tgrillo Posted October 16, 2006 Report Share Posted October 16, 2006 cause all ptw owners are rich.. Link to post Share on other sites
sgtHanzo Posted October 16, 2006 Report Share Posted October 16, 2006 At this point a tightbore is NOT worth the money...<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks, bud! Wealth of information... Wait I will... Hanzo, out... Link to post Share on other sites
Titleist Posted October 16, 2006 Report Share Posted October 16, 2006 Wait, I noticed you have an Acog on your PTW. Is it even effective or can the bb's atleast stay within the general area where you are aiming. Also could you hit a man sized target at lets say, 50 or 60 yards? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Good call, Hanzo, save your money. Again to buy a barrel at this point would be a huge waste of money. Now to answer KeyChain's question, umm, I'd say general area, but it's so inconsistant. On my TM based guns if the shot is off a little bit at least it'll be consistantly off a little bit. With the PTW it's like playing the lottery. It's all over the place. Sometimes not even ending up in the scopes FOV. Link to post Share on other sites
duckares Posted October 17, 2006 Report Share Posted October 17, 2006 I'll put together a test of the PTW 6.03 tight-bore barrels in a couple of weeks... Doff Custom M16 stock-length 6.03mm & 8oni Custom M16+ length 6.03mm Probably with the M110 cylinder... Link to post Share on other sites
tgrillo Posted October 17, 2006 Report Share Posted October 17, 2006 bottomline is that the systema needs a new design hopup and inner barrel for it to be worth it for people who are not rich and like skirmishing. Imagine a TM/KM/Firefly style V hop + 6.03mm Tightbore in an M150 Systema PTW...MMMMMM Systema, answer our prayers and you will have my $1k!!!! Link to post Share on other sites
Titleist Posted October 17, 2006 Report Share Posted October 17, 2006 Again the Doff and 8oni barrels, while good in the sense that i appreciate their time and skill, are 250-350 dollar parts, which is absurd for something that other AEG owners can get for 30-50 dollars. Owning a PTW does not mean it's right or justified to have to spend stupid amounts of money on stupid purchases. As you said, if Systema incorporated a G36 style hopup and inner barrel assembly the PTW would be friggin badass on the field. So do the comparison between the Doff barrel and the 8oni one, but my problem is still that it doesn't matter which one is better, a cheaper and better solution needs to be found. Because at it's current price these barrels are like a bandaid on a bullet wound. I mean I respect the maker's time and skill, but 650 percent markup on a 50 dollar part? puhlease! Again Link to post Share on other sites
0nslaught Posted October 17, 2006 Report Share Posted October 17, 2006 theres a little video review of the PTW, i love there accents Link to post Share on other sites
Zilch Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 Well since I sell and am a part of the Doff Barrel makings i'll try and be soft here. The barrel's is not a simple 50$ part upped with 650% raise, if it would then why have not everyone else done it? Also there is allot of talks about making a better option. Again why have none done it? To tell abit about the barrels Doff make and I sell. They are made out of systema parts from AEG line up toghter with a highly modified PTW hopup unit. Different rubbers and other tweaks have been done. All of this is hand made and custom tuned for every item. Like the PTW MAX it has been fine tuned and tested in different versions over time. The labor cost toghter with taxes and VAT costs in sweden are like 800% higher then the asian market. But we also have a very high quality check. To what I know we have had only one barrel that did not work 110% out of box and thats out of so far 50 made of them. Remeber that they are all hand made. Best Regards Anders systema-ptw.com Link to post Share on other sites
Titleist Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 Zilch, again I appreciate Doff's and your time, but having tried one of these myself I can't honestly say that dollar for dollar the accuracy was that much of an improvement. That said, again I appreciate your time and effort, but a 350 dollar part vs a 50 dollar one, yeah, sorry but whatever the reasons it's still a ludicrous price for a metal tube. And I sincerly hope that just because PTW owners are used to buying expensive things that they don't just accpet a nearly 400 dollar part as norm for how things SHOULD be. And yes I think a cheaper option will come out. Again I think that a tightbore barrel is not a solution to the PTW's issues, but rather it needs to be a tightbore and new hopup design. new rubbers on the hopup do not fix the major design flaw of the PTW hopup. Link to post Share on other sites
