jond36 Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 A TM knockoff for half the price. Is this news? http://airsoftglobal.com/product_info.php?...roducts_id=9818 Only $35.00 USD Link to post Share on other sites
Burke Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 + high shipping...... Link to post Share on other sites
yee245 Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 + high shipping...... It won't be any higher than the TM version from there based on weight. It's just that the base cost for it is a bit lower. Link to post Share on other sites
sturgis Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 Nice! was looking at these the other night for a few games this summer... but both TM and SRC(?) ones are like 80-75$ and put me off abit... Link to post Share on other sites
galactica Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 seems to be cloned off the new TM one, which I have and is great. I hope they've sorted the usual chinese problems with power consumption, 'cos the TM is pretty thirsty by itself. Link to post Share on other sites
masakarijoe Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 so how do these work? is there a flash when you fire? can you really see the bbs? lastly, what type of bbs do you need to use? im considering this -Joe Link to post Share on other sites
yee245 Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 so how do these work? is there a flash when you fire? can you really see the bbs? lastly, what type of bbs do you need to use? im considering this -Joe They generally work off the principle of using a photogate to detect when a BB is passing through it, at which point some sort of light source flashes and lights up a glow in the dark BB, making it glow. If you look up "marui tracer unit" or something of that sort, on YouTube, you'll find plenty of videos. You need to get tracer BB's for it to work. It is definitely a cool effect, but as people will tell you, tracers work both ways. Link to post Share on other sites
masakarijoe Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 yes, ive seen them, and thats what i want... being that in real life thats how they work too, i think it would add a great effect to night games. i do infact want something that emits a flash. thanks for the info man -Joe Link to post Share on other sites
AirsoftHawaii90 Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 I dont understand why company's arnt useing Lipo packs to power these things.. AAA batterys are just bulky and arnt even made to produce a high amp rate.. I would love to see someone mod one of these, to take Helicopter style Lipo packs and make them really shine.. Although I dont know if the lights on the inside could handle a small lipo, but 7.4V isnt enough, and it all fails add more of the lights. Link to post Share on other sites
yee245 Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 I think part of the problem with lipo packs is the size of the batteries. There are some that are small and might be able to fit, but if you consider that most lipos are rectangular, you can't block the center of the tube due to the "reflective" tube the BB is passing through, and you need to have a somewhat durable outer tube, you're limiting yourself to certain sizes of battery. So, if you want to keep the silencer shape and if you want to keep the diameter relatively narrow so you don't have an overly wide tube, you need something somewhat small. When you take the lipo cells and try to put them in, I would imagine some won't fit well, and ideally, you'd need a rounded one in the shape of a C. While there are some lipo cells I've seen that could fit in a relatively narrow tube, and the capacity would be enough probably for a whole night of use, it is just more convenient to use AAA's. Also, with lipo's you need a more specific set up for recharging the batteries, and while that is probably relatively cheap to add, it just doesn't necessarily seem like the best option. AAA's do the job fine and are easy to replace when they run out of juice. I personally would prefer a removable battery power source in a tracer unit than a "permanent" one, since you can easily swap it out whenever you need to. As for the high discharge rate, it seems that AAA's, or any alkaline battery, does fine with making a flash bulb go off. And, the TM version seems to do its job perfectly fine with AAA's. Link to post Share on other sites
thenenea Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 LiPo packs are made of individual cells that are roughly the size of AA ones. There are also low capacity LiPo cells that are the size of AAA batteries (these are used generally in micro models like RC helicopters that fit your palm). The problem with LiPos is that each individual cell must have individual wireing for cell measurement and load balancing. So it's not unduable to build a small "saddle" type LiPo pack that would fit a silencer (there is one custom built at redwolf that powers an mp5k for example) but it requires of lot of work and very good soldering skills. In theory you could use a 7.4v 500 mAh pack as a starting point. Link to post Share on other sites
Weirdguy Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 So far all clones have been rubbish, maybe JG has got it right? Link to post Share on other sites
Captainkickass Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 Not sure, waiting to see these before i buy it. Or i might just wait for the madbull tracer. Link to post Share on other sites
yee245 Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 I was unaware of the 10440 size Li-ion batteries until looking them up just now. While, yes, you could use a lithium based power source, why make things more difficult than they need to be? AAA alkaline batteries are available basically anywhere, and having a common removable power source I think is a much better solution than a custom battery pack, whether it is removable or not. I really don't see too much of a benefit from using a lithium battery power source. An internal pack is just going to add to the cost, and removable ones are just going to be more expensive and also of limited use. The capacity is probably going to be about the same given limited space and packaging. Weight is really not an issue here, at least not in my mind. If you put one AAA battery in a TM tracer unit as opposed to all four, then thread it onto your gun, will you notice a difference? The only difference I see is voltage, and as far as I can tell, the 6V supplied by AAA's works fine. Not everything needs to be powered by lithium batteries. Anyway, it will be interesting to see how the JG version compares to the TM. Cloning mechanical systems is different from cloning electrical systems, which is presumably what they are doing. Making the housing should be fairly simple, and copying the electronics shouldn't be that hard for them either. And, as long as they are using the same or similar components, I don't see why it wouldn't function about the same. Link to post Share on other sites
