blobface Posted December 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2015 Feel free to drop me a PM with some info and I'll have a look and see if that's something I could achieve "remotely". When I made the APS version "hammer" it took a lot of trial and error prints to get it to line up to the shell's valves, so it could be difficult to design a part without having the rest of it for testing! Link to post Share on other sites
MODDAN Posted December 17, 2015 Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 A team mate of mine has a Hudson cap shotgun I've modified to utilize the Hwa San 6mm shells, but now he's gotten real interested in the idea of using APS shells in the Hudson, but the hammers differs quite a bit between the Hudson and the Hwa San due to the breach-cock feature of the Hudson. So is there any way of making an APS-shell hammer for the Hudson? Link to post Share on other sites
blobface Posted December 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 I have no experience with the Hudson, your question is the same as Cesare's basically but he hasn't been in touch since, I'm sure it can be worked out, but would be impossible for me to do it without actually having a set with me to test the tolerance etc. Link to post Share on other sites
ED-SKaR Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 Don't they both have centered valve buttons? Wouldn't the hammer be irrelevant, so long as the barrels held the different shell in the center of the bore line? Link to post Share on other sites
blobface Posted December 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 Most gas in shell cartridge has push valves that are flush with the back surface, so it's very easy to activate them, however the APS shells' push valves are inset a few mm, so whatever firing pin / valve pusher you use, they'd have to be modified so that it extends into the shell enough to activate the release. Link to post Share on other sites
ED-SKaR Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 Most gas in shell cartridge has push valves that are flush with the back surface, so it's very easy to activate them, however the APS shells' push valves are inset a few mm, so whatever firing pin / valve pusher you use, they'd have to be modified so that it extends into the shell enough to activate the release. so you just need to extend the valve knocker, that shouldn't be 'too' hard. Possibly by fixing a piece of shaped plastic to it, or drilling and pinning a metal extension. Or, you might not need to modify it if it's already fairly long, have you checked? Link to post Share on other sites
blobface Posted December 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 Not really, you can't just extend it because when you have something that's swinging in an arc, just by making something longer, you'd end up hitting the rim instead of the valve, it's the reason why I had to make a different valve pusher for the APS shell mod, so that the pusher is longer, but the over arm is shorter so it swings correctly. As for the Hudson, I haven't checked, which is why I said I have no experience with the Hudson and until I have a set with me I can't tell if it works as is or how to mod it to work. You could bodge it until it sort of works just by extending it and having a curved / shaved off extension so it doesn't bump into the shell's rim, but it wasn't very reliable when I did that so I decided to make a new one that works every time, this should demonstrate it. Link to post Share on other sites
ED-SKaR Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 OK, I get it, that's not the end of the world. Ideas: 1. cut the hole in the breach face to accommodate the larger valve knocker moving upwards. 2. build a spring loaded, in line, button inside the breach face, similar to the firing pins on RS double barrel hammer guns. 3. modify the button on the shell so that the existing valve knocker works with it (that way the gun needs no modification. Link to post Share on other sites
blobface Posted December 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 I'm not sure what we're discussing, because if it's specifically about the Hudson, then it's just empty speculations because I have never handled one or seen its internal mechanism. If it's about APS shells in general, then as you see in the original post I've already solved it with a new valve pusher, whichever way the Hudson works, the solution would be pretty simple, a slightly redesigned new hammer would be able to reach the release valve, but unless I have a set in hand, I wouldn't be able to do anything, which is what those guys were asking about. Link to post Share on other sites
Cesare Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 Hi guys Let me get some photos of the difference of the hammers, mechanism a.s.o. I just haven't got around to taking the gun apart but will do so this weekend Link to post Share on other sites
svman Posted December 20, 2015 Report Share Posted December 20, 2015 Nice work with hammer aps modification. I use the madbull shells myself but the aps shells do look like fun. I would quite like to have one barrel aps and the other madbull ss6. One for long range shots and the other for close up and personel. Link to post Share on other sites
swatti Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 The PPS shells are pure brilliance. CO2, powerfull and VERY loud, also compatible with inner-barrel but dont need one. Not very expensive too considoring how well made they are. Got six PPS shells now, also finished up my over-under shotgun, turned out... Ugly, as expected. Will post pics later on a new topic. Link to post Share on other sites
