navymp28 Posted November 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 Well for my illustration I am leaning tword Multicam right now. In my mind I was thinking along the lines of the Rhodesians in the middle of a "force modernazation". The reason I am thinking MC is it is not that difficult to get anymore and has become less expensive. I don't see the rhodesians useing Crye stuff but local produced stuff in the pattern. Like Rhodie short shorts in MC. I could even almost see them getting the Chinese clone Multicam it works like the Crye material...just not IR treated. I can see them produceing local chest rigs in the pattern as well. It would be intresting to say the least. As far as the rifle goes I would think there would be plenty of FAL's and G3's still floating around but I would think Galil's and maybe FNC's would be creeping in. I can't see G36 and the like because H&K is so damn expensive. But I dunno. Link to post Share on other sites
kodiak22 Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 I guess that could work, depending on how you picture the country is doing economically. Heres a time line I made from one of my theories, base on a report i did for school. Rhodesia is pretty peaceful, though there are small insurgencies, and terrorist attacks, think Israel. Quick low-down: 1965- UDI declared, sanctions start. 1980- First step towards integrated/ majority control, and First black African elected to senate. 1982- U.S. under Reagan recognizes Rhodesia and establishes economic ties, UN, and UK strongly oppose. Soon after Israel, Canada, and South Africa Recognizes Rhodesia, and starts to prosper again. 1990- deploys troops for a foreign war for first time. After war they become one of Americas closest allies, and also becomes close allies with Israel. 1993- New power handed to Black Africans, Now 2/3 of Senate, and House of Assembly are black Africans, though the White minority still controls the presidency, and most higher offices. Though not what everyone want, they seem happy with it, and it seems to be working for them. 1994- New government of SA demands full majority rule in Rhodesia, Rhodesia responds by severing ties with SA. 1995- UN repeals the resolution for sanctions against Rhodesia, Russia recognizes Rhodesia. 2000- Great Britain recognizes Rhodesia, and establishes economic, and political ties. 2001- Rhodesia agrees to send troops in support of Operation Enduring Freedom. 2002- U.S. under George W. Bush, forms a formal alliance to deal with the many problems in Africa, headquarters for AFRICOM is located in Salisbury, RSF starts a modernization program similar to the U.S.'s FCS/FFW program, and the UK's FIST program. 2002-early 2009- insurgencies, and terrorist attacks seem to have slow down 2009- ZANU, and ZAPU declare all out war against the Rhodesia Government, The Bush War Begins Rhodesia is force to pull out of Iraq, and Afghanistan. The US and Great Britain have said they would help how ever they can, though they are strained with the Current wars in Iraq, and Afghanistan. Piano's questions with my answers 1) What events will be determined to be "key event," and what will the end result be in the governing structure? Changes in the government, recognition, wars 2) What political and economic ties will be formed or broken? Formed= with US, Israel, and UK are the Major ones, Broken= South Africa 3) In terms of arms and armament, how much of it will be indigenous designs, and how much will be imported? A mixture of domestic, US, Israeli, Belgian, and to a lesser extent German. As you guys can see here, and from my post here, my mind is a complete 180 from what everyone else thinks . So Flame On! Edit: Darn you Navy, you beat me to about the force moderization. and i thought HK made the G36 to be very cheap? oh well back to the drawing board again hahaha. Link to post Share on other sites
navymp28 Posted November 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 Kodiak that is kind of where I was was in thinking on this...and scary thing is that is very similar to a comic book I have been working on...just replace Rhodesia with Texas and leave out some other small points...so I think it is really cool...and in the direction I was going for as far as the illustrations were concerned. Link to post Share on other sites
kodiak22 Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 Kodiak that is kind of where I was was in thinking on this...and scary thing is that is very similar to a comic book I have been working on...just replace Rhodesia with Texas and leave out some other small points...so I think it is really cool...and in the direction I was going for as far as the illustrations were concerned. Wow, thats funny about it being similar, for the most part of my report it was Wiki in the beginning( and i did make sure to check the info first), then after that it was just brain storming. I've got more info i actually wrote in the report, but i don't think ill post that as its like 10 paragraph long, and don't think people would want to read it. I'm working on a revised list again, and here's i question i don't know if ill get in trouble for asking because its RS. But how much do you think a Government pays for a weapon? 1/2 price? 1/3 price? I'm asking because I'm my theory, Rhodesia is no longer "poor", but they also don't have the spending of lets say the US either. Link to post Share on other sites
navymp28 Posted November 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 Well I know certain military units don't own their guns they lease them...as weird as that sounds. Link to post Share on other sites
