FPS limits for sniper rifles

[ARadam6696]

Hi, I came to the Sniper Haven because some of you actually use these velocities.

 

Do you think that a BAR-10 equipped with the EDGI custom kit(barrel, cylinder assembly, sears) which I believe to shooting 650fps with .2s is too much? My local place, abandoned missile site(pretty big) up in Alaska is debating this. I was able to accurately hit a mansized target out to a measured 300feet with .43g bbs. This was probably approaching the outer limits of its effective range but Im pretty sure that with an aftermarket hopup rubber and a little barrel shimming that a 400 fps shot is not impossible. If you actually snipe then do you think these are acceptable limits with a 100foot minimum engagement distance?

 

The current limit right now is:

550-bolt action

450-Semi Auto

400-AEG

[AnotherJesus]

We use a 100ft minimum engagement on guns that are doing 500fps. Works out to be the same energy at point of impact as an AEG at about 2 meters or something. So we feel that's fair. Working on the same principal, if you've got a gun that's poking out energy around the 4J mark, do the calculations, figure out a sensible minimum engagement based on the AEG limits. I don't see that as a problem at all myself. Just chrono the gun with a .43. The energy given out when firing a .2 and a .43 will be vastly different. And the .43 will hold it's energy longer. So figure out your minimum engagement based on what you're actually useing. If you need help with the maths, send me a PM with your fps results from a .43 and I'll get it worked out for you.

[magictomcat]

whatch ou if you shoot by accident a friend finger's near you its going to be messy...

[Senor Bear]

Yes, what everyone seems to forget is that even though it may be the same felt impact at 100 ft as a "standard" AEG at close range, is that funnily enough, they can still hit stuff at close close range, where the "felt impact" is certainly a lot more

That is always going to be the dilemma, who can you really trust enough not to snap shoot someone at a few feet away, or even by accident?

 

analogy

Just because you've pulled the pin on a frag grenade doesn't mean you won't drop it and have it go off by your leg...

/analogy

[The General]

I would not play on the same field with someone using a 650 fps gun. Perhaps if I knew that person and trusted them but that kind of power and using .43 bb's is a real danger IMHO. How many people still use standard safety glasses (lab glasses) and I would expect such a gun to destroy such protection. Even at 100 ft.

 

No, its getting a bit too close to being a real gun IMHO and at very close range (accidental snap reaction fire) you could do some serious harm.

[ARadam6696]

We tested the rifle at point blank range against a pair of rated safety glasses, the result was a small smudge. Also, you really cant compare a real gun to an airsoft gun.

[The General]

Well, you have to remember in the UK something putting out over 500 fps does make it a firearm so in that respect in the UK (as far as I am aware) it would make it a real firearm? I know over 380fps with an auto gun certainly.

Seriously though, you ask this question on a mainly UK forum so please don't be offended if you discover people would rather not line up to be shot by you! As I said, if it were a person experienced as a sniper who would only use this gun at 100ft + at all times, then, and maybe then I might be convinced to let it pass.

 

Now as a player, I have something of a dislike for snipers. I tend to present the lowest profile that I can and as a result I tend to get head shots against me by people using 450-500 fps sniper rifles from 70-100 foot away average. This is really not to my enjoyment and even with my now upgraded ESS NVG goggles (2.8mm polycarb) this is still a very unpleasant experience. I would like to see headshots with sniper rifles banned myself.

 

Now I am trying to have a go at sniping myself and I appreciate these are BB guns and not anywhere as accurate as we might wish... but at 100ft I think any sniper with a reasonable gun and BB's with a bit of practice could avoid the head if possible. Hell I would take a hit if a sniper shouted to me to take a hit or he would engage what ever was visable head even. I am going off topic here... so I will shut up on that!

 

You say rated safety glasses. Please read my previous post.

 

A lot of people use cheap off the shelf standard safety glasses or goggles or mesh goggles. Take such a gun at that limit and hit a pair of such glasses at point blank range. I would be interested to see the result.

 

However I am answering from a UK perspective and thus probably not very relevant to you.

[scar527]

I tend to present the lowest profile that I can and as a result I tend to get head shots against me by people using 450-500 fps sniper rifles from 70-100 foot away average. This is really not to my enjoyment and even with my now upgraded ESS NVG goggles (2.8mm polycarb) this is still a very unpleasant experience. I would like to see headshots with sniper rifles banned myself.

 

A lot of people use cheap off the shelf standard safety glasses or goggles or mesh goggles. Take such a gun at that limit and hit a pair of such glasses at point blank range. I would be interested to see the result.

