Magsz Posted December 23, 2007 Report Share Posted December 23, 2007 That may be the MSRP...at least im hoping thats not the actual retail price, lol. Link to post Share on other sites
BaBaBooey Posted December 28, 2007 Report Share Posted December 28, 2007 That may be the MSRP...at least im hoping thats not the actual retail price, lol. Another update... Yes, that is the actual retail price (about $550 + $90/magazine). I was ready to put down a pre-order for the rifle and a bunch of mags, but the more I look at the display model, the more I think I'm going to wait. They didn't let me touch the demo model at the store, but it looks awfully plastic looking, very similar to their pistols (not that their pistols are bad at all...but they're definitely collectors/display items and need some work before they can be put through the works). They still won't give me a solid date, but now they say possibly before the end of February. I'm sure all the HK online retailers will get it as soon as its released. My colleague put down an order, so I'm thinking I'll wait and see after I mess with it. I'm not a huge fan of the flat top receiver and short barrels either, so that putting me off a bit. Link to post Share on other sites
Magsz Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 Just going by the videos ive got to say that the plastic doesnt look too bad. Honestly, im really interested in the engine. I dont care so much for the stock gun as my guns NEVER stay stock. The only concern i ever have is how good the foundations are upon which i can then build. If the engine is great im sure a crapton of third party manufacturers will release metal bodies, front ends, barrels, stocks the whole nine yards. I do really hope the gun is worth the price. 80 Dollars for a magazine is approaching LA studios ridiculousness. As always, thanks for your insight Booey! Link to post Share on other sites
vtb Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 Honestly, im really interested in the engine. I dont care so much for the stock gun as my guns NEVER stay stock. The only concern i ever have is how good the foundations are upon which i can then build. Agreed. If it shoots good (on par with stock AEG for example), has good blowback and has Real-steel dimensions - it doesn't really matter what the quality of base plasic body. Link to post Share on other sites
BaBaBooey Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 Agreed. If it shoots good (on par with stock AEG for example), has good blowback and has Real-steel dimensions - it doesn't really matter what the quality of base plasic body. The clerk said it is 1:1 scale. I'm questioning both the internals and externals. I'm worried it will have weak internal parts (e.g. hop-up rubber, disconnecter, sear, hammer, etc...if this thing has recoil, these parts will definitely need to made of good quality metals). What's the point if we have to replace everything inside and out with after market or real parts. I've used many gas blow backs (from Youth's MP5 to liquid charged rifles), NOTHING will ever come close to the recoil of a real weapon. I personally think the recoil of YE's system is perfect in terms of not being too heavy or loud to get annoying (has a nice popping sound unlike that of an AEG, which I really dislike). Hopefully in a few months all our questions will be answered! Link to post Share on other sites
tililin Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 i want it now Link to post Share on other sites
r.ocelot Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 Should we assume that the recoil in the vid is from 134a? Link to post Share on other sites
Magsz Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 Yeah, i think its probably safe to say that the gun in the video is run off of 134a considering its a japanese product and they have strict laws in regards to FPS/joules. Man, Booey, i agree with you 100% but who buys a gun these days and leaves it stock? Ok, i should rephrase that. Who buys a gun these days and leaves it stock that actually cares about the way the weapon performs and spent more than 500 dollars on the base. VERY few people. Should we be getting more for our money? Absolutely. Will we get more for our money? You bet your *albatross* we wont. Airsoft is about making the consumer pay as much as possible for toys manufactured out of sub par materials. We are paying way too much money for what we are getting. The only reason why it works is because comparatively speaking our hobby really isnt THAT expensive. Link to post Share on other sites
BaBaBooey Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 Oh no doubt, I'm with you 100%! I FULLY intend mess with the internals of this thing...KNS spin pins, Timney match trigger, pneumatic recoil buffer...the list in my mind is endless. Imagine an airsoft M4 with a Ferfrans RRS...that's just crazy!!! I bet we can make this thing go leaps and bounds on what an AEG can do. What worries me is that it disappoints the average consumer who might say, "oh the hop up on the things sucks, I'm not getting it" or "I paid $90 for my magazine and thing mis feeds and leaks"...the thing dies. No interest, no after market parts. Based on the demo I saw, it looked "weak" and might be a great big failure...I'm REALLY REALLY hoping that I'm dead wrong. Hopefully this thing is good enough for the average airsofter to love and catches on like wild fire; I think only then we'll see a zillion after market airsoft parts to choose from. We can only hope! Link to post Share on other sites
