r.ocelot Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 Here's the thing: I want my SVI to kick as hard as possible, and the FPS as high as possible. Now, I don't care about gas efficiency (as long as the gas is not wasted, but used to increase the above mentioned parameters). If I can get 15-18 shots from a full GG mag, I'll be a happy camper. Here's what I've done: 150% hammer spring with BB under the spring 6.01 inner barrel hop is disabled high flow valve removed nozzle return spring punched out that pin shaped thing in the back section of the loading nozzle (it's in the tube). tefloned everything in the loading nozzle replaced the blowback unit's o-ring with a better fitting one 150% recoil spring Anything else I can do? I want to use the gas that was meant for the other 16 rounds to increase blowback and fps... I should note that it's a SCW3 system, though it'll be using the CP/CL SCW2 hammer/sear set. Link to post Share on other sites
Five-sEvEn Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 Eww.. SCW3... I don't know anything about those... Also, isn't it agasint forum rules if your upgrades take it over 328fps? If this topic stays, then my reply will be: My SVI is the old magna system, but I think the hammer springs should be the same. Look for the largest hammer spring you can find... like some monster 600% one if you can find/make one. They don't have to particularly be for WA guns, as I'm sure another spring was compatible, I just don't remember what it was. What does removing the nozzle return spring do? sounds like it would jam your gun a lot more. But if the blowback system is different from the magna, I could be totally wrong... I still don't see any benefit from it. What pin thing are you talking about? I hope it's not your float valve, or the pin holding the float valve in... Have you even tested your gun with the modifications? Also, I don't think teflon-ing everything in the nozzle is such a good idea. The parts should have a tight enough tollerance that any added change in the size of parts would cause excess friction, giving you less blowback than would otherwise have been had. In addition to a monster hammer spring, give it some monster gas... Make sure you have a steel hi-flow valve, and use the madbull CO2 adaptors. Set it to it's lowest setting first and work your way up. You better have a metal slide?... Unless that was an obvious modification. I know my SVIs stock slide is heavier than most metal slides, but if you're going for kick and power, you need C&C milled strength. Also, definately increase the length of your inner barrel. Buy/make a custom silencer adaptor barrel, and get something like an M4 length custom barrel. Like Vicious and his M4 length glock barrel, you should see the biggest FPS increase. After all of the mentioned above, you should have the most monsterous SV out there... But seeing as most of it is rediculously expensive and stupid, It'll never happen... SVs aren't ment to have massive blow back and FPS. If you wanted to do that, you shoulda started with a Hi-Capa as a base. Link to post Share on other sites
hitmanNo2 Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 Massive blow back with a hi-cappa? They're designed for a high rate of fire and not to kick hard. Link to post Share on other sites
Five-sEvEn Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 <--- Never shot one I guess WAs are awesome in terms of blow back, but I just can't see any WA with high fps... With the amount of parts avaliable for the Hi-cappa, I was certain it could compete with WA in terms of blow back~ Link to post Share on other sites
Mathub Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 SVs aren't ment to have massive blow back and FPS. If you wanted to do that, you shoulda started with a Hi-Capa as a base. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I don't agree with that. Just take an 5 inch SCW SV and a Hicapa. The WA outperforms the TM in both terms of power and blowback. About fps, I'd say WA do the same with 0.25 that marui with 0.20. Same gas, same temp. Link to post Share on other sites
Five-sEvEn Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 Godfunnit... I'm really bad at this... I think I need to try me some of those new-fangled SCWs... Link to post Share on other sites
hardboiledcop Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 Yeah, best not to give out advice if your unsure. WA's far surpass Hi-capa's in power and kick, sure its cheaper to upgrade the hicapa, but the sv is a much better base if you're looking for very high power levels.. Link to post Share on other sites
r.ocelot Posted June 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 My SVI is the old magna system, but I think the hammer springs should be the same. Look for the largest hammer spring you can find... like some monster 600% one if you can find/make one. They don't have to particularly be for WA guns, as I'm sure another spring was compatible, I just don't remember what it was. Guarder 150% with a bb under is the most I can fit in the main spring housing, if I want the hammer to move at all. What does removing the nozzle return spring do? sounds like it would jam your gun a lot more. But if the blowback system is different from the magna, I could be totally wrong... I still don't see any benefit from it. I was raking the slide, and often enough, the nozzle return spring would move the nozzle away from the gas route before the slide moves as far as it can. Removing that spring ensures that the nozzle will remain connected to the route for as long as possible. What pin thing are you talking about? I hope it's not your float valve, or the pin holding the float valve