KWA VZ.61 Skorpion GBB

[Brigg]

The KWA skorpion has been an anticipated release for a lot of people waiting for something a bit easier to obtain the a Maruzen Vz61. I finally was able to pick one up 2 days ago, and put it through its paces at a reaction course.

 

 

Onto some common questions, no the gun is not full metal as some have claimed. And no, the frame is not metal either. The gun is entirely made out of rather heavy plastic.with the exception of the locking bracket for the stock, various pins and switches, and the outer barrel. It is, however, very heavy. It doesn't *feel* like the average plastic gun. So while the lack of metal externals is a disappointment, it still has a very nice heft and a good solid feel.

 

 

The stock itself, is actually kind of wobbly and a little disappointing. The wobble comes from both the locking mechanism, and a slightly loose fit in the stock bracket. Of course, real skorpions have some wobble as well, but the kwa stock wobbled when both open AND closed. I might try bending the front sight out a little to see if that can be corrected.

 

 

The internals seem to be made of steel, or at least aluminum. Usual KWA fare though, I wouldn't expect to have any trouble with them any time soon.

 

Accuracy seemed to be very dead on for the 50 or so foot range I was using it, firing at 6 inch steel targets. My only real issue was that I kept thinking the sides of the front sight were the front sight post. I'm not used to the sight picture yet. But accuracy seemed more then reasonable.

 

The firing rate is unfortunately very high, which empties the 20 round mag in about a second, meaning its usefulness on full auto is limited at best. a rate reducer is cosmetically featured in the grip, plunger and all. However, as there is no catch to grab the bolt and lock it, it is completely non functioning. Therefor the rate of fire cant easily be reduced to something more useable.

 

Overall i feel that this release is a bit of a mixed bag. On the one hand, it is very weighty and solid, however it just seems very unusual for it to have been made of plastic, especially after all the SHOT Show claims of full metal. The loose fit of the stock seems kind of cheap, but it is very accurate in semi auto. I wasn't missing many shots at all.

 

Perhaps in the future someone will come out with a metal kit to really make this the gun it should have been. For now though it is quite useable and a good deal if the VZ61 is your kind of gun, and you dont want the hassle of tracking down parts and mags for the older Maruzen.

[Safeword]

I have to ask sins I (and a lot of other people) have been wondering about this, are the delayed blowback in the grip just for show or does it work?

[Brigg]

No. I actually covered that in my relatively short first impressions. The rate reducer is cosmetically present. The spring and plunger are in the grip, and the plunger even portrudes into the receiver. However, rather then having the catch and knocker that a real reducer has, its only a aluminum buffer with a rubber pad. So the plunger system doesnt do anything (Normally it would unlock the bolt, but nothing catches the bolt). So the reducer is only there for completion's sake I guess.

 

However, the existing buffer seems to stop the bolt before completing its full travel, if one were to make a somewhat shorter buffer, increasing the bolt travel, the ROF could likely be reduced slightly.

[jv83]

I think it was the Ra-Tech  video on youtube where they stated which of the internal parts were steel and which were alu or pot metal. Making a new buffer might be a good idea to slow the crazy ROF. Thanks for the review Brigg, lets hope that a full metal kit will be made.

[renegadecow]

Kinda blows that the rate reducer is only cosmetic. I remember a promotional teaser some time back and they were bragging all about it too. For slowing down the cyclic raterate you could put in weaker recoil springs. And since everything is made of plastic, is there any noticeable flex anywhere like the magwell?

Edited November 11, 2014 by renegadecow

[GlockworkOrange]

I'm having the KSC Taiwan version delivered today, which seems to be the KWA version with different trades. I'll report back when I get it. Plastic doesn't bother me, and it's labeled as heavyweight so it should have a high metal content in the polymer like most HW KSCs. It's annoying how people call it full metal though, just like people do with the M11. It's mainly US shops who do it, but in Redwolf's embarrassing review of the gun, Tim says the upper receiver is steel. Can it really be that hard to tell steel from plastic..? 

[renegadecow]

^

In some cases, yes. Like WAs old heavyweight abs which even has that slightly orangeish tinge that steel gets when handled long enough. Marushin's HW abs is also a good example, but turns to a more grayish hue as it gets oxidized and can be confused for zinc diecast.

[GlockworkOrange]

From a visual standpoint I agree that HW can look like metal, especially once worn a bit, but I really meant feel. Even the best HW resin can't replicate the cold metallic feel of steel, plus it sounds different when handled and wouldn't have any flex. Tim even put a magnet to it, but it must have been drawn to the steel internals. I was just very surprised he could make that mistake despite handling the gun throughout the video, unless it was intentionally misleading and they hoped nobody would notice when they bought it, like lots of retailers do with the M11. I don't belive KSC/KWA have ever produced a metal SMG.

[renegadecow]

Well, that's Tim for you. He's only paid to look good on camera.

[FireKnife]

Well, that's Tim for you. He's only paid to look good on camera.

 

He can't even get that right .

 

However I was tempted by this but I am not so sure now the rate reducer is bogus. Might as well wait for the PM and buy a pair of them instead.

 

'FireKnife'

[Stuey]

RedWolf 'reviews' are a joke, I facepalmed when he stuck the magnet all over the receiver and concluded that it was steel. That particular video has the half-assed David Attenborough theme that makes it painful to watch, I wish they'd either give up or start taking it seriously.

 

While disappointed at the lack of metal, I'm still very tempted by this to replace my Maruzen. Sounds good so far.