svman Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 Pretty sure the pps and madbull shells are identicle apart from the anodising Link to post Share on other sites
you can`t shoot me Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 Pretty sure the pps and madbull shells are identicle apart from the anodising Can anyone with both shells confirm this as i have the madbull shells and they are ok but if i use anymore than about 250psi co2 with the wa shan shotgun the triggers are very difficult to pull to the extent that the trigger is more likely to break before shooting. Guarder black gas or less the 250psi co2 will shoot ok with the madbull but with more of a pop than a bang so was wondering if the pps shells are any better with the wa shan shotgun as i also assume they are probably the same. Link to post Share on other sites
svman Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 How old are your shells? If they have been uses alot it might be worth replacing the ball bearings in them for a smoother trigger pull. I think they take 2.5mm if memory serves Link to post Share on other sites
you can`t shoot me Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 The shells are a few years old but haven`t seen much use, I don`t think it is an issue with the shells more that the wa shan triggers are made of cheese and can`t take much pressure. Does anyone else use the wa shan with madbull shells with higher psi co2? I have used my little gana tan pistol with the madbull shells a few times and it works fine with higher powered co2 with quite a bang but still with a stiff trigger pull. Link to post Share on other sites
svman Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 Well if i'm honest i only realy run my shells on guarder black gas since i stoped working in paintball. The triggers arnt very complex thoe so it wouldnt be too dificult to make a set out of stainless steel plate with nothing more than a dremil, vice, needle files and alot of time watching something uninteresting on tv. And if anyone needs replacement hammers you can buy them from evike. I picked up some spares from them and they are slightly tougher than the originels as they have a sort of strut moulded along one side of the pin. Link to post Share on other sites
Cesare Posted December 22, 2015 Report Share Posted December 22, 2015 Ok here is my project gun It is one original Hudson full stock long barrelled cap gun and one hwasan long barrelled mad max. I always wanted a full stock side by side. I have taken the mechanism from the Hudson which lock back the hammers when I break it open and then fires one barrel per trigger. Now when I got the insert tube and ejector from blobface it fits perfectly to apps cam870 shells which in my opinion is the best option. The only problem I got now is that the triggers are too short and fat to positively fire the aps shells My idea is to get a longer firing pin similar to the original ones Here they both are Barrels one with insert the other one without Here are the shells I can use Hwasan 8mm Aps cam shells 2pcs Goblin shells The little stubby hammers https://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/22/ f0f9e32d899da7dc2767e97d2c2d2f5a.jpg Taking it apart Inner parts The Hudson The hammers in comparison Bodies Barrels Stocks Link to post Share on other sites
svman Posted December 22, 2015 Report Share Posted December 22, 2015 Wow its realy great to see what the internals of the hudson look like. I had no idea they would be so close to hwasan madnmax. That stock is a drop in fit too. I had to modify a real shotgun stock to fit. Nice Link to post Share on other sites
svman Posted December 22, 2015 Report Share Posted December 22, 2015 So the question i'm now asking myself is if your project works could a 3d printed kit be made that would allow all hwasan owners to convert there shotties to sprung loaded cocking hammers? Now i for one would buy that in a heart beat and i'm sure many others would too. Link to post Share on other sites
Cesare Posted December 22, 2015 Report Share Posted December 22, 2015 Sure why not. That is a great idea But I need someone with skill, time, patience and knowledge of 3d / cad modelleing. Mr blob? Link to post Share on other sites
svman Posted December 22, 2015 Report Share Posted December 22, 2015 Mr Blobface, the airsoft world needs you. If you made a cnc steel kit with a spring loaded mech and stronger than original triggers with two sets of hammers (one for madbull and one for aps) i would think you could make many people happy and probably some decent cash too. If its a project your willing to take on then sign me up for two sets. I can imagine the cost of all that cad work and milling will quickly add up but you should make it all back once you start flogging them. Link to post Share on other sites
ED-SKaR Posted December 22, 2015 Report Share Posted December 22, 2015 But I need someone with skill, time, patience and knowledge of 3d / cad modelleing. Mr blob? I have a passing familiarity with Inventor. I need to get some practice in. Link to post Share on other sites
blobface Posted December 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2015 I'd be really happy to give it a go! Thanks a lot for the images! However, as I mentioned before, I would really need a set in hand to be able to do that, is that something you might be willing to do? Lend me the Hudson parts so that I'll be able to compose a set based around it for the Hwasan? Link to post Share on other sites
Cesare Posted December 22, 2015 Report Share Posted December 22, 2015 Sure just send me a PM with yout adress. Do you have a Hwasan host gun or do you need a complete gun? Link to post Share on other sites
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