in... Have you even tested your gun with the modifications? You know how a WA loading nozzle is in two outer pieces? Well, in the rear end, there's a pin/cone shaped thing, and it looks similar to a flow restrictor. All I did was to punch it out. Yes, I tested my gun with the modifications, and there was a definite increase in performance. Also, I don't think teflon-ing everything in the nozzle is such a good idea. The parts should have a tight enough tollerance that any added change in the size of parts would cause excess friction, giving you less blowback than would otherwise have been had. The tight tolerance of plastic parts is not enough to prevent gas leaks. Also, the floating valve leaks a lot of useless air into blowback when it's suppose to power the BB, and when that's done, it leaks air to propel the now-non present bb when it's suppose to power the blowback. In addition to a monster hammer spring, give it some monster gas... Make sure you have a steel hi-flow valve, and use the madbull CO2 adaptors. Set it to it's lowest setting first and work your way up. Monster gas? you mean CO2? I honestly don't think that the WA mags can handle that. You better have a metal slide?... Unless that was an obvious modification. I know my SVIs stock slide is heavier than most metal slides, but if you're going for kick and power, you need C&C milled strength. Yup, I forgot to mention that I have a alum slide installed. Also, definately increase the length of your inner barrel. Buy/make a custom silencer adaptor barrel, and get something like an M4 length custom barrel. Like Vicious and his M4 length glock barrel, you should see the biggest FPS increase. After all of the mentioned above, you should have the most monsterous SV out there... But seeing as most of it is rediculously expensive and stupid, It'll never happen... I know how to increase FPS by doing stuff like that, but that's not what I'm trying to accomplish. What I want is to divide the gas meant for 33+ shots into 15 or more shots.... Money's not an issue here... base gun: $230 metal slide: $100 sd loading nozzle set: $15 or so SD floating valve: $5 Guarder spring set: $9 SD blue grip: $50 CL thumb rested slide lock: $79 Sheriff safety: $50 PDI 6.01: $42 PDI recoil rod guide :$23 CL SCW2 hammer set: $50 CL SCW2 disconnector: $32 PGC lips: $19 SD follower: $14 Link to post Share on other sites
snowman Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 <--- Never shot one I guess WAs are awesome in terms of blow back, but I just can't see any WA with high fps... Presumably your guide dog doesn't read reviews... Stock TM's don't come close to WA... With the amount of parts avaliable for the Hi-cappa, I was certain it could compete with WA in terms of blow back~ <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Step one with a TM Hi-Capa is to dump the featherweight slide. It's a very FAST cycler, but the kick is weedy... Cheers. Link to post Share on other sites
Five-sEvEn Posted June 11, 2007 Report Share Posted June 11, 2007 Presumably your guide dog doesn't read reviews... Stock TM's don't come close to WA... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Right~ Forgot about reviews... lol. My 5" SVI limited was in pretty bad condition when I last chronoed it. Doing something like 270 with green and .2s. But it had a horrible air seal all around. I fixed that and forgot I never chronoed it after that, so I automatically assumed WAs weren't the best performers for FPS. Also, before he sold it, Vipers SCW SWAT Kimber had horrible slide response even on green, (especially compared to my SV), so I assumed from that, that the new SCW series wasn't all it's cracked up to be. And why is this discussion still going? I know the TM G17 thread is still there, but that mistake was stopped after a refresher course with the rules. Shouldn't this be locked by now? Link to post Share on other sites
the cleaner Posted June 12, 2007 Report Share Posted June 12, 2007 r.ocelot, you might want to consider using an oversized O-ring (or oversized piston head w/ O-ring) and/or open the bore of your blowback chamber/cylinder.. .just like in cars. .you want to increase your compression. You can modify your current piston head to accept a larger O-ring, buy the CP piston head, or have a machinists machine you one to your specs. you can increase your bore of your cylinder or just polish it up to a mirror finish. I would definitely buy a "floating valve". . in fact that and the piston head will definitely increase your FPS more than any other upgrade...and you don't have either. The upgraded floating valve is stiffer than the stock ABS one therefore is more stable when gas/air is pushed through high velocities. . more stable means less air turbulence and therefore more efficient gas flow through your nozzle and barrel. scrap the high flow valve and opt for the high efficiency valve instead. . it's the one with only 1 large port in the valve vs. two ports (stock has 4 ports) you also need a reinforced/extended firing pin. .this is longer and will depress your valve more, letting more gas into your chamber. upgraded mainspring because it works hand in hand with the firing pin/hammer so to sum it up. . firing pin, floating valve, piston head/O-ring, mainspring, high eff. valve.. . these are the BASICS for increase in FPS. . you don't have a single upgrade mentioned here. Without these upgrades and your 6.01mm tightbore, you're constricting the output because you don't have the power (from the blowback chamber upgrades) to back it up. this applies to both Magna and SCW systems.. or heck, any gbb. Link to post Share on other sites
