FPS limits for sniper rifles

[RSM]

Uh huh

 

The thing is, 328fps is usually for urban sites, my local sites use a 350fps limit for both their woodland and urban sites. My M4 fires about 365fps but once set up for use shoots 347 and it will reach out to around 45-50m effectively with the hop set and sights dialled in, having trawled through some US forums I see a lot of AEG engagement ranges at 160-180ft, 40-60m and many players in the US seem to run around with 380-400fps AEGs. The only difference is that the BB takes longer to reach the target in the UK players case which will only be evident at the extremes of range so clearly the divide in engagement ranges is not as big as it may seem provided you know how to tune a gun properly. I might be fortunate in knowing what I'm doing but a gun I have tuned for a team mate was forcing a sniper to pick his jaw up off the floor in just how far it could reach out to a small target the person with the 450fps rifle was having trouble hitting.

 

You appear to contradict yourself somewhat in your stating that FPS limits do not develop certain skills and there is contrary evidence in Senor Bear's post as some sites in the UK permit only 328fps with sniper rifles. However, competent field craft combined with a stock VSR running on .25s/.28s will still allow someone to engage from 50m quite comfortably, the minimum range at which sniping in airsoft is often considered starting at.

 

The player and the weapon are equally important really, an excellent player with a poor weapon will still make kills once he adjusts to the things performance, a poor player with a brilliant weapon will not get the most potential out of it. An excellent player with a brilliant weapon will create havoc for the opposition.

[scar527]

At my site here in the US, we have a 425 FPS aeg limit, and most of our engagements occur from 30-120ft.

However, that is just my site, and does not reflect how any other sites play.

Also, we have a 575 fps sniper limit(almost all players use theirs at 550 though), and it is still hard to stalk the enemy as it is a semi-desert area, with long distances between cover. So that still takes a great deal of skill to do. Honestly, i don't think that we can just say" Oh, one countries airsofter's are better than another's". I think it just comes down to who's behind the gun, no matter what country their from. Happy Hunting,

 

Scar

[bitchtits]

its the same old argument again, that fps makes a difference.

it doesnt, if you cant shoot welll, judge range or use field craft having the extra fps doesnt help, you may be able to engage targets at range but then you will just get chased down and shot.

 

i think that EVERYONE should be made to use a rifle at 328/350fps for at least a year if not two,then people may learn to use some fieldcraft.

 

i do run a 500fps rifle but i find i get as many kills with my side arm as with the rifle, mainly beacuse i prefer to stalk players and get as close as possible, because that give me the most thrills, not sitting 50-60m away.

i have the 500 rifle so i can when needed engage targets at long range

 

 

as for the us/uk power differences, i think you will find as said above the extra fps gives no advantage bar the fact the bb gets there slightly quicker, and you may get a slight distance difference but not much,this distance wont inprove the affective(accurate) distance though....ive tryed running rifles to just under 600fps and it made little to no difference over a 500fps rifle.

[Bodgeups]

i find i get as many kills with my side arm as with the rifle, mainly beacuse i prefer to stalk players and get as close as possible, because that give me the most thrills, not sitting 50-60m away.

i have the 500 rifle so i can when needed engage targets at long range

 

Couldn't agree more with that statement (apart from the lack of capital letter usage ). There is something extremely satisfying about being able to move about within the range of other players equipment, and remaining undetected.

 

That is one of the reasons I enjoy airsoft sniping so much. From the sites that I have played at, and the people I have played against, as a sniper you are expected to be shooting from outside of AEG/pistol range. I find it so much more enjoyable to play on the opposite of that notion, and has made for some very good days of Airsoft

[The Bushman]

Power limits should suit your playing environment and typical ranges. I used sub 300fps guns for over a decade, but that honed your skills and judgement. You could not rely on your gun to do the work for you, you had to work to get as close as possible. The limitations of low velocity guns became clearer, as people got good at dodging the pellets. Although the gun may shoot 50m, ambushing an alert target at such range is difficult. So we came to a cross roads....

 

You either speed the pellets up to arrive before the target dodges, or, you make the gun silent; so that the target doesn't dodge at all.

 

My environment, over those years had far more opponents than these days; yet the game still was all about alertness, positioning, stealth and making the first shot/s count. Many newcomers, soon found out that it was not about firefighting and despite being set up for that kind of game.... they struggled to get a clear target in their sights all event, or even fire their gun !

