BB comparison

[yee245]

If I recall from when I was looking at precision scales, they can be rather expensive, to the point where it's probably not worth getting it, since wind in any shot will probably have more of an effect than the minor difference in weight between the BBs. I went cheap and got a digital scale from DX that seems to work well enough for its price. It has a resolution of 0.001g, and probably +/- 0.002g accuracy or something. You'll probably be spending like $400-1000 for a better quality scale that might give you better accuracy, and then somewhere in the thousands if you want something in the tenths (or smaller) of a milligram. Beyond that, I think it's overkill. For under $25, I can't complain with mine.

 

Here are a few videos that I made awhile back with some of my BB weighing. Two of the videos are testing how consistent the measurements were on the same object, and the other was the difference in weight consistency between some Inertia .20s and KSC .25s.

[Trasher]

For measuring BBs you can get a perfectly suitable 0,001 precision (jewelry) scale for les than 50 USD...

Micrometers also come really cheap.

[racegeek]

have you done any grouping tests of sorted bbs to just random bbs in the bag? big enough difference to bother

[Kunlun]

For those who can only use biodegradeable bb's: which is your favo brand and weigth?

 

I've been using 0.28 and 0.30 Green Devil, 0.30 Bioval and now I'm considering buying the 0.40 Bioval just for testing purposes. I'm shooting with a 480 fps (with 0.20) VSR.

[Trasher]

The Bioval .40 has a lot of air bubbles, more than the Madbull or Devil .40.

 

I've heard good things about G&G .28 bio, but I never tested it myself (I've bag sitting on the shelf).

 

 

Bioval .40 on the left:

 

[Kunlun]

Thanks for that picture Trasher! Madbull 0.40's aren't BIO-bb's right?

 

 

Guess I'll stick to .30 Green Devil's

[Trasher]

have you done any grouping tests of sorted bbs to just random bbs in the bag? big enough difference to bother

 

Some batches of the rebranded heavy BBs (like the green .36 or the tan .40) are pretty low quality. Sorting the visibly deformed, pitted, orange-skinned, etc BBs helps a lot. I know guys here who throw out at least 30-50% percent.

 

By micrometering you can filter out the wildly undersized/oversized ones which will also get you more consistent weight. I don't use precision scale for everyday filtering, just to check a new brand or batch.

 

One thing you cannot check (without cutting) is air bubbles. Unfortunately, I think this factor is more important than smoothness, weight or size consistency.

 

Is the difference big enough to bother?

It depends on the BB and time/effort you invest in sniping.

 

Nothing is more annoying than a wild flyer instead of a sure kill, after stalking a single group or target for 2-3 hours.

[racegeek]

of all the madbull rebranded .36 .40 and .43 green tan black ones, which brands do people find to have the best quality? who is the original manufacturer

[sirrith]

Anyone tried the Marui .28g sniper bbs?

[yee245]

So, stay tuned.

Anyone still actually staying tuned?

 

I'm sure anyone who has done massive amounts of BB measuring can tell you that sometimes, you can lose motivation to keep measuring and measuring and measuring. It also takes a little longer to measure with a micrometer compared to calipers, as well as inputting the data. With calipers, you can measure and write down pretty much just the hundredths place, and then type effectively 100 numbers into notepad, then just use the "replace text" thing to fill in all the rest of the information. With a micrometer, you can do a similar thing, except that you have to type in 100 2-digit numbers (because BBs are not precise enough that they stay accurate at the micrometer level), which while it adds minimal extra time, it still adds up.

 

Anyway, after a 5 month delay, I had the urge to finish up this data set. I just have 4 more types to measure (and then 14 including those to input into the spreadsheet). That will bring the total to 36 types of BBs in this comparison. And, even with the bunches I have, I know of at least another 20 types Id want to add to this comparison, and then maybe another dozen others for reference. Some of those would include BB *bramston pickle*'s whole lineup, Goldenball .28/.30/.32/.36/.40, various TM ones including the "new" .28s, a couple other G&G weights, some SRC types, various Madbull weights, the "standard" Airsoft Elite weights since I am out of them and couldn't add them to this set, and then maybe some other common types as well (TSD, ICS, Echo 1, etc).

