Battery Care....

[The General]

Is there a general rule of thumb about charge output rates and batteries?

 

I have just got the VP 2500 Pro Peak and I am looking at my 9.6v 3700 and 4600 capacity cells and wondering what would be the best all round rate to charge them at safely.

 

I had a 2500 Pro Peak previously but sold it on when I found out it was running at 3.5amps at fast charge rate!

 

I am currently thinking about 1.5amps for the 3700 unit and 2.0amps for the 4600 unit.

 

My 8.4v 1400 mini batts I am thinking at runnig at 0.6 to 0.8amps max.

 

My other charger is a component shop charger that does 300/600 as fast charge or 0.3 to 0.6 amps. I am going to keep this as it also has a rather handy discharge feature for NiCad cells and I still have 2 NiCads both large type 8.4v 1700 and 1900 units.

 

I have been told that NiMH batteries are happy going beyond 3.5amps but that 3.0amps is a safe level for fast charging. 1.5amps for mini NiMH cells. I am not sure though.

 

I was also told to use the following for NiCads rating multiplied by 0.2. So my 1900 NiCad would be best charged at 0.38amps?

 

I have been charging the NiCads at 0.6amps up to now.

 

Opinions?

 

Thanks

 

Wayne

[Apex]

I have the same charger and tend to just leave it set to 1amp, but iirc you could crank it to 3amp and not have a problem other then the heat build up.....

[Almighty]

Is there a general rule of thumb about charge output rates and batteries?

Yes.. and it's somewhere deep in the previous posts of this thread..

 

Anyway...

 

A charge rate close to, or equal, the mAh rating of the battery is considered FAST charging.. and would take approximately a little over an hour to finish.

 

A charge current around 1/4 to 1/5 (or 25% to 20%) of the battery mAh rating is generally considered QUICK charging.. and finishes around 5 to 7 hours.

 

At 1/10 (or 10%) relative to the battery's mAh rating, it's already SLOW charging.. and it would take some 15 hours, or more. to finish.

 

I have just got the VP 2500 Pro Peak and I am looking at my 9.6v 3700 and 4600 capacity cells and wondering what would be the best all round rate to charge them at safely.

 

All the given rates above are safe.. PROVIDED.. the charger has automatic cut-off feature.. or if/when using a manual charger, the user/owner knows how to compute for proper charge time.

 

At FAST charge, use ( battery mAh / charge current mA ) x 1.1

(or 1.2)

= charge time in hours

QUICK charge, use ( battery mAh / charge current mA ) x 1.3

at SLOW charge, use ( battery mAh / charge current mA ) x 1.4

(or 1.5)

 

 

[Sgt_raptor]

The TLP charger's SLOW CHARGE mode is a fixed rate 130-150mA trickle without benefit of full charge detection. It's really intended mainly for charge maintenance stand-by after fast charging cycle has finished. It will keep going forever if left unattended or forgotten.

 

In the case of your 1400mA pack.. charge time will work out to be about

(1400mAh / 150mA) x 1.4 = 13 hours

if computed at 130mA, charge time = 15 hours

Current adjustment does not function when in SLOW CHARGE mode.. it works only in PEAK and FUZZY LOGIC modes.

 

If you want slow, low current charging.. dial adjustment knob to lowest current setting of .5A (500mA) and engage either PEAK or FUZZY modes. That way, the charger's full charge detection becomes operational and the unit will switch over to the 150mA SLOW mode before the cells start overcharging.

 

If you want to speed up, or shorten, the recharging time.. just dial higher current output, and again engage PEAK or FUZZY modes.. the charger will know the right time to terminate the fast charge.

 

That's all there is to it.

Hi Almighty

Have another question for you on the TLP.

I select Fuzzy Logic to charge my Intellect 1400Mah 9.6v battery at a charge of 1.0 Amps.

Charger discharges first-Fast Charge then slow charge.

When the charger goes back to slow and beeps those this mean the battery is charged and ready to go. Or do I wait for the Calculated time I have work out e.g 3.9 hrs. and let it beep at slow charge up to the time I have worked out.

 

The second Question is I can put the dial any between 0.5A up to appox 1.4 A for charging of the battery I have (Intellect 1400Mah 9.6v battery )

Thanks again

[aaronl]

probably asked, but I read the first 10 pages, and couldnt find exactly what I needed...

 

with nimh, I can leave it semi-charged and then charge it up again (at most left in storage for a month) and be fine (I have a smart charger, and always use the slow setting) without discharging it... or do i still need to discharge it??