 

Even when I got an APS2, I soon depowered it and prefered it's performance with 110% (clocked about 315fps) spring to the 500fps setup. At least that way, I had no MED. Indeed, the problem with high power guns, is that what extra range you may gain, you certainly lose in the appropriate MED. I guess in the UK, ranges are often closer due to the natural vegetation that is commonplace on many sites, compared to typical arid areas you see many US players attending.

 

This makes it a different style of game, favouring different tactics and power ratings.

 

We still use both high and low velocity guns and just see them as different tools for different jobs. Incidentally, we call our selection of guns, a toolbox, rather than an armoury . Like a set of golf clubs perhaps.

 

Indeed the mk23 (or any pistol) is a worthy tool to take, just by itself and provides the ultimate advantage if your tactics involve mainly prone movement and shorter engagement distances. Where bulkier tools and limited MED and ROF will only hinder your performance and judgement.

 

I've run out of time to type...

 

Good Hunting

[AnotherJesus]

I have 3 rifles now. Only got the L96 because I wanted something different. Yet to really use it.

Anyway. You make a very good point. I don't see so much dodging at my local site. There's always firing sounds going on, due to sheer number of people in game at any point. So it's easy to mask the sound of a 500fps rifle firing. On the other hand, I've not had so much fun with my 500fps VSR as I have with my 350fps M40. The lack on minimum engagement distances is so liberating. The sound it makes too, nothing as quiet in my experience. I can still miss people at 20m, but I've always had a second chance, thanks to proper concealment, and the hard to trace sound. The 2 rifles play very different roles for me. I enjoy both equally. Leaves me wondering what to do with my L96. 350 or 500fps? Maby something in between.

 

To further the original question of what FPS is reasonable. What do people think of the idea of graduated MEDs, for different FPS guns? IE 420fps bolties with a 20m MED, and 500fps, with 30m MED.

[scar527]

Good to see that you guys agree on the low fps thing. I would rather have a 300fps stock vsr than one shooting 500 fps in a woodland setting, due to the fact that you stumble upon people 10m away sometimes, and with that faster shooting gun, you would not be able to take the shot(unless you had a side arm). However in a desert area, with long distances between cover(sometimes 60m+) it really does help to have a high fps gun. I cannot agree more with bushmans idea that his armory is like a set of golf clubs, there is a job for every fps. Also, fps has a lot to do with how you play. Those who enjoy getting up close , and getting that satisfying shot under 30m without being seen, prefer a 400fps and below gun. But there are others, who like to make 60m+ kills, ad prefer 550+ gun. And then there is a middle ground, where most of us are, that like a little of both, and have guns ranging from 430-500 fps. So all in all, fps cannot dictate who is the better player, as we all have are own preferances as to how we play.

 

Also, Another Jesus, I like your idea of the graduated MED's.

 

Thats my 2 cents,

 

Happy Hunting,

 

Scar

 

[TheMightAdam]

We have a supposed 15feet for 400fps and 25feet for 550. What Im getting from the recent posts is that you dont need high fps to snipe. You basically get as close as possible and use stealth to quickly and silently dispose of targets before they have a chance to react. I then wonder why you use sniper rifles? Any sort of gun would do. IMHO a sniper should be taking shots from long range while still using proper field craft. Isnt that what snipers do? Correct me if Im wrong. But I try and engage targets from as far as I can reliably hit them at. While using lower fps sniper rifles Ive had quite a bit of problems with people not even feeling the shots! So I beg the question, is it reasonable to raise fps limits to compensate for low powered rounds that people dont feel or should I have to get close enough that it would be better to use a semi auto AEG or pistol for the kill?

[RSM]

Sniper rifles run much quieter, reliably and consistently than AEGs or GBB pistols, its not uncommon here for people to snipe with appropriately modified TM Mk.23 pistols. Fieldcraft can stop you being seen, only certain 'tools' can prevent you from being heard. In airsoft a sniper isn't necessarily someone who sits in an OP watching a cross road from 70m picking off opportunity targets but can also be someone who can move around the field relatively undetected, engage targets from within AEG or far out of AEG range but still remain hidden from his opponents. Obviously if you have a 300fps Gspec how far away you can be is capped. In your case, yeah, if your opponents can't feel hits at 55m, try shooting them from 40m instead, the onus is on you to remain undetected and thats pretty much what fieldcraft is all about.