kodiak22 Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 Well I know certain military units don't own their guns they lease them...as weird as that sounds. Okay thanks, i guess ill just have to guess guess on the guns. Link to post Share on other sites
Akinnen Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 I would go like this with one of this: rooivalk/desert tigerstripe/rhodie RAID EPHOD (one guy also mentioned it, thumbs up mate, great minds think alike) fnc/galil(r5)/beryl commando lookalike Link to post Share on other sites
Jagdraben Posted November 7, 2009 Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 I think that Temperate MARPAT would work, as the colors are very similar the old Rhodie camo, and MARPAT is in use with a number of American allies. Link to post Share on other sites
Misfit Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 If this gets anymore off topic I will just lock the thread. Back on topic please. Navymp wanted suggestions, not a random political debate. Link to post Share on other sites
navymp28 Posted November 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 I think that Temperate MARPAT would work, as the colors are very similar the old Rhodie camo, and MARPAT is in use with a number of American allies. Hmmmm...you really think it would work in the bush though? I dida quick illo of a RLI Fireforce operator 2009. Light weight armor carrier, Combat shirt, Lib II's, Merrels, FNC. Link to post Share on other sites
Jagdraben Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 Only one way to find out! And, surely, it must work better than white t-shirts, khaki shorts, and exposed skin! Link to post Share on other sites
navymp28 Posted November 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 That is true....Now all I need is some one that lives in an area that resembles the African Bush to put on some MARPAT and take a few pics Link to post Share on other sites
Akinnen Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 addon to my previous post: Desert Tigerstripe in similar environment Link to post Share on other sites
navymp28 Posted November 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 Quick RLI Fireforce 2009 from my sketchbook. This is Ver 1.0 and might be tweeked and changed. This is just a doodle I decided to throw some quick color on to give and idea and see what MC might be like. My scanner is OOC right now so I had to go the Iraq scanner way and use my Digital Camera. I renderd the FNC kinda big but in cartooning it is a trick to make the gun stick out. I still need to sit and just draw FNC's for a little bit to get the subtle lines and curves of the receiver and what not. The Armor is supposed to be a TOY SOLDIER Mid threat body armor carrier. I liked the look of it and thought it was a neat idea for an armor carrier. The uniform is supposed to be a locally produced Multicam (or Multisham) combat shirt (design similar to the CRYE FROG 2 for the USMC) and a pair of Multicam trousers similar to ACU cut. Mechanix gloves, and LIB II's for comms. I left the Cover off for some reason I think the Rhodies would have not worn covers alot and kevlars. Alot for the pics I have seen of the Fireforce guys they were sans cover, but I can see why they were doing helo ops. I am still unsure of the helicopter that would replace the Alouette. I am leaning tword a Puma or the Eurocopter EC-145. Link to post Share on other sites
Jagdraben Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 I hate to make it more gucci, but FN is selling the SCAR to any and all military customers, it's not just an American weapon system. (Image of French DGSE combat divers with SCAR.) Otherwise, I would think that a Galil-based platform would be more likely... not that Rhodie troopers would like such a heavy weapon system, especially the Selous Scout-type folk. I would imagine that a booney would be appropriate for a cover and a local variation of Eagle's RRV might be in attendance, too. (The first 'R', methinks.) Link to post Share on other sites
sandstorm Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 For long-time camo use, Finnish cammies didn't change from M/62 until M/91, nearly 30 years. In a way, Finnish equipment changes _might_ be a bit of guideline for 'defense on shoestring budget'. Major changes didn't really occur between 60's and 90's in the infantry equipment, just force-wide adoption of camo and assault rifle. Bigger changes were in air defense and armor equipment, and even those were few. I could see Rhodesian DF, sanctions or no sanctions, spending money on transportation assets and protection for same. Infantry could use whaat had worked so far, but the more technical side would be invested in. Where that would start to show on infantry would be, from 90's on, in the way individual soldiers started to add on armor and personal comms. Weapons might start to acquire attachment points, but overall, the main thrust could still be in ensuring that the troops can reach the places they need in some safety, ie. mine-rpoof APCs/IFVs for more troops, while helo units having wicked mix of transport and attack/suppression helos. One thing to consider for you working on the actual history; don't forget that Rhodesia wouldn't be existing in a void, it's presence would affect the way its neighbours would be going. It could extend even to Europe, for all we know, with tensions between pro-Rhodesia and pro-Zimbabwe parties tearing at inter-EU lines. Link to post Share on other sites