 

Like I said, at most a month

[The General]

No need to discharge NiMH batteries on a regular basis. Some say no need to discharge at all as they do not have the memory problem NiCADs have.

 

I have yet to discharge a NiMH battery.

 

So, to answer your question, yes you can top up a NiMH battery at will.

 

Bare in mind NiMH cells lose 1%-1.5% of charge on average per day anyway. So you might well find a fully charged battery is only at 50% charge or so after a month. Roughly...

 

This is the major problem with NiMH cells, other than the physical size of them and cold weather performance.

[aaronl]

No need to discharge NiMH batteries on a regular basis. Some say no need to discharge at all as they do not have the memory problem NiCADs have.

 

I have yet to discharge a NiMH battery.

 

So, to answer your question, yes you can top up a NiMH battery at will.

 

Bare in mind NiMH cells lose 1%-1.5% of charge on average per day anyway. So you might well find a fully charged battery is only at 50% charge or so after a month. Roughly...

 

This is the major problem with NiMH cells, other than the physical size of them and cold weather performance.

 

 

but, I can just charge it back up again and it'll be at the original 100%?

 

Thanks for the reply... I didnt expect it to be at a 100%, I just didnt want to to damage the battery if it was left like that.

[The General]

but, I can just charge it back up again and it'll be at the original 100%?

 

Thanks for the reply... I didnt expect it to be at a 100%, I just didnt want to to damage the battery if it was left like that.

 

 

Yes, once fully charged it will be 100% again.

 

Over time you will lose some some charge capacity, but we are talking 100's of charges.

 

Nothing to be concerned about.

[Fellowz]

quick question, i have a 12v battery and a tlp fuzzy logic charger that only charges upto 8 cells whereas my battery is 10 cells i cant afford a new charger after forking out on that its something im not too clever on when it comes to airsoft.

 

 

[crackisbad]

That sounds more like a statement than a question....

[Fellowz]

well here it is what can i do?

[crackisbad]

ah, I see. Don't know, maybe get a new charger? I will let someone with more knowledge on this stuff comment

[Almighty]

with nimh, I can leave it semi-charged and then charge it up again (at most left in storage for a month) and be fine (I have a smart charger, and always use the slow setting) without discharging it... or do i still need to discharge it??

No need to discharge NiMH batteries on a regular basis. Some say no need to discharge at all as they do not have the memory problem NiCADs have.

 

NiMHs actually suffer from "memory" problem just like NiCads.. BUT.. not as bad. Constant or frequent exposure to low current overcharge, storing in charged state and allowing to self-discharge contributes to crystal formation in the electrolyte (that's the physical form of "memory"). NiMHs also benefit from a re-conditioning exercise or deep discharge.. but it need only be done every 2-3 months assuming the battery is regularly used every week.

 

 

So, to answer your question, yes you can top up a NiMH battery at will.

 

Only if using a smart charger with full charge detection. Otherwise, if using very basic chargers that require computing for charging time and manual intervention.. it would be wise to discharge a NiMH before re-charging (so as to start at proper baseline).

 

 

[Almighty]

quick question, i have a 12v battery and a tlp fuzzy logic charger that only charges upto 8 cells whereas my battery is 10 cells i cant afford a new charger after forking out on that its something im not too clever on when it comes to airsoft.

 

There's simple enough solution to this.. and it would not be expensive - charge half the number of cells at a time. I/we've been doing that since the 9 and 10-cell packs came out...

 

Devise a way to clip into the midpoint connection of the 10-cell series.. and charge the first 5 cells.. then charge the next 5 cells afterwards. You will find alligator clips at the end of your charging wires very useful. In as much as the charger will cut-off at the proper charge level each time, the two halves will (theoretically) be equally charged at the end of the process. The only downside to this is you double the time it would take to charge the whole pack.

 

[Almighty]

Hi Almighty

Have another question for you on the TLP.

I select Fuzzy Logic to charge my Intellect 1400Mah 9.6v battery at a charge of 1.0 Amps.

Charger discharges first-Fast Charge then slow charge.

When the charger goes back to slow and beeps those this mean the battery is charged and ready to go. Or do I wait for the Calculated time I have work out e.g 3.9 hrs. and let it beep at slow charge up to the time I have worked out.

 

Computed charge time is, at best, an educated guess based on assumptions of state-of-charge (or discharge) start point.. and charging capacity for the stop point.