(Had to cut down a few parts as your post was so long) I completely agree with the headshots rule. Even at a distance, if that was the only shot i had at the time, i would still wait. I would rather lose a few bragging rights than thousands of dollars(even with safety waivers) and know that i am responsible for someone being seriousely hurt. Where i play we have a limit of 575 as a maximum, but then again we have over a square mile to play. My motto, better safe than sorry. Well thats my two cents,

 

Anyways,

 

Happy hunting,

Scar

[RSM]

Actually at 500fps with a .2 an airsoft sniper is classed as a low powered air rifle and only when you exceed ~1329fps with a .2 (12foot lbs) does it become a Section 1 Firearm. Now that isn't going to happen any time soon except with perhaps HPA rigs which don't see that much use in the UK due to the prevalences of the VSR series which produce results than users are happy with within the FPS limits imposed by sites.

 

While everyone agrees that heavy BBs lose energy at a lesser rate than .2/.25s when and the typical flavour of the day for most snipers is .29 there are many reports that at 50m the impact is more heard that necessarily felt. At 33m/100ft having been shot with my own L96 which at the time was doing 420fps with .28s hop set (roughly 480fps with a .2) the sting was comparable to being shot at 10m with an AEG whereas I've been hit in the head by either a .36 or .43 (it was silvery grey) at around 20m (66ft) from a STAR AW338 on propane and that hurt more than I would have preferred it to but funnily enough it was actually a gust of wind that took the BB into me as the intended target was some 45m away from the sniper, I just happened to be just off the line of fire waiting for a medic.

 

The biggest problem with FPS/MED is that people are generally quite bad at estimating range. Myself I like to chose a scope magnification setting at and stick to it, then I get a 5L paint can or something equally head sized and look at it through my scope and memorise the sight picture. If the head is smaller than the sight picture (usually when using a 30/30 reticule I have the head just touching the start of the thicker lines) then I know I am ok to shoot.

 

Power is quite relative really. Is that 650fps with the hop set for .3g+ and you are just feeding a .2 through it for chronoing or 650fps with the hop off so by the time the hop is set for heavy ammo and long shots the hopped rifle lobs a .2 at 550fps? I'd perhaps want you to have a 50m minimum engagement range for safeties sake but I doubt I'd have a problem with that on the field. Similarly, wht if I in the UK build a sniper that kicks out 570fps hop off with .2s but by the time I've set it up with .3s and I'm hitting torsos at 80m when I run a .2 through the gun with the hop unchanged I'm doing 499fps? Does that make my rifle ok because its under the site limit when set up how it is intended to be used with the test ammo?

[conger]

Yes, 650fps at 100ft could work ....

 

I use a VSR rated at ~640fps hopped using 0.2g. I play at a small field, with the same people and everyone knows me and that I use a 640 fps.

 

The minimum engagement rule is 30m [slight more than 100ft] which I enforce strictly. I use 0.29 SGMs. I've had someone fire my gun at me at 30m so that I feel it. I've become good a estimating 30m. This is alot appreciated by my friends.

 

Head shots do occur but I try to avoid and I never aim for the head at 30m!!!!!

 

With a larger field possibly attended by less well know players I am sure 650fps would be an issue and be reason for discussion.

 

650 fps brings with it responsibility.... in short, I can only use my more powerful gun if I can prove I understand and can implement safety regs such as MED estimation, and so on. I am prepared to take a test and prove this to the field. This kinda thing.

 

The earlier comments relating to safety glasses ..... Fire at your own glasses and make sure they are up to the job at close range [worst case ], them buy a new pair and use them. [Don't use the test pair however in case they're good for one hit but not two]

 

650fps can work but the safety rules and understanding of the user are vitial. I for one would have no issue proving my capablity to be responsible in order to be allowed to play with a higher rated gun. As a sniper, I want to little extra range.

 

Good Hunting.

[Trasher]

We've 600fps and 20m MED rule.

We found that spring rifles around 550fps shoot more accurately than 600-620fps setups.

 

And 300ft accurately with .43s with the stock VSR hopup is something I've to see to believe it.

[TDS]

rifles around 550fps shoot more accurately than 600-620fps setups.

^^^^

power =/= accuracy =/= range, you aren't doing yourself any favors by shooting stupidly hard.

[{{RommelsElite}}Pz4]

At my field, we have a 100ft MED for sniper rifles shooting between 450-500fps w/ .2g BBs. If its shooting over 500, the field simply wont allow it, and they are really strict about that.

 

Personally, I'd have to trust you a ton to let you use a gun shooting that hot. I mean, in the heat of battle, who's to say if its 100ft, 75ft, or even 50ft for some of the beginners.

[Noart]

Welcome to Sweden, it works here without any problems.