 

Also, I realize a lot of these BBs are primarily available in the US, and some are actually discontinued, but it might help identify some types to possibly avoid due to tolerances. I'm looking at making an order at some point in the near future (though hopefully nowhere near as long as that 5 month wait for this data) to pick up some other "common" types that would be more accessible to other regions like TM or Madbull both to add as as extra data as well as having extra reference points for comparison.

 

Anyway, as a teaser, here's a list of the BBs that will be coming up within the next few days...

Airsoft Elite .28g

Airsoft Outlet NW .43g

BB King .25g, 28g, .32g, .32g

Bioshot .25g, .28g, .30g

Bioval .23g, .27g, .30g, .30g, .40g

Excel .20g, .25g

G&G .28g

Goldenball .20g, .30g

Javelin .28g, .36g

KSC .25g, .30g

Madbull .43g

Maruzen .29g

Matrix .20g, .23g, .25g, .28g, .30g, .40g

P Force .30g

PHX .28g

Vanaras .25g, .36g

WE .40g

 

You might notice some of them are listed twice, and that's because there are two types, generally one white and one black. Of the data I've input, there have definitely been some surprises, at least to me. While I haven't input the numbers for the SGMs yet, I have a feeling the overall standard deviation will be relatively high, but the roundness consistency is going to be right around the top. I'll have to see once the numbers are in the spreadsheet so I can manipulate them. This time, though, I'm not going to take any outliers out of the data like I think I did with the last set. That took way too long, and that was half as many BBs.

 

Also, part of the reason for it taking so long, other than there being a lot of types of BBs, is that I'm taking one measurement on each of 100 BBs, then taking 5 measurements on each of 25 more BBs. That second set of values, I'm not completely sure how I'm going to analyze yet, but it does give a sort of sense of how consistently round the BBs are, and I'll have to see how different "tests" on them give a sort of roundness "rating." I may just run a standard deviation on the difference between the minimum and maximum values on each BB and see what kind of numbers that gives me.

 

Okay, that's enough of a break... back to measuring... (I never realized how many emoticons there were to choose from)

[l96ninja]

Does anyone have a recommendation for good .36's? I only know of MadBull and Javelin, which I've been told are basically the same thing, terrible.

[santos_mw]

The Bioval .40 has a lot of air bubbles, more than the Madbull or Devil .40.

 

I've heard good things about G&G .28 bio, but I never tested it myself (I've bag sitting on the shelf).

 

 

Bioval .40 on the left:

 

 

 

i did the same with the madbull 0.36 not knowing you came to the same idea, here is the pic for the madbull 0.36

 

so the first one had bubbles all over the place, the second one amazingly had no bubbles in it, and the third one had just one right in the middle.

 

here are some precision extreme 0.3 for comparrison... (the macro was a little bit off)

 

 

since most of the bbs with same weight come in same colours i always thought they are all rebrands... all 0.36 bb-s are green , 0.40 tan and 0.43 black (guarder, madbull, blaster devil etc)

[The Bushman]

since most of the bbs with same weight come in same colours i always thought they are all rebrands... all 0.36 bb-s are green , 0.40 tan and 0.43 black (guarder, madbull, blaster devil etc)

 

I presumed that they were all buying from the same factory, as they hit the shelves around the same time and in the same colours. I think that different batches could have different tolerences/amounts of bubbles.

 

I have used MADBULL, BLASTER and GUARDER.

 

Despite being far less perfect than SGM 0.29g, I found that their superiority over the old DIGICON was apparrant. The extra weight helps keep the pellet's groups tighter at long ranges, compared to SGM. Espescially in winds, or breezes, that are present 99% of the time when I shoot. Indeed, it is very rare that it is dead calm, there are always wind currents through certain openings in woodland.

 

I used the GUARDER 0.36g and found, they actually gave me consistant hits, around 80 yards. The main problem was seeing where they were going. Currently the tan coloured, BLASTER 0.40g are what I am using, with high powered setups. My team mate tested my rifle and got 50% hit rate on an A1 target at 93 yards (confirmed with Bushnell laser ranger) 3 out of 6 shots (the first shot was a hit)! he used the bipod and aimed the number of mils away that I advised via radio from the target (using my range card).

