Corner Engage Device - blindfiring?

[GuzziHero]

Ok, moral crossroads here.

 

Several airsoft companies sell the Proud Corner Engage which looks like this:

 

http://www.cobraairsoft.com/popup_image.php?pID=2774

 

Now Im thinking of buying one for use in a CQB environment.

 

Technically, itd be of limited use in a real scenario. Spotting, yes and maybe itd be accurate for 1 shot. After that, recoil would, I think, make it pointless as the weapon isnt shouldered properly. But this isnt real life. And is it any worse than hiding behind almost impenetrable cover and sniping, or behind a clear shield and shooting around it while aiming through the shield?

 

Then theres the moral question. This is a game. Really, we should be in a position where we can be hit as well as hitting others. Is it unfair to be able to attack from an unassailable position such as round a corner? And is it unfair enough to be called cheating?

 

Im not sure what others would think of me if I used one. So thats the question. Would you be angry/offended if someone turned up with one of these to a game and shot you while using it?

[Kush88]

Shootin around corners sounds pretty awesome...but then again if someone else could do it and I couldn't that would suck. I don't really know where I stand. It's all a matter of how they would use it I guess.

[sectionfive]

technically , i'd say that it's not blindfiring. but it's just not cricket is it , so in that respect i'd say that , imo, it would fall into the category of blind firing .. or is it just another example of things never quite being black and white. personally i think carrying a shield is pretty much the same as blind firing anyway , be prepared to take the hits or dont play the game .

[Stealthbomber]

If you play serious CQB scenarios and, for some reason either aren't allowed to use pyro's or the location means they're not effective then I say go for it.

 

It's no more an advantage than having a player with an exceptionally accurate rifle in a woodland game.

 

In fact, I'm tempted to get one meself.

[mr7q]

To be honest, I'm guessing you're going to have more people at your site getting uppity accusing you of blind firing than actual hits you get on people with the thing.

[GuzziHero]

Mm...Ive ordered one. For £30, its worth buying even if I can just use it to shoot my mate Kezz (Unreal Airsoft owner/marshal) up the *albartroth* now and again.

[ECRRRainman]

Im going to have to say No. It is not necessarily blindfiring but it barely reduces the dangers involved with blindfiring. Instead of seeing nothing you see through roughly a 1 inch hole. I would not feel comfortable using one or others near me using one

[Catman]

This sort of thing has come up several times before:

http://www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/forums/inde...topic=73124&hl=

 

Shooting around corners through an extremely limited field of view is almost on par with blind firing.

 

Airsoft is a game and exposing yourself from round a corner is not the life threating risk it is in real life. But "blindfiring" around a corner and you could be risking someone's eyesight.

[Rogue845]

There is also the fact the person getting shot by this device will only see a gun coming rpound the corner, and accusations of blind firing will fly thick and fast, and so the aggro potential is quite high.

[Samm]

I remember Hissing Sid once saying that gameplay isn't really fair unless you're exposed when you're firing, much like hiding sensors in laser tag.

 

Hmm.

 

I guess it's just up to marshalls/site owners to decide really.

[Melonfish]

i'm going to say yes for this because there will be times that people will just wazz there gun round a corner and let rip under the premiss that they can see because of the CED. too much like a grey area in the sport to be fair.

great for the real steel bad for airsoft.

pete

[Gliderrider]

technically , i'd say that it's not blindfiring. but  it's just not cricket is it , so in that respect i'd say that , imo, it would fall into the category of blind firing .. or is it just another example of things never quite being black and white. personally i think carrying a shield is pretty much the same as blind firing anyway , be prepared to take the hits or dont play the game .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

At most urban sites I'v playd they stipulate that you must see the target you a shooting at, It isnt blind firing if you have got a bead on the person. I was going to make one when they first came out about 3 years ago, but decided against it on cost grounds, thats my only problem, if you get a direct hit on either of the cameras, you will be crying all the way home.

[GuzziHero]

Hmm...if its going to cause tension in my games, Ill probably use it just for spotting, not firing. Thanks for the input so far!

[TheKurodaVagrant]

I guess if someone uses the CED on their rifle, then could weapon hits be enacted in the game to restore balance?

 

That, or get your team sniper and have him shoot the firer's hand. Personally, I don't have much of an issue with the use of this for observation purposes and occasional sneaky shots, but basing one's entire gameplay on it is over the top.

[GuzziHero]

Ohh, its only of real limit usage. And yes, thats a damn good idea...weapon hits count if you use it could be a good rule. In that case, Id switch to backup anyway, because I personally count weapon hits.

 

At our site as Ive said elsewhere, we tend to have people behind transparent shields and sticking their gun round to fire. This could be the perfect anti to that

 

As for the vision ability...Im not sure how much it would restrict over using the scope normally. Ill report back when I get it.