Fighting Maus Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 Regarding the subject of battery consumption, when I use my TM version tracer unit, I generally run it with regargable batteries. That way Im not burning though pack after pack of regular alkeline batteries. If fully charged, one set will last for a 6 hour night op, which I feel is plenty of time. I beleive the TM and the SRC (I have both) units are illuminated with LEDs. I dont see why they wouldnt be able to survive being powered by a lipo. Once they make them that small. Link to post Share on other sites
uscmCorps Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 I would LOVE a tracer unit that had a NVG mode such that, when set to that mode it would only activate the BBs to be bright enough to see through NVGs. Tracers are fun right up until you realize your this epic BB magnet because everyone knows where you are. Link to post Share on other sites
bart_dude Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 from what i know about lipo's the great thing about them is that they hold a lot of juice in a small package because they dont use the traditional cells, meaning they can be lighter, this also means that they can be made to fit into ANY shape (please correct me if im wrong) so...im guessing most lipo makers produce a lot of rectangular shaped batteries because ... i dont know but i guess we're all under the impression they come in certain sizes again i've only been reading about lipo's, so i could be wrong, and yes, i forgot where i read them, probaly wikipedia Link to post Share on other sites
L4byr1nth Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 Like IR tracers? That would be awesome. Ben. Link to post Share on other sites
thenenea Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 The only difference I see is voltage, and as far as I can tell, the 6V supplied by AAA's works fine. Not everything needs to be powered by lithium batteries. The fact that you can have a reusable battery pack that can hold up to three times as much charge a single use one an can be recharged in 10 minutes from a car cigarette lighter makes little difference ? Not to mention that a 1200 mAh LiPo costs about 10$ and can be recharged in the area of 10,000 cycles which makes them a little greener? Link to post Share on other sites
thenenea Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 so...im guessing most lipo makers produce a lot of rectangular shaped batteries because ... i dont know but i guess we're all under the impression they come in certain sizes Most LiPo packs are in rectangular shape to fit the body of RC aircraft and helicopters which are the biggest users. That is also why most LiPo packs have their precise dimensions listed (you have to fit them in tight spaces in a RC model). Airsoft goods producers unfortunately has been complacent in using Nichel basesd batteries for comodity sake and also because they have a shorter life span. Not to mention they they can produce them cheaper and reap bigger profits from it. Look at the prices of a decent PRC made LiPo from a RC hobby site and compare it to the price of a NiMh of same capacity from an airsoft site and you'll see what I mean. Link to post Share on other sites
pjones Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 I wonder why they don't use CR123's (Surefire batteries) for power. Cheaper than Lipo but with greater output than AAA's. Link to post Share on other sites
galactica Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 because they're too bulky. To get a load of batteries around a BB barrel they have to be slim, or you have a really fat unit AAAs make perfect sense. You can buy packs of 40 of them in Costco for hardly anything, and this works great. If you're out on a night op and your tracer dies, you do not want to be charging up LiPos - 4 x AAAs in a pouch is ideal. Link to post Share on other sites
sturgis Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 It is definitely a cool effect, but as people will tell you, tracers work both ways. you know, that argument gets soooo on my tits it's unbelievable.... Now mind, i've only used the 1st style tracer unit, years and years back, back when the amount of airsofters in my country could have been counted with a 2 digit number... My mate had one of these but the damn thing wouldn't fit his famas or something so i got to chuck it on my M4 for nightgames... and the same the argument was made several times.... Well guess what...the same applies for real tracerrounds...and they still get used... Now yes, if you the triggerhappy chap to wich a burst = dumping half a magazine downrange, and sitting around till you get a chance to empty the rest of your magazine..... yes, chances are you are gonna get lit up... Now however, if you use these properly, i.e. fire at a target so your team mates can direct their fire onto that, then reposition yourself, rinse and repeat... chances of that happening go down significantly... Also, because i liked the std mags better then hicaps, i usually only loaded up 1 tracerround every 5 other rounds, great stuff Actually i liked the "muzzleflash" the old tracer units produced! Sitting in the pitchdark bushes, seeing the direct area in front of you light up everytime you shot the gun was just an awesome experience and really imersed yourself in the game! Course, due to all "oh the noes!! But they can see where you are!!" i remained the only one running around with one... and since our sites were usually a poststamp sized patch of woodland, them nightgames became dull very quikly... Maskarijoe, i say get one mate, ignore all the nay sayers and have a blast with it Edit: Back then, the last 24hour game i helped organising, i had invited one of the TAG guys from the US who had just moved to Belgium for work, and he brought his projector and a big screen, with footage of a big US game (Savage garden 3 or something?) in Arizona, so we could organise a little screening during a break in play in the evening. Lot's a nightgame footage with the majority of them using tracers... Oh and ahs everywhere offcourse with many going, we need to get some of those! Ironicly that was the last 24 hours that was run... well that i'm aware off anyways, since it's been over 4 years since i've played here Link to post Share on other sites
kken Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 that would be op: savage garden 3 in nevada in 2001. definitely cool night game, tracer rounds all around. we regularly have many tracer magazines/units for our night missions for our historical events, they definitely add to the atmosphere and gameplay. with a $35 unit, we're hoping EVERY attendees can now sport a tracer unit with tracer rounds mixed in with regular rounds. Link to post Share on other sites
sturgis Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 that would be op: savage garden 3 in nevada in 2001. definitely cool night game, tracer rounds all around Cool! you were at that game? I remember the footage till this day, looked absolutely wicked! yes, indeed, hopefully this affordable unit will bring lots more of them into the field! a year or 2 back i got some of the tracermags for a 24h fibua game in the UK, but they just weren't the same i felt... the flash those old units produced in a woodland eviroment added so much more to the whole experience from a shooting perspective. Link to post Share on other sites
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