 

What we need to do is all buy them so they're popular and a steel receiver gets made.

[FireKnife]

I think a steel received is likely to be made anyway as someone will mention it somewhere and a company will pick up the potential promises that the OEM company failed on.

 

Still would have been nicer if KWA did it in the first place.

 

But yes I recall the RW days of Arclight, he splurged a bit on some reviews but at least he gave a shorter, more concise review with less silly BS than what we get now. Still saying that I have never really found any retailer presenter reviews to be that great, mostly as they feel like either they are appealing to idiots or you know that they are trying to sell you the gun and issues will be covered up etc.

 

'FireKnife'

[Brigg]

There is no noticeable flex anywhere in the gun really. The plastic is quite thick, especially by the mag well. Its very, very sturdy. For a plastic gun, that is.

[GlockworkOrange]

There is no noticeable flex anywhere in the gun really. The plastic is quite thick, especially by the mag well. Its very, very sturdy. For a plastic gun, that is.

 

Agreed, just got my KSC TW version. It's much more solid than I expected, and I do see now how a quick fondle could leave you with the impression it is full metal. It's probably the coldest feeling HW I've felt, must have a very high zinc content. Everything was ultra stiff out of the box, to the point where I couldn't get the mag in without hitting it against a hard surface, but it's started to loosen up now, as has the selector and stock. It's not as wobbly as I expected, better than my old Well one. It is a shame that it rattles when folded though. Shooting is snappy even on Abbey Ultra, so all good so far. Interesting has a KWA label on the trigger guard, which points towards the KSC TW and KWA versions being identical except trademarks. Mine has a KSC stamp and various serial numbers over it, faintly laser etched. Now I just need to figure out if a RS wood grip will fit!

Edited November 11, 2014 by GlockworkOrange

[Brigg]

a RS grip should indeed work, as i have seen KSCs with wooden grips already. Also, you can get a wooden grip for $1.99 USD. so not a big investment if it needs work.

[GlockworkOrange]

I've seen some very cheap grips on US sites, but most won't ship to UK. Cheapest I can find inside the EU is £30.

[Brigg]

I might just pick up a few since they're so cheap. If they have the quantity, I wouldn't mind shipping a few overseas for the shipping cost. At $1.99 I don't even care about the cost of the grip.

[Stuey]

I'm almost set on getting one of these to replace my Maruzen, all looks good. How are you finding it so far?

[GlockworkOrange]

I really like mine. I originally used Abbey Ultra, but with Guarder Gas its so much more snappy, and the ROF is much more satisfying. Performance is good with Guarder, but not exceptional. It shoots similar to a TM pistol, maybe not quite as consistent but this is far more fun to use than any handgun. No obvious issues so far, and I rate it as the most solid plastic gun I've owned. Very happy so far!

Edited November 14, 2014 by GlockworkOrange

[Stuey]

What's the difference between the Japan version and the not-Japan version? Jap one is significantly more expensive (and according to eHobby, less powerful).

[GlockworkOrange]

What's the difference between the Japan version and the not-Japan version? Jap one is significantly more expensive (and according to eHobby, less powerful).

I'm not sure exactly, but it's usually different trades (usually more realistic, sometimes individual serials), slightly different surface finish (usually a bit higher quality, TW versions are a bit more basic), and as you say Japan version is lower power as it's made for the domestic market. TW versions are made for export and usually metal rather than abs. Ehobby seems to sell mags for the JP version and TW separately, so I assume the mags are also finished differently. They should be mechanically the same except power.

[Ryaw]

And after 1 year of silence on this thread, I thought I'd ask a few questions, as I'm interested in this little gun for CQB:

 

1) How are the VZ61's performing now? (hopefully having been used plenty in the past year)
 

2) What are your impressions of the 40 round mags compared to the 20 rounds mags, in terms of gas efficiency and ergonomics etc?

 

3) Any upgrades carried out, like replacing the hop unit and inner barrel, or preferred gasses?

 

I've heard mixed reviews about the 40 round mags, some saying that they don't hold enough gas to empty all the rounds, so I was wondering if they are worth the hassle?

Cheers.

[Cire_]

One of thoose weapon i really would like to have, but not really sure i'd use it enough. But it's a beauty, thats for sure. 

[dapprman]

Had one which I bought second hand from a reviewer on another forum. Was fun but

• In CQB no advantage over a pistol if you have an extended mag, but larger and heavier
• Outdoors, pistol range and on auto too high a rate of fire
• Also found the long mags struggled to hold enough gas for a whole mag
• Playing with it in January at ~0 degrees it suffered very badly

Sold it again, but only because some one else was after one and I wasn't using it.  Was fun but not practical.

[nikky]

Gear wise, it is challenging.
Personally, I would ditch the charging knob on the side where you are going to rest your thumb on it. Replace the other knob with a better single handed charching knob.

You have the folding stock, but when closing it, your suppressor gets in the way.

There are only these options:

• Since it does not come with a threaded barrel, so you either be very creative to friction fit a suppressor and leave the stock in extended position.
• You can buy custom outer barrels with thread, but they are out of stock and too short so you always end up with the folding stock problem.
• 3D print a slightly extended outer barrel sleeve with a thread for 14CCW.
• Ditch the stock and go for a custom solid or side folding stock. Be hard to find one that aesthetically match the KZ61.

Getting an reddot that works with the folding stock is also a challenge😁:

• Improving the iron sights with white paint or fluorecent paint
• Good luck finding a reddot that can go pass between the wirestock

Edited June 28 by nikky