duckares Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 Fitting the Doff Custom barrel by hand & polishing the barrel "feed ramp" slightly will help improve the shot consistency. (The PTW hop-up is designed for a 6.10mm ID barrel. The "feed ramp" increases in profile as more hop-up is engaged. The "out-of-FOV" shots are probably from the deformed BBs crushed against the inner edge of the barrel.) I'll also fit the 8oni Custom barrel when it’s installed. Link to post Share on other sites
Titleist Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 Somehow your statements only reconfirm that a new hopup needs to be designed. Because bbs should not be getting crushed by the inner barrel. Again, a 350 dollar barrel to me is like a band aid on a design bullet wound. So much for the statement of "PTWs are superior" Link to post Share on other sites
duckares Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 My prior post is about fitting the new parts to the PTW… I actually disagree about the “faulty” design of the PTW hop-up. Using firearm terms again. Hand-fitting & polishing the barrel feed ramp serves several purposes: 1. Decrease resistance during the reload/recoil cycle. 2. Decrease damage to the ammunition. 3. Resolve minor differences in each “weapon” & parts to improve reliability & consistency. Using Excel & Airsoft Elite .25g BBs in M16 length Doff Custom barrel (with fitting & polishing of parts), the M16A3s actually have better accuracy over a fully-upgraded TM AUG-SR. With the small production volume and 3+ generations/variations, the PTWs are better quantified as “custom or limited-edition” equipment. How many of the custom airsoft/military gear do we collectively own that falls within the realm of “finicky or testy”??? And yes. I did add o-rings to the Doff Custom barrel assembly to improve the overall accuracy… Link to post Share on other sites
Titleist Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 Duck, I value your time to write that post, but I completely disagree about the PTW's hopup. Sorry man but my APS2's hopup makes the PTW's look positively crude. Again compared to a modern hopup like the M14/G36 hopup most of the inaccuracy comes from the crude hopup mixed with a large diameter bore. I can't believe how PTW owners convince themselves that the accuracy is decent in these guns when by default it's a poorly made hopup. It was designed that way to prevent jams, but by doing so the accuracy is fairly unreliable for skirmishing, something I know for a fact the PTW was not designed for. Again I hear your statement about the hand fitting, but as it relates to the doff barrels I still value their effort to make the barrels, but not the end price. Again I hear what you're saying about the finicky aspect of custom gear, but I think what annoys me is the attitude or statements from the hardcore PTW users that the PTW is better than V2 based M4s/M16s when the PTWS clearly have issues of their own to deal with. Maybe I'm in the minority, but the accuracy is still extremely dissapointing for a gun that's 1200+ dollars. And duck, sorry man but I've tried the doff barrel in my MAX, and I found the firing results to be damn near identical to the stock barrel even with the maruzen .29 SGMs, which are about as perfect of a bb as you can get, again not a fault of the barrel, but a combo of barrel and wonky hopup. I'm sure we can agree to disagree. But having taken apart the PTW hopup it's an extreme dissapointment on an otherwise well engineered gun...well except for the horribly bad looking slide stock on the M4s. Again I don't want to diss things like the Doff barrel, but as a community there will be criticism and hopefully further innovation. IMHO the 350 dollars just isn't equal to the amount of accuracy you get with the upgrade. Link to post Share on other sites