 

[link]http://www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=87259&view=findpost&p=2410615[/link]

 

I have found some horrific misformed pellets in both Madbull and Blaster 0.40g, but due to hand loading all my pellets, they are never loaded.

 

OK, it could be better, but I am easily pleased to be able to consider taking shots at such ranges. The pellets are really falling at those distances and very hard to spot, where they are landing (espescially as I shoot that rifle on 3 magnification). You need to practice and use a laser ranger and scope with mils down to the very bottom of the picture.

 

Good Hunting

[yee245]

I figure I might as well just post my 6-month-old data, since it hasn't really changed in that time. The data in Table 1 are from single measurements on each of 100 BBs, and the data from Table 2 are from 5 measurements on each of 25 BBs.

 

Table 1: Basic Size Consistency

Sorted by standard deviation, but also contains the average diameters, minimum diameter measured, maximum diameter measured, and total deviation.

 

Table 2: Roundness Consistency

I don't really know any metric for presenting roundness of a sphere (where eccentricity would be a measure of a circles "roundness"), but the best I can do is the standard deviation of the total deviation found each BB (the difference between the minimum and maximum values, as determined by taking 5 measurements on each BB).

 

One thing you might notice is the position of the SGMs on the overall standard deviation list. They had some interesting numbers that I looked a lot into, and the best I could come up with is that there are almost 2 "sizes" that I found in any given box. I did the "analysis" awhile ago, so I forget what exactly it was, but it was something like this: about 60 of the BBs had diameters from 5.968-5.977, and about 40 of them made a small normal-like distribution centered around 5.955mm. Or, another possible way to look at it was overlapping bell curves, where the bigger one was very tightly centered around 5.972mm (45 of the 100 were within 5.969mm to 5.976mm, and 11 of those were 5.972mm), and the other was a smaller and wider one centered around 5.952mm. You'll see they are very consistently round, though. The maximum deviation on a single one was 0.012mm, but there was only one. The next highest had 0.009mm, again only one of those, and the next was 0.008mm, and yet again, only one. If those were removed, the roundness standard deviation would nearly cut in half. Interestingly enough, the same happens with Matrix .25s if you remove the 3 highest as well, except they would actually surpass the SGMs, though nothing near as much happens for the G&G .28s. I may need to look into it further and maybe take one box of SGMs (since I have 5, I think), measure the BBs and sort them into the "small" and "large" ones, then measure them separately and see what kind of numbers I get. That would be interesting. And, if anyone's going to be using SGMs primarily in a highly tuned weapon taking relatively few shots, it would seem reasonable for anyone to be selective with their ammo anyway, right?

 

I have another 15-20 more types types of BBs that I have around waiting to be measured, so eventually those will get posted up as well. At some point, I'll probably get some weight consistency data for all of them as well. Also, I realize that a lot of the BBs in these charts are available primarily in the USA.

 

One last thing, but I do believe the values can change from batch to batch, but overall, they give a general sense of where they lie in the spectrum of BB sizing and consistency. I have measured the old Goldenball .20g tracers many times, since I was a little surprised about how consistently round they were. If I recall, they got similar results each time, with two different measuring devices (digital calipers with a 0.01mm resolution and digital micrometer with 0.001mm resolution). So, looking through some old spreadsheets, I have their standard deviations at 0.00366, 0.00520, 0.00436, 0.00395, and 0.00226 using the calipers and 0.00345 and 0.00305 using the micrometer.

 

Anyway, take whatever conclusions you want from this.

[The Bushman]

Anyway, take whatever conclusions you want from this.

 

Thanks for your time and effort. I like to read factual posts.

 

Shame, as you say they are primarily from the US market. However, I suggest the 0.40g I have, will be similar to those on your chart.

