hi capa with a tanio koba grip in my other hand and to tell you the truth, they don't feel all that different. the hi capa is a little bigger, but not by much.

 

BTW, EVO, you suck for calling that 1911 springfield v12 your gun... haha... it's mine now!