 

As to your question, having a sufficient FPS differential between different 'classes' of weapon is entirely reasonable as long as the gap is sufficient combined with the MEDs. For example my local sites run at 350/500fps for AEGs/bolt action snipers, my M4 at the limit can competently hit people at 40m without compensating for drop and people still feel hits at that range. I've seen an L96 that chrono'd at 400fps with .28s (works out as roughly 460fps on .2s, this was with hop set) that quite easily had another 20m range over my M4 and due to the increased FPS and BB weight people were certainly taking their hits at the outer reaches of his range.

 

If you are using a 500fps rifle and people aren't feeling your hits, then get closer, if not and you are having to move into what you would think is AEG/Pistol territory then get yourself a Mk.23 to retain a degree of concealment when you fire

[minijosh]

I wouldn't mind shooting about 450 FPS, I'm shooting 413ish with .25's, but I'd rather be able to shoot straight at the target and not worry about bb's flying the wrong way or up into someones face on accident. The whole stay on target from Star Wars comes to my mind when I see a BB hopping up more than what I wanted. Time for a tight bore.

[RSM]

413fps with .25 ~= 449-453fps with .2

 

I had the same gun as you a while back (the L96 that is) running it stock it seemed to be very consistent with .28s trajectory wise, I generally think that .25s are too light for sniping applications beyond 400fps.

[Jin15]

I'm pretty happy with the FPS rules at my local skirmishing sites and the group I play with. Here's the lowdown...

 

Indoor games - 350 fps max, nothing is allowed to shoot above that. 10 ft minimum engagement range.

Outdoor games - 400 fps max with a 10 ft minimum engagement range, although there is allowance for snipers.

 

But the local sniper rules are a bit complicated, so instead of typing them out here's a direct cut and paste of my state airsoft group's sniper rules...

 

1. Any person armed with a Sniper Rifle is considered a Sniper. Sniper Rifles are defined by the MAA as any Airsoft gun which exceeds 400 fps with .20g BBs. Sniper Rifles must meet the following criteria:

 

1. Use standard capacity magazines (no hicaps or midcaps). Hicap-style would include any winding mags. Typically Standard Mags have a maximum capacity of less than 100 rounds.

- Manual action or semi-auto only - no full-auto capability.

- Cannot exceed the equivalent energy of 570fps with .20g BBs (3 Joules). FPS and Joule measurement will be done with the BB-weight the sniper intends to use.

- Used in an outdoor location that allows these rules to be in effect

 

2. The use of metal or metal-coated BBs by snipers is not authorized. (Graphite is OK)

 

3. Sniper Rifles are subject to chronoing and/or technical inspection (to include mechbox teardown and inspection by qualified personnel) at any time by MAA Officials or Refs.

 

4. Authorized Snipers are restricted to a 50 foot engagement limit. Authorized Snipers may be required to pass a range estimation test.

 

5. Inside of 50 feet, Snipers may not engage a player in any manner (including a surrender) unless their Sniper Rifle has been set on safe and slung or grounded.

 

6. Snipers must be over 18 and MAA Members in good standing. Players from outside of Minnesota, who are not MAA members, will be considered on a case-by-case basis.

 

7. If the player's Sniper Rifle is on-safe and slung or grounded, the Sniper may engage with a sidearm or other airsoft gun which meets MAA FPS limits.

 

8. The MAA standard ratio of Snipers to Refs is 2:1. The MAA reserves the right to regulate or restrict the deployment of snipers in a game based on field size, scenario, available refs, and other discretionary criteria. Any Sniper must identify themselves as a Sniper before a game starts, and must get approval for each game to play under these rules.

 

9. MAA Sniper privileges may be revoked at any time for any reason.

 

10. The Safety Officer, with concurrence from the Association President or Senior MAA Officer on the scene, has the final word on any issues pertaining to Snipers.

 

11. These rules do not pertain to any airsoft gun that shoots under 400fps with .20's.

 

 

Well, those are my local sniper rules. As you can see it's a bit more complicated than just looking at the FPS

I know a lot of US airsofters might believe these rules overly strict, but I'm quite happy with them. They serve to insure that high powered airsoft weapons only go out on the field in the hands of those responsible enough to use them safely, and so everyone stays safe and has a good time playing