r.ocelot Posted June 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2007 r.ocelot, you might want to consider using an oversized O-ring (or oversized piston head w/ O-ring) and/or open the bore of your blowback chamber/cylinder.. .just like in cars. .you want to increase your compression. You can modify your current piston head to accept a larger O-ring, buy the CP piston head, or have a machinists machine you one to your specs. you can increase your bore of your cylinder or just polish it up to a mirror finish. I would definitely buy a "floating valve". . in fact that and the piston head will definitely increase your FPS more than any other upgrade...and you don't have either. The upgraded floating valve is stiffer than the stock ABS one therefore is more stable when gas/air is pushed through high velocities. . more stable means less air turbulence and therefore more efficient gas flow through your nozzle and barrel. scrap the high flow valve and opt for the high efficiency valve instead. . it's the one with only 1 large port in the valve vs. two ports (stock has 4 ports) you also need a reinforced/extended firing pin. .this is longer and will depress your valve more, letting more gas into your chamber. upgraded mainspring because it works hand in hand with the firing pin/hammer so to sum it up. . firing pin, floating valve, piston head/O-ring, mainspring, high eff. valve.. . these are the BASICS for increase in FPS. . you don't have a single upgrade mentioned here. Without these upgrades and your 6.01mm tightbore, you're constricting the output because you don't have the power (from the blowback chamber upgrades) to back it up. this applies to both Magna and SCW systems.. or heck, any gbb. Hi Terrance, I already have an over-sized oring installed, the inside of the blowback unit is already mirror polished. I'm already using the SD floating valve set. The firing pin is included with the CL/CP hammer set, and I'm using a guarder 150% hammer spring with a bb under. I think I mentioned those in the first post. Link to post Share on other sites
the cleaner Posted June 12, 2007 Report Share Posted June 12, 2007 Hi Terrance, I already have an over-sized oring installed, the inside of the blowback unit is already mirror polished. I'm already using the SD floating valve set. The firing pin is included with the CL/CP hammer set, and I'm using a guarder 150% hammer spring with a bb under. I think I mentioned those in the first post. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> my bad. .forgot that the firing pin is incl. w/ the CP hammer set.. .and forgot again Guarder sells the recoil/mainspring together. SD POM nozzle set is ok. . .but the floating valve is still not much different from stock. It's just made from higher grade polymer than stock. .. You need the metal floating valve . .Sheriff, GRS and CP (I think) makes them. again. . you can bore out the blowback unit more in combination with an even larger oversized O-ring. ------------------------- EDIT: I'd get the CP piston head w/ O-ring cuz it's alot better than stock w/ larger O-ring. There's also mods you can do the piston head like increasing the bore or make it into a more efficient venturi for higher output. .that takes some experimenting . . or if you really want to techinical, you can calculate the -bore diameter you need for max air flow/velocity for a properly designed venturi. The formula slips my mind at this moment -------------------------- try out them high performance valves instead of the high flow. . .high flow gives you bigger blowback. . high perf gives you higher FPS. Link to post Share on other sites
twin_cam Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 CP firing pin will not do anything for you. Scrap it or keep it as a reinforced alternative for a stock pin failure. The Guarder version 2 firing pin is Extended AND Reinforced, the CP pin is merely reinforced. I've had PGC pins deform on me and mushroom at the head, so I have restricted my PGC use to version 1 only. The guarder pin is virtually drop in and works perfectly. Additionally, the metal floating valves will allow you to better seal off the firing stage of your gas system. The rocket fins on these are elongated, allowing the valve to close off completely. Good stuff. Link to post Share on other sites
r.ocelot Posted June 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 Thanks guys, T_C, I just ordered a guarder firing pin. Terrance, I'm a tad confused as to what the CP piston head is. Is it the loading nozzle's front or rear? Are they available for SCW blowback units? Also, will a Sheriff floating valve designed for a M92 work? Link to post Share on other sites
hardboiledcop Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 the piston head is at the back of the nozzle.. the o-ring sits around it.. Link to post Share on other sites
twin_cam Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 I don't believe that the m9 and 1911 floating valves are of the same length. To avoid an overseas order, you can get a machined rocket valve from poweredge USA. Their product looks to be a sheriff replica. If that is the case, it will get the job done. Link to post Share on other sites
Catman Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 (Five-sEvEn @ Jun 10 2007, 06:36 AM) In addition to a monster hammer spring, give it some monster gas... Make sure you have a steel hi-flow valve, and use the madbull CO2 adaptors. Set it to it's lowest setting first and work your way up. Monster gas? you mean CO2? I honestly don't think that the WA mags can handle that. That won't work, when you regulate the CO2 you don't transfer the liquid gas into the mag. Meaning your'll get one or two shots from a 'charge'. Oh I tried this with my 1911, at 500psi and the hammer spring couldn't depress the valve. 200-400psi was netting in around 450fps. The recoil is a little higher but you're better off with high-flow valves and Red Gas. Link to post Share on other sites