 

Despite the SGM being so good, I still favour the tan 0.40g. I have a box and a half of SGM in my ammo tin, that have been untouched for over a year. I recall another 6mmHUNTER using them on a target day, with an identical upgraded tanaka m40a1, to mine. At the 76m target the 0.40g in my rifle proved far superior in the wind. I don't really see that as being the shooter... much more the hardware/setup. We can all shoot well.

 

In my game; you only get 22 shots in a high power bolt action for the full event. Therefore you must really have faith in your pellet choice. I guess I would only consider the 0.29g again in my laylaxed VSR (it gives less hop on the 0.40g and is only 483fps)..... or if it is forcast to be really really calm conditions, I would maybe consider SGM with the tanaka m40a1. In environments where thick forest limits shots to 50 yards or less, the SGM is probably the better choice too.

 

If you have unlimited shots, you could try to have diffo mags with 0.29g and 0.40g and just turn the hop up/down a pre set amount for diffo situations/ranges/conditions.

 

The less precise 0.40g is simply more practical, in my experience/setups. You do get fliers, but as a whole, they do better than any other lighter pellets I have tried, out to the longer ranges. I think they give better percentages of hits and also better chance of a first shot, long range hit (as they are more resistant to wind and deviate less).

 

My laylaxed VSR can do around 40% hits at 100 yard (sometimes better), with 0.40g BLASTER... at only 483fps (F1 chrono'ed with 0.20g). No chance of that with 0.29g with SGM, in my experience.

 

Good Hunting

[teflon don]

does anyone know where i can buy some bioval 0.27g i used to buy them at begadishop.com but they are out of stock now

is there anyother european based company that sels them

[tmks88]

some years ago someone tried to make different ammo for airsoft sniper rifles

instead of BBs they used silindrical pieces with half-sphere head

anyone remember it? id like to get more information about it

there was some problems with them, but I dont remember why they didnt work as good as BBs

[The Bushman]

They were for highly limited edition rifles (about 100 made). I think they were m40 replicas. Basicly, due to that ammunition not being round, it could not use the principle of hop up (back spin) and instead tried to spin more like a conventional bullet. Basicly that means it may be more accurate, but shorter flat range. Owners reported being able to lob shots onto targets 100m away.

 

I can't recall the name of this esoteric piece of Airsoft history. However, the ammunition is obviously very rare/limited and therefore not too good for skirmishing purposes. I guess I would try to shoot paper targets against huge cloth backdrops; to try and re use ammo.

 

Good Hunting

 

 

[tmks88]

thanks!

but do you know how did they made the projectile spin diagonally

probably didnt use rifled barrel for plastic ammo?

[yee245]

If I'm not mistaken, The Bushman is thinking of the Asahi blade bullet, but there was another group on a (now-defunct) Turkish airsoft forum that was working on a pellet shaped projectile that was roughly cylindrical body that was ribbed and had a rounded front. I last saw it about a year ago, but it is gone now. To my knowledge, it never made it past the prototype stage before being scrapped, and looking at one of my posts on another forum to refresh my memory, if I recall, the design was only based around one person's (who was diagnosed with schizophrenia) knowledge of aerodynamics. One odd design "improvement" was going from a design with a .40g pellet to a .12g pellet for the prototype, but still believing that it would perform just as well. It also required a custom barrel as well.

[sniperelite7]

If I'm not mistaken, The Bushman is thinking of the Asahi blade bullet, but there was another group on a (now-defunct) Turkish airsoft forum that was working on a pellet shaped projectile that was roughly cylindrical body that was ribbed and had a rounded front. I last saw it about a year ago, but it is gone now. To my knowledge, it never made it past the prototype stage before being scrapped, and looking at one of my posts on another forum to refresh my memory, if I recall, the design was only based around one person's (who was diagnosed with schizophrenia) knowledge of aerodynamics. One odd design "improvement" was going from a design with a .40g pellet to a .12g pellet for the prototype, but still believing that it would perform just as well. It also required a custom barrel as well.

 

I was looking through the data tables you posted a page or so back and it seemed that among all the heavy bb's the matrix brand seemed to be coming out on top in terms of consistency. Would that be these bb's as I recall the matrix brand has changed over time?

 

http://www.evike.com/product_info.php?cPath=27_131&products_id=30172

 

If so would you and the other users here recommend it as a suitable heavy bb?