 

(The legal limit is 10 joule för bolties and 2½ for semis)

 

Klass: Class

S-Avstånd: Minimum distance.

[greg]

I guess it's all about attitude: If you are the typical mollycoddled-nanny-state-playstation-era-health-&-safety-generation-UK-hoody, then don't bother playing airsoft. On the other hand, if you accept that running around the woods may result in injury (tripping over, falling branches, insect bites etc.) then get out there & enjoy it.

 

I've been sniping at 500ish (upto 650 on 'private games') fps for a while & seen a few injuries from point-blank discharge. I've personnaly been involves in two in the last 5 years, both at 500fps.

 

The first was where a guy jumped out of a bush 10m in front of me as I pulled the trigger (aiming at a target 40m away ). The bb split his lip (no face protection). The second was as I took a shot out of a building window. After telling all in the room what I was about to do, one of the guys in the room, put his hand in front of my muzzle as I pulled the trigger,,,,,,,,,,go figure! Both of the recipients (& all witnesses) exonerated me of any blame & enjoyed telling the tale/showing off their new 'Airsoft Injuries'. This is an unfortunate & fairly unavoidable part of airsoft sniping. You take all necessary & reasonable precautions but at the end of the day, it's a skirmish environment not a shooting range.

 

In fact I shot my bare thigh, point blank at 650fps as a kind of safety check. Sure it hurt. The skin was broken & the bruise was there for some weeks but compared to injuries sustained during football, rugby, snowboarding or bmx, it was a drop in the ocean. No broken bones, no stitches required.

 

Accidental breaches of M.E.D. aside & as long as all participants agree & are happy, a bit of common sense & these 'higher' velocities will extend range & improve the game.

 

If your site is worried about scaring off customers with the perceived, potentially life threatening 650fps, it could always reserve this for 'special' games, say once a month, where this is allowed & only the brave/stupid need attend.

 

 

Greg.

[meppie]

For most skirms I play the rule is 500fps for bolt-action. I have a Maruzen L96 which shoots 480 fps with 0.20 BB's and I have more then enough reach to hit the targets I want. Most of the times I only see their heads and when I hit them they only say HIT and I want to keep it that way. To have so much power would only mean I have more minimum range I am allowed to shoot at somebody. If the target is also only wearing goggles and I hit them on the cheek I will hear a lot more words then just HIT.

 

500fps max for single shot snipers is good enough for me.

[snipernoob]

IMO, 650 fps may be excessive but then again I play on a site that has such small average engagement distances that snipers are also limited to 328fps. I have been shot by guns pushing 380 fps (full auto so very close to outside the law) and it hurts like a b***h and its at smaller sites like mine that 500fps cannot be used as minimum engagement distances are pretty much average-maximum engagement distances. This unfortunately creates a disadvantage for boltie users with their only help being that they can be accurate. But again, slap a properly zeroed scope on an AEG (mostly M14s) then you are at a loss with your ROF. Sorry to go slightly off topic but I feel that unless the site owners and the rifle user can guarantee that minimum engagement distances will be properly met, then there is too much potential for injuries and I personally wouldn't allow it.

 

Sorry for the rant

 

Andy

[L4byr1nth]

I guess it's all about attitude: If you are the typical mollycoddled-nanny-state-playstation-era-health-&-safety-generation-UK-hoody, then don't bother playing airsoft. On the other hand, if you accept that running around the woods may result in injury (tripping over, falling branches, insect bites etc.) then get out there & enjoy it.

 

 

The first was where a guy jumped out of a bush 10m in front of me as I pulled the trigger

 

This man speaks the truth... even if he does like his VSR's...

 

Also, the same thing has happened to me only once, shooting at 500FPS. Pulled the trigger on a target about 60M away, only to have a guy in my team about 5 feet infront of me walk into the thing.

 

I apologised, and everything was ok, but I believe he still has a scar near his nose...

 

Ben.

[greg]

1, even if he does like his VSR's...

 

2, Also, the same thing has happened to me only once, shooting at 500FPS. Pulled the trigger on a target about 60M away, only to have a guy in my team about 5 feet infront of me walk into the thing.

 

I apologised, and everything was ok, but I believe he still has a scar near his nose...

 

Ben.

1, I can't help it. If I could get a gasser to fire straight, I'd like that too.

 

2, It does happen. I'm glad your incident ended as amicably as mine.

 

Happy new year.

 

 

Greg.

[greg]

I feel that unless the site owners and the rifle user can guarantee that minimum engagement distances will be properly met, then there is too much potential for injuries and I personally wouldn't allow it.

 

Sorry for the rant

 

Andy

 

 

This is a very good point.