 

Intelligent chargers, particularly those that use fuzzy logic, do not rely on assumptions - they actually monitor the battery condition and charge level. So it would be my opinion that a fuzzy logic charger knows better when the battery is already fully charged.. and it will automatically switch from FAST charge mode to SLOW trickle (charge maintenance) mode at the proper time, or maybe just a little advance of going into overcharge. The moment the charge flips to SLOW.. it's really just keeping the charge level up with a 130mA maintenance trickle while waiting for you to disconnect the battery.

 

 

The second Question is I can put the dial any between 0.5A up to appox 1.4 A for charging of the battery I have (Intellect 1400Mah 9.6v battery )

 

YES. the only difference would be the time the cells would top off and the charger to detect full charge.

 

 

[Sgt_raptor]

Hi Can Anyone Help as I have searched this forum and cannot find what Im looking for.

 

I have bought an IMAX B6AC charger for charging my Ni MH intelect 9.6V 1400ma batteries.

 

Is there anyone here have one of these and know how to set it up. The Instructions are not too detailed. I think there should be an Auto and man for Ni MH charging but I can only get Manual charging.

 

Not sure how to set up the Discharge and charge properly etc.

 

 

[Sgt_raptor]

Hi I fiqured out how to change from Manual to Auto.

 

Setting up the Delta Peak on the Imax B6AC Charger. The default is set to 7mV.

 

The battery I Have is as before An Intellect 9.6V 1400mah (2/3A 1.2V)

 

What mV should I set it to , to detect the Delta Peak. ( 5 to 20 mV setting ajustments on this type charger)

 

 

I discharged my Battery pack down to 1V per cell. Is this Ok. Then Charged it for 3 hrs 20 min at 500 ma. Is this ok

[Almighty]

Setting up the Delta Peak on the Imax B6AC Charger. The default is set to 7mV.

 

The battery I Have is as before An Intellect 9.6V 1400mah (2/3A 1.2V)

 

What mV should I set it to , to detect the Delta Peak. ( 5 to 20 mV setting ajustments on this type charger)

Delta Peak setting only determines the detection sensitivity. The lower the number, the more sensitive the charger gets to the voltage dip that occurs at full charge. The downside is the more likely the charger gets fooled by false peaks or power fluctuations (like when charging off auto electricals with the engine running and then the airconditioning cuts in).

 

 

I discharged my Battery pack down to 1V per cell. Is this Ok. Then Charged it for 3 hrs 20 min at 500 ma. Is this ok

The discharge was pretty much as normally prescribed.

 

The charging time.. well.. I find a little short.. unless it was done with the charger's automatic cut-off at delta peak.

[Sgt_raptor]

Delta Peak setting only determines the detection sensitivity. The lower the number, the more sensitive the charger gets to the voltage dip that occurs at full charge. The downside is the more likely the charger gets fooled by false peaks or power fluctuations (like when charging off auto electricals with the engine running and then the airconditioning cuts in).

 

 

 

The discharge was pretty much as normally prescribed.

 

The charging time.. well.. I find a little short.. unless it was done with the charger's automatic cut-off at delta peak.

Hi Almighty

If the Delta Peak can be set between 5 mv and 20mv where would you set it ? I think the default is 7 mV for NiMH battery setting.

 

If you found the charging time a little short , how much is it out. How much more do I need.

 

I have set the charger to charge to 1400 battery Capacity. It reaches 1400 before the timer runs out which is set for 200 minutes. Should i adjust any settings here . I presume that when it asks to set battery capacity it means 1400 ie 1400MAH 9.6V battery.

 

 

Last night I seen the word DRY displayed when discharging the battery. Should I stop discharging or let the charger do what it has to do

[Almighty]

If the Delta Peak can be set between 5 mv and 20mv where would you set it ?

I think the default is 7 mV for NiMH battery setting.

I would normally go by the default.. unless local charging conditions produce power fluctuations which would trip the cut-off prematurely, in which case I'd experiment with a higher threshold.

 

If you found the charging time a little short , how much is it out. How much more do I need.

 

I have set the charger to charge to 1400 battery Capacity. It reaches 1400 before the timer runs out which is set for 200 minutes. Should i adjust any settings here . I presume that when it asks to set battery capacity it means 1400 ie 1400MAH 9.6V battery.