[The Bushman]

If it's the tan 0.40g that BLASTER and MADBULL sell, then yes. I have used both and rate them highly. I suspect they are all from the same factory, due to the colour. I have confirmed hit at a lasered 112 yards (downhill).

 

Good Hunting

[sniperelite7]

If it's the tan 0.40g that BLASTER and MADBULL sell, then yes. I have used both and rate them highly. I suspect they are all from the same factory, due to the colour. I have confirmed hit at a lasered 112 yards (downhill).

 

Good Hunting

 

Thanks! looking for a better bb than madbull(or atleast the original tan), as..they appear to have changed their formula. Don't how they are across the pond. But the last two bottles of .4g I bought. The bb's where much more orange, and I have a feeling that accuracy has suffered. For example, watching the bb's through my scope, every 3 or 4 shots and the bb's would be rocketing skyward, or diving into the dirt. Like they where too light. I've ruled out fps fluctuations..seems to indicate to me that the weight is way off.

[yee245]

As you mention, Madbull seems to have changed their supplier. The difference in the amount of hop up they are receiving could also be a result of BB size inconsistencies, and not just weight. If one BB is say 5.99mm and then the next is 5.90mm, which you can see is very feasible for a BB to have, you might get different levels of hop up if you set it it for a typical 5.95mm size. That's just a theory. Weight, based on what I've measured in the past, doesn't vary that much, though it's possible that the new Madbull ones now have significantly more air bubbles, which would likely be the biggest factor in weight variation, though it seems unlikely (to me). Consider a uniform density sphere for 6.00mm and 5.90mm, which for BB size variation is on the very wide end. If the 5.90mm BB is .40g, the 6.00mm BB will only be 5% heavier at about .42g. Now, maybe you can see the effects of severe overhop or underhop with that weight difference; I don't really know. Then, there would be the other issue of the amount of hop being applied, since the larger heavier BB would presumably pick up more hop due to its size, which should counteract some of the weight.

 

As for the Matrix BBs, different batches may have different results, and they likely don't always have the same ones at any given time. Some people say that the Matrix BBs, like the .40s, are terrible, but I haven't done any shooting testing with mine. If you look at some of the reviews of the BBs on http://www.madmercsairsoft.co.uk/ you'll see that even though some of the "identical" BBs, like Blasters and Madbulls, look the same and possibly come from the same OEM, they don't perform the same.

 

Unfortunately, I haven't made any progress on any of the other dozens of BBs I have.

[sniperelite7]

As you mention, Madbull seems to have changed their supplier. The difference in the amount of hop up they are receiving could also be a result of BB size inconsistencies, and not just weight. If one BB is say 5.99mm and then the next is 5.90mm, which you can see is very feasible for a BB to have, you might get different levels of hop up if you set it it for a typical 5.95mm size. That's just a theory. Weight, based on what I've measured in the past, doesn't vary that much, though it's possible that the new Madbull ones now have significantly more air bubbles, which would likely be the biggest factor in weight variation, though it seems unlikely (to me). Consider a uniform density sphere for 6.00mm and 5.90mm, which for BB size variation is on the very wide end. If the 5.90mm BB is .40g, the 6.00mm BB will only be 5% heavier at about .42g. Now, maybe you can see the effects of severe overhop or underhop with that weight difference; I don't really know. Then, there would be the other issue of the amount of hop being applied, since the larger heavier BB would presumably pick up more hop due to its size, which should counteract some of the weight.

 

As for the Matrix BBs, different batches may have different results, and they likely don't always have the same ones at any given time. Some people say that the Matrix BBs, like the .40s, are terrible, but I haven't done any shooting testing with mine. If you look at some of the reviews of the BBs on http://www.madmercsairsoft.co.uk/ you'll see that even though some of the "identical" BBs, like Blasters and Madbulls, look the same and possibly come from the same OEM, they don't perform the same.

 

Unfortunately, I haven't made any progress on any of the other dozens of BBs I have.

 

Thanks for your insight. I ordered some of the matrix .4s, i'll report back on how the performed.