 

I don't think it is possible for a site to guarantee MED's. This is down to the players & if they are poop,,,,,,,,,,,,well, what can I say. As said, it happens to the best of us, let alone the average spacker on his first outing with a newly upgraded sniper rifle.

 

Unfortunately there is no way to guarantee good play of any sort. If you are lucky enough to play at a site, or know players who are fair & good, then fps & med's are secondary. In a way they are irrelevant in all but setting a level playing field.

 

 

Greg.

[bitchtits]

i personlay have no problem with high powered rifles 500fps or up, but again as long as very one using them can use them properly, which sadly isnt the case.

 

ive been aloud to use my guns that have fired over 500 on my site before but only becuse ive played there for years with the same players/owners and had worked , im very trusted to be safe with them, and have been told that if they couldnt trust me then no one on site could be trusted.

*touch wood* ive never had a single accident in the 8 years of me playing.

 

my main problem though with high powered rifle is that any f*nny can now pick one up and use them,especialy since the chinese guns have arrived, all i ever hear is what/how can i upgrade my NEW rilfe to 500fps, 420 isnt enough, and most the time they havnt even used it, this does tend to be the newst and younger players.

 

i prefered it when i started airsofting when you couldnt just use a 500fps rifle and had to be over 21 and trusted to be safe with it. i liked this for 2 reasons.

you HAD to use a 328/350 rifle to start which ment people worked on field carft more and cared lass on power

then if you were allowed you could be trusted not to be a f*nny with it.

 

 

this i an example of why people shouldnt be aloud to use them,unless trusted

 

during the summer i was at a weekender game, 9-10pm at nigt when it was pitch black me and another player were walking back to the safe zone to hear a shot been fired at us,luckily it went between our heads(we were walking side by side), the guy who fired it was only about 15m max away.

when questioned on what fps(500fps) it was and what distance it was(we have a 30m med) he told us not realy seeming to bother, his excuse was it was dark and he couldnt tell how far away we were........ i nearly put him on his *albatross*...

back at the safe zone after talking to the staff they called that no high powered/ 500fps rifle were aloud out,still people though it was fine to use 450 because it wasnt 500,even though it was obvious that they ment no rifles over 350.

some people just shouldnt be alowed to use them.........

[TheBauer]

Bitchtits

 

I know how you feel, i had this very rant bout a year ago if not longer when all the china airsoft sniper rifles were becoming the "in" thing, one point the site i was playing at had more "snipers" that door kickers because they all wanted the long range shooting, not that to be fair most of them wernt very good and soon gave up. the games became slow and boring.

 

but still its like people buying their rifles that fire at 450, and first thing is i want it at 500 before they have even shot it, and your right, some of these people lack the common sense or the decency of knowing when to shoot and when not to shoot.

 

you just have to hope that half the players that buy them, soon give up because

 

a) its not as easy as it looks

the game is very different to spray and pray

c) a new shiney aeg is released and thats going to be their new toy.

 

i feel your pain dude.

[RSM]

I suppose I fit into the good side of those people who bought in on the whole china clone thing...I got a Warrior 1 about 2 years ago because I like L96s and wanted to try out sniping. While it wasn't doing as well as the more heavily tuned stuff I had read about it was flinging .2s out at 480fps out the box and 20fps really isn't that much to fret over. Additionally in range testing I was hitting a torso sized target easily at 50m with .28s and combined with field craft what more do you need from a sniper rifle if you are just setting out to try?

 

As it turns out I didn't like bolt action sniping due to the layout of the L96 for a game where you might need to move around a lot (nature of my team, we need DMs with a bit more reach than dedicated snipers) so I set about building a semi auto AEG that runs at sniper levels (my sites have specific rules fps wise, lower than BA but more than full autos) but as a bit. One thing that I don't like about bolt actions is the amount of movement generated when recocking due to compressing the spring, which is why I built the S-AEG.

 

At the same time I'm working on a Tanaka which I intend on running up to the permitted bolt action limit for the days I want to work alone.

 

But yeah, it was a bit...irksome to see a number of sprogs running around at the GZ 08 weekender using two tone Bar-10s at targets no more than 20m away if that.

[Armyart19]

My local site has a 500FPS limit for snipers with a 125 MED! I think 125 is a bit far. I have gone to sites where the MED's are 75-100 ft for sniper rifles and I think thats a good distance. Like everyone has said already, if you have a responsible person using a 500fps or above rifle you shouldnt have a problem. But when you have irresponsible kids running around with modded BAR-10's shooting people from under 80 ft, you have problem.

[L4byr1nth]

How many metres is 80 ft?

 

 

Ben.