hkssr20det Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 Thanks guys, T_C, I just ordered a guarder firing pin. Terrance, I'm a tad confused as to what the CP piston head is. Is it the loading nozzle's front or rear? Are they available for SCW blowback units? Also, will a Sheriff floating valve designed for a M92 work? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I was checking them out on UNCompany last night, they don't seem to be making a SCW piston. If you are using a Magna gun, Poweredge USA has an entire metal blowback unit available. Link to post Share on other sites
the cleaner Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 Thanks guys, T_C, I just ordered a guarder firing pin. Terrance, I'm a tad confused as to what the CP piston head is. Is it the loading nozzle's front or rear? Are they available for SCW blowback units? Also, will a Sheriff floating valve designed for a M92 work? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> twin cam & HBC answered the piston head location. . .sometimes in stock WAs, the O-ring on the piston head will get stretched out and will jam inside the blowback chamber/cylinder. .thus your nozzle gets stuck. Good to replace the piston head & O-ring. The M92 rocket valve from Sheriff will not work as Twin Cam stated. They're not only different length. .the O-ring position is further aft as well. therefore, that means the "fins" will be protruding well beyond the tip of the nozzle, rendering the function useless. .well, the gas and velocity will be very unstable and you'll probably get leaks because the fins are suppose to reside inside the nozzle's tip (same diameter). If the "fins" protrude beyond the nozzle's tip, then you O-ring may not seat and seal properly. Yes. .PoweredgeUSA has the rocket valves available in addition to alot of other parts..PE's metal blowback chamber is a BIT too pricey $95?!?. Heck, PGC use to include brass blowback chambers along with their metal slides back in the days. . . . The rocket valves at PE are aluminum made..same as Sheriff's and same "fin" design. . GRS floating valves (WGC versions) are brass and have larger "fins".. .actually, they're not really "fins" like the Sheriff/PE/CP ones. .. I'm actually experimenting on making some rocket valves soon. . . From what I experienced, the CP piston head made for Magna guns works for the SCWs as well. I have it in my V10. There's no separate part for SCWs. . same with the floating valve. Correct me if I'm wrong guys. . my V10 wouldn't be working if it wasn't the same part, right? Maybe I need to check it out again? I don't know. .now you got me questioning myself. Link to post Share on other sites
hkssr20det Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 I know that Magna and SCW floating valves are different in shape. I don't know if it matters, ie you can use a Magna Floating valve in a SCW gun, but they do look different. I would love to know if the piston is the same between the series. I would like a better seal than the SD is providing. Link to post Share on other sites
the cleaner Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 I know that Magna and SCW floating valves are different in shape. I don't know if it matters, ie you can use a Magna Floating valve in a SCW gun, but they do look different. I would love to know if the piston is the same between the series. I would like a better seal than the SD is providing. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Even the CP,PE, Sheriff and GRS floating valves are different shape than the stock ones (on both Magna and SCW). . The key is 1) if the outer dimension of the "fins" match with the inside diameter (just undersize to "float" inside) of the nozzle and 2) the O-ring seats and seals properly. What I HAVE noticed with the stock piston heads on both SCW & Magna is the port through the piston head is offset (not concentric) with the actual piston head. BUT. . for the CP piston head. . it's completely concentric, not offset. So it almost seems that the piston head's porting does not need to be offset. . because simply put. .the CP piston head works in both. Nevertheless. .you still got me questioning myself. . now I need to check both piston heads (and check my V10) again. Link to post Share on other sites
r.ocelot Posted June 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 Another question if you don't mind: where might I be able to find the CP piston head? I checked the usual places, but was not able to locate it. Link to post Share on other sites
the cleaner Posted June 16, 2007 Report Share Posted June 16, 2007 UNCo. . do a search under "CP" or "CP Custom". . I do not believe it's listed nor labeled under "piston head". . HK shops (UNCo, WGC, I think even DEN) that carry CP parts will have it. . not necessarily listed online. . GNG carries them too. . but it's not listed under CP . Link to post Share on other sites
hkssr20det Posted June 16, 2007 Report Share Posted June 16, 2007 I asked Poweredge if their floating valve works with the SCW system but they have never tried it. I know the front of them looks different, but I am worried about the rear shaft. I know there are real differences between the two from the Airsoft Innovations flow restrictor instructions. You modify the two systems differently. I am willing to give it a try, but I do think they are different and to work on a SCW gun will require some modifications. Link to post Share on other sites
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