navymp28 Posted November 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 I would imagine that a booney would be appropriate for a cover and a local variation of Eagle's RRV might be in attendance, too. (The first 'R', methinks.) Yeah I am working on some stuff with RRV's already and Boonies I hope to have something done in the next few days. Any feed back on th illo? *suitcasey*, decent, Go F-your self I don't care for comics..anything? Link to post Share on other sites
Jagdraben Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 It's decent. I mean, it's a nice way to express a concept for a load-out before ever having to lay money down on new kit, so it's definitely handy! Link to post Share on other sites
Bob_Marley Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Point on the boonie - if you're going to go with a boonie (And I wouldn't, the iconic image of the Rhodesian soldier is with a flap-cap) it would be more appropriate to use the South African (High crown, short brim) rather than the American style. Link to post Share on other sites
Future Advisor Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Alright let me take my own personal stab at this. MP: I like the drawing - looks like a sketch from a rockin' sequel to Garth Ennis's .303. The following attempt at a loadout represents a possible iteration of what might have happened if the Reagan administration could no, for political expediency, ackowledge Rhodesia, but supplied them covertly, similarly to the Contras. Legitimacy came officially in the US early in the first Bush administration as he looked for ways to keep foreign committments down and set himself up to cash in on the peace dividend in the '92 election. It was later solidified as a Clinton reaction to embarrassments of action/non-action in Somalia and Rwanda in the face of a debilitated South Africa following elections there and the need for some sort of reliable ally on the African contient. Eventually, Britain and others like Israel ackowledged as a country. As a result, of this Rhodesia received a steady supply of US hand-me-downs with the feeling that the military Rhodesian would not need supplies like Israel, who was fighting a much more highly trained, numerous, and for many, "real" threat to the US than the Rhodesians were. They do get some modern, high-tech shipments though, especially since the RDF continues to be a small infantry-heavy force. The US supplies are more to keep the Rhodesians fighting, and to help them keep the continent quiet without need for US troops to go to ground. With the collapse of white South Africa, and the need for money on the part of the new ANC-run nation, a lot of Apartheid-era equipment and soldiers went to Rhodesia, as reflected below. RLI Stop Gunner RLI Stop Gunner Kitlist Hand-me-down US SPEAR BALCS vest with locally made MLCS ammo bag, med kit pouch, HSGI-copy pistol pouches, and large GP pouches attached in a fashion similar to the old Fireforce vest. Old US radio handset and MBITR US GPS for stomping around the bush Mk43/M60E4 (couldn't agree with you more about this being a weapon of choice, MP) and Elcan Glock 17 with extra magazines Merrel MOABs Old South African Police 2nd Pattern uniform - surplused in great numbers and sold through third parties to Rhodesia Best, Evin Link to post Share on other sites
TheMerchantOfVenice Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 I knew you'd post it up. Sick kit. Link to post Share on other sites
Jagdraben Posted November 26, 2009 Report Share Posted November 26, 2009 Point on the boonie - if you're going to go with a boonie (And I wouldn't, the iconic image of the Rhodesian soldier is with a flap-cap) it would be more appropriate to use the South African (High crown, short brim) rather than the American style. I don't suppose you've got any pictures of the flap-cap laying around, do you? I know of a guy who is building a bunch of retro gear in modern patterns and I might ask him to make one up in MultiCam or MARPAT. Also: What does anyone/everyone think of this company's 'Bushveldt' pattern? Link to post Share on other sites
Akinnen Posted November 26, 2009 Report Share Posted November 26, 2009 I don't suppose you've got any pictures of the flap-cap laying around, do you? I know of a guy who is building a bunch of retro gear in modern patterns and I might ask him to make one up in MultiCam or MARPAT. Also: What does anyone/everyone think of this company's 'Bushveldt' pattern? It's interesting, but it's not their pattern - it's Begadi Rooivalk camo. I mentioned it before, that I would use it in this what if scenario... Link to post Share on other sites
Bob_Marley Posted November 27, 2009 Report Share Posted November 27, 2009 I don't suppose you've got any pictures of the flap-cap laying around, do you? I know of a guy who is building a bunch of retro gear in modern patterns and I might ask him to make one up in MultiCam or MARPAT. These are just of a quick google, you'll probably be able to get some better ones if you had a bit more of a thorough bash at it Link to post Share on other sites
kodiak22 Posted November 27, 2009 Report Share Posted November 27, 2009 I don't suppose you've got any pictures of the flap-cap laying around, do you? I know of a guy who is building a bunch of retro gear in modern patterns and I might ask him to make one up in MultiCam or MARPAT. Also: What does anyone/everyone think of this company's 'Bushveldt' pattern? You mean like Rhodie Brush, but in MC, or Marpat Colors? Link to post Share on other sites
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