duckares Posted October 19, 2006 Report Share Posted October 19, 2006 Modified the Doff Custom barrel for improved accuracy: 1. Installed an o-ring or shim between the Chamber Sleeve (BR30) and Air Seal Packing (BR29). –To ease horizontal free-play of Hop Adjuster (BR26)-- 2. Added mylar spacers between the Hop Adjuster (BR26) and Adjuster Cushions (BR25x2). – To alleviate vertical free-play of Hop Adjuster (BR26) and increase tension & rebound of the Adjuster Cushions (BR25)-- 3. Dampen the inner barrel near the muzzle with an o-ring. –Different materials have varied harmonics-- (Size the o-rings/shims & mylar sheets with each PTW. Both A3’s ended-up with slightly different o-rings) If these steps didn’t help, then blame the additional 4-inches of the M16 barrel… Link to post Share on other sites
Titleist Posted October 19, 2006 Report Share Posted October 19, 2006 Yeah I tried a bunch of different stuff, but frankly for a 350 dollar part you shouldn't have to then do that many modifications. Link to post Share on other sites
skandarn Posted October 19, 2006 Report Share Posted October 19, 2006 I still havnt seen a normal aeg outperfom my ptw accuracy wise. maybe something is wrong with your gun or maybe you didnt install the barrel correctly. Link to post Share on other sites
Titleist Posted October 19, 2006 Report Share Posted October 19, 2006 I still havnt seen a normal aeg outperfom my ptw accuracy wise. maybe something is wrong with your gun or maybe you didnt install the barrel correctly. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> My stock barreled G36K outgroups my PTW any day of the week. And the results between my Gen 3 and MAX are identical, with both the doff barrel and stock barrel. Sorry guys, but the argument of the PTW being accurate just doesn't fly for me. Maybe you guys got non-sucky guns, but every PTW I've tried has not been that accurate. Oh and I think I know how to install an inner barrel assembly, so frankly I don't think it's in operator error on this one. Link to post Share on other sites
airsoftgi Posted October 19, 2006 Report Share Posted October 19, 2006 Can you guys define the meaning of "accuracy"? I mean what is your ideal effective range and grouping? And, what is your PTWs' grouping and range right now? Link to post Share on other sites
Titleist Posted October 19, 2006 Report Share Posted October 19, 2006 I'd say effective range is basically on par with a stock marui gun, but groupings are sub-par. I'll get weird hooks and slices even with the MAX or Gen 3. Again I blame the hopup, which either isn't consistant or is doing something very odd to the bbs. Link to post Share on other sites
duckares Posted October 19, 2006 Report Share Posted October 19, 2006 I blame the gremlins at Fort Ord!!! Link to post Share on other sites
Titleist Posted October 19, 2006 Report Share Posted October 19, 2006 Damn those airsoft gremlins! Link to post Share on other sites
airsoftgi Posted October 19, 2006 Report Share Posted October 19, 2006 All jokes aside =) We have found the SCK that we put together have an avg grouping of 12 by 12 at a distance of 150 ft. Which of course TM M14 can do at an even greater distance. However, if we can commercially put out a precision barrel, I believe it might solve the problem. BTW, PTW is not for a person with a light budget =) Just a side note: Full auto PTW seem to have less accuracy than the SCK with burst. Just wondering if you guys've noticed. Maybe just an isloated case. Link to post Share on other sites
Titleist Posted October 19, 2006 Report Share Posted October 19, 2006 True, but just because a PTW is expensive doesn't mean it's users should be resigned or accepting of parts that are super expensive. Wether the gun costs a lot or only a little, parts should be fair in pricing. Again, I'd be more happy with a new hopup that helped with consistancy. Range is decent as is. Link to post Share on other sites
duckares Posted October 20, 2006 Report Share Posted October 20, 2006 AirsoftGI, definitely agree with your observation… On semi, the out-of-FOV shots almost never happen while the velocity stays +/- 1fps. The grouping just degrades past burst into automatic!!! (And I thought my chronograph read false during auto…) The PTW does have a rather complicated nozzle & piston head interface within the cylinder units (sealed/leveraged by an o-ring)… Perhaps this also contributes to the shot grouping (in addition to the hop adjuster)… Link to post Share on other sites
Titleist Posted October 20, 2006 Report Share Posted October 20, 2006 Weird, I get the same inconsistancies on semi, i.e 1-2-3 shots in the 10 ring, then 4 and 5 are out of FOV. WHAT THE HELL? Link to post Share on other sites
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