I typically try not to second guess a charger with automatic/intelligent features.. which is to say I usually give it the benefit of the doubt. Suffice it to say that when you dial in 1=1 charge rate, it will probably cut off earlier than computed or projected time (delta peak or temperature peak comes earlier) than if you dial in lower charge rate. If, however, the difference is dramatically large.. I begin to suspect the battery condition.

 

Last night I seen the word DRY displayed when discharging the battery. Should I stop discharging or let the charger do what it has to do

You may go either way...

[KALASH69]

Alright, I have a small issue. Today, before going to test out my Masada, I got my Smart Charger (The blue one from "China") and plugged in my Intellect Ni-MH 1.2v 1200 mah battery and put it on the "0.9A" setting and left it to charge for a bit, it seemed to charge up quickly (as it probably already had some juice in it), so I took it off, loaded it up, and shot a few rounds.

 

This is when the battery died, and my gun stopped firing. So I took it out, put it back on the charger, and left it. As you know, this charger is suppose to automatically shut off when the battery has reached it's peak charge. Well, I checked and checked and the light was finally green (approx. 1 1/2 later). When I picked up the battery, one of the cells had burst. Needless to say I tossed it.

 

Now, all the stuff that I thought I knew about batteries and charging I've completely forgotten due to this incident. So as of now, Im in need of a new charger that has the automatic shut off feature, and can charge my Ni-MH 1200 mah batteries as I use them in all of my guns.

 

Ive read about how that particular charger likes to reverse the polarity of the battaries and such, could this be what happened?

 

Also, last time I charged this particular battery, it worked fine and did just what it should, as did the charger.

 

If someone could reccomend me a new charger, and point out what I did wrong I would be greatful. Now, this has never happened to me before, and I've been playing airsoft for about 5 or 6 years now. Am I just loosing it or was the charger at fault?

 

Thanks!

 

-Kalash

[.:ExtraMedium:.]

Well I finally decided to take care of my batteries and after reading most of the thread (well actually just the first 5 pages) I found lots of conflicting information.

Firstly: as I understand it mA is the speed at which you charge the battery and mAh is the capacity which you charge it to.

Is this true?

 

I ask as I have a Winstar NC-789A charger. It seems to be smart as you dial in the voltage (7.2, 8.4 or 9.6) and mAh 1300-3000 and leave it for a while and eventually the little green LED stops and your battery is done.

 

My question is: seeing as I have no control over the mA how do I charge batteries for the first time?

For example if I had an Intellect 9.6V 1400 mAh then would I simply set it to 9.6V and 1400 mAh and let it charge, basically does it automatically do a first-time charge?

[Apex]

Well I finally decided to take care of my batteries and after reading most of the thread (well actually just the first 5 pages) I found lots of conflicting information.

Firstly: as I understand it mA is the speed at which you charge the battery and mAh is the capacity which you charge it to.

Is this true?

 

This is correct to a degree, mA describes the charge rate ie 1000mA (1amp in other words) and mAh describes the capacity ie 1000mAh means that if you applied a 500mAh drain then the battery would last 2 hrs, mAh standing for milliamp hours.

 

[Apex]

My question is: seeing as I have no control over the mA how do I charge batteries for the first time?

For example if I had an Intellect 9.6V 1400 mAh then would I simply set it to 9.6V and 1400 mAh and let it charge, basically does it automatically do a first-time charge?

 

I have no expericance of the charger you have.

 

But the general rule of thumb is that if you slow charge a battery then as per the first page

 

http://www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/forums/inde...post&p=7668

 

Total Battery Capacity (mAh) divided by Charge Rate (mA) multiplied by 1.4

 

For example, if you have a 3,000mAh battery, and a 300mA charger, it would look something like this...

 

> (3000 / 300) * 1.4

= 10 * 1.4

= 14 hours

 

(as mentioned earlier - a battery's first charge should be longer)

 

My current charger is a RipMax VP that has a trickle charge of 130mA and when running on mains 230v can fast charge with DELTA PEAK from 500ma all the way to 3000mA ( when running on a 12v power source it will allow me to charge at. 5000mA)

 

What this means is that I can just set the dial to say 1000mA, plug say my 2000mA battery in and press go and almost two hours later the charger beeps and i can then set it to trickle charge if needs be, this is good enough imho for most people.

 

If your charger has the DELTA PEAK Function then you will be ok, if it's just a simple dumb charger you will have to time it but from you description it sounds like it might have a inbuilt timer

[R85]

Rocking advice thanks alot helped me in knowing about battery storage and how to charge properly cheers