 

I think itll be limited usage anyway...as trying to aim while holding a gun at arms length at 90degrees to the body is going to be...interesting to say the least! I think its going to be like getting with with a confusion grenade in World War Zero

[Catman]

At most urban sites I'v playd they stipulate that you must see the target you a shooting at, It isnt blind firing if you have got a bead on the person.[...]

No, you must be able to see the person clearly - the idea being that you can see if they have their eye protection on properly before you fire and it's not some newbie going "oh noes me glasses am all fogged up like, lolz, I'll just take 'em off while standing completely exposed like a complete numpty" <--- hey I seen it done

[PariahWolf]

To be perfectly honest it doesn't sit well with me.

 

Stinks of cheating. Being able to shoot someone who can't shoot back flys in the face of sportsmanship if I'm being honest.

[Malakith]

In my view its a rather underhand tactic that would generally result in a grenade being placed as close as possible to the person in question, if their not going to make themselves visible then they can put up with the consequences of being deaf for the walk back to the safe zone.

 

But really I guess it depends on your site, if its of such design you have no way to get an angle, nor flank the person in question then id be inclined to say it shouldnt really be used. If however it was the kind of site that was CQB but open (eg a village) then flanking / shooting from the side is an effective counter and I personally would have no trouble letting them use it.

[GuzziHero]

Ohh the site i play at is easy to be outflanked with!

 

Ill probably stick to spotting with it then

 

Okay, next Q:

Is it any better/worse than using shields? Because unless you get a grenade right by them, they are impenetrable cover...

[otherrandomhero]

I strapped some sights to the side of my gun so use with a vert. grip, I can shoot around corners with only front fingers and, to an extent, by back ones exposed. This is legal and exposes no more than this device, so this should be legal too.

[evansy]

To be honnest I wouldnt want to play against someone with one. While technically it itsnt blind firing its not in the spirit of the game either. Not to mention the "monkey see, monkey do" aproach noobs take to the game, all it'll take is for one of them to see someone poking a gun around a corner and firing off a few shots with one of those ontop of their gun for the noobs to think its ok to stick guns around corners and open up.

Even just having one for spotting will add to a hell of a lot of blind fire calling as if someone gets shot and the only gun they can see is one being held at arms lenght round a corner you just know there going to go mouthing off at who evers holding the gun, you'd be better off with a little mechanics inspection mirror.

As for sheilds someone had one at SYA/LFU last week and I didnt see a problem with it when it was put to the vote if he could use it or not but when he started playing he was shooting AEG's thru holes in walls then covering them with the shield when people shot at him while just looking thru the sheild. Again its just not in the spirit of the game. IMO if someones using a shield as a bullet proof one then it should only have a small window in it and they should be limited to pistols only as real ones are about 15kg and you wouldnt be carrying one in one had and firing a rifle with the other

[Victory]

Granted, it could be considered cheating...but it's not like they can't buy one as well.

 

 

-Vic

[Smithy1988]

Ok, in my limited experience, i think the only major place this would benefit is down a corridor or something along those lines. Sticking your gun around a blind corner pretty much flags to any observing enemy where you are. And anyone worth their salt would properly have to mind to take cover and wait for you to walk in thinking the room to be clear, or clear out and try and flank you while you were worrying about trying to look around corners (that or throw a grenade at your feet). Unless these have a really good field of view i can't see they are going to help much. Except for maybe an early warning system. And that is just airsoft.

 

I'm civi and have very little field training (except that of Cadets etc.) but if you stick your gun around the corner of a wall or door for prolonged periods of time (e.g. while you look through a scope to see who might be in a room), you're properly going to have serious problem in the way of your hands getting blown to hell. And seeing as the military tend to clear rooms with grenades, i personally can't see this device being used much if at all.

 

So IMO these devices are fair, if your willing to show people that you yourself are sitting around the corner so be it.

 

Smithy

[GuzziHero]

Ooh...close poll

 

Very good points by everyone.

 

Like you say, Smithy, any hope of surprise you would get would disappear...you cant instinctively engage quickly with this device. I can see it being a very occasional scout aid, thats about it

[GuzziHero]

Okay. Got it today.

 

I can tell ya, dont be afraid or worried if someone turns up with a CED. This thing really is useful for spotting only. Anyone trying to use this for firing will *not* hit <bleep>! They will disadvantage themselves.

 

It has a very small viewing window and narrow field of vision, and everything looks some what more distant, with the overall effect that aiming is almost impossible. Allied to the fact that trying to quickly focus on or follow a target being almost impossible (to raise the red dot, you have to lift your left arm, to pan right you have to extend your left arm...a description cannot give enough emphasis on how hard this is to do!), this thing is not a shooting aid.

 

What it IS useful for is spotting round corners to give a general idea of where the enemy is without exposing yourself too much.