Magsz Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 Im excited about this too for what it might mean for airsoft in general. If the performance is something that turns heads even in stock form i truly believe we could see a massive shift in the way most games are played. Fifty round magazines will cause alot of players to consciously consider whether or not they should take the opportunity to spray or selectively pick their targets. A gas in mag, blowback rifle with AEG like performance could very well change the entire sport. Im probably being overly optimistic with my musings but you really never know. Lets cross our fingers and hope that the engine is at least something we can build off of and wont be terrible in its stock configuration. The neat thing about innovation is that imitation (note i said imitation, not outright copying) is the sincerest form of flattery. If the platform sells reasonably well we can probably expect to see other forays into this type of market from other manufacturers. Slightly changing the topic, my only concern that i really have are the magazines. At 90 dollars a pop a full loadout for many people is going to run upwards of a grand. Thats no small feat to get over right there. Alot of people write off the PTW series because of the initial investment, magazines, batteries, cylinders and so on. These guns might also suffer from that same phenomenon. On a GBB if one magazine goes bad depending on the platform it may not be possible to repair the mag. Spending a small fortune on a replacement magazine is not something im looking forward to. Despite these potential shortcomings i still desperately want one of these rifles. My SP m16 didnt fit the bill for a multitude of reasons but i still dont remember being as excited about any classic as i have been for this rifle. Link to post Share on other sites
vtb Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 The clerk said it is 1:1 scale. I'm questioning both the internals and externals. I'm worried it will have weak internal parts (e.g. hop-up rubber, disconnecter, sear, hammer, etc...if this thing has recoil, these parts will definitely need to made of good quality metals). What's the point if we have to replace everything inside and out with after market or real parts. I've used many gas blow backs (from Youth's MP5 to liquid charged rifles), NOTHING will ever come close to the recoil of a real weapon. I personally think the recoil of YE's system is perfect in terms of not being too heavy or loud to get annoying (has a nice popping sound unlike that of an AEG, which I really dislike). Hopefully in a few months all our questions will be answered! I've passed 40 000 rounds on green gas thru my WA SCW2 FBI Trial pistol (completely stock). Then sold it to the guy who needed rar-used-cool-looking-thing-on-the-leg-platform - he still plinks with it in his yard. I've passed 20 000 rounds thru modified SCW2 gun (metal body and internals). Must say - when you start to metalize WA - they begin to eat money BUT unless you put all-steel aftermarket internals. Once you've done it - the eating correspondence parts by the strongest one is over. So i think - if they've made SCW3-like working hop-up and it has pro-killer like recoil and gas consumption - it will (hopefully) live long enough to average player not too get annoyed by weaknesses of the system. Link to post Share on other sites
Sale Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 Just got the latest ARMS magazine and this carbine is featured in more detail now. A few observations: -Threaded 14 mm barrel tip -Hop-up adjustment at the outer barrel base. Removal of the lower rail necessary. -Full stroke blowback. The loading nozzle is loooong! -The magazines are charged with gas from the rear. It features an NLS, which means you can shoot the thing upside down without getting liquid gas into the valve. -27°C and 0.2 gram BBs, HFC134a obviously: 79.1 m/s average (0.63J), with a slight difference between highest and lowest (76.8 - 83.2). The highest and lowest were not the first and last shots of the string. -165 mm groupings with 10 shots from 20 meters. A good AEG can go below 100 mm and sniper rifles below 50 mm for comparison. Still, not bad for a GBB. -Sale Link to post Share on other sites
r.ocelot Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 -165 mm groupings with 10 shots from 20 meters. A good AEG can go below 100 mm and sniper rifles below 50 mm for comparison. Still, not bad for a GBB. -Sale Perhaps that's due to the non-tightbore nature of the barrel, to keep the FPS lower than the Japanese requirements? Link to post Share on other sites
Sale Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 Perhaps that's due to the non-tightbore nature of the barrel, to keep the FPS lower than the Japanese requirements? Well the new TM AKM74 shot 85 mm groupings from the same distance, and TM are still using the 6.08 mm barrels... I'd lean more towards the hop-up on this one. -Sale Link to post Share on other sites
Magsz Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 Well, the tm ak hopup is notoriously excellent. TM's hopup design progression seems to get better and better over time so its no surprise that their newly revised AK hopup unit is even better than before. I really hope that the hopup unit isnt too bad and it cant be built upon. Sale, thank you so much for the information, i really appreciate it. I check this thread daily for any updates because as i mentioned earlier, im positively frothing at the mouth over this release. Link to post Share on other sites
uscmCorps Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 I still don't get why they don't follow Marushin's Mossberg M500 example and produce an export only version. Such a model would definitely have a place in the market and sales would be strong with very little, if any, retooling needed. Link to post Share on other sites
Magsz Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 I still don't get why they don't follow Marushin's Mossberg M500 example and produce an export only version. Such a model would definitely have a place in the market and sales would be strong with very little, if any, retooling needed. My guess and im fairly certain this is wrong considering WA's habit of releasing notoriously american .45's, is that they, like tokyo marui dont really care what the US is doing or what the US wants. Like i just said, im probably wrong on this one but who really knows. I plan on buying one of these and doing what i can to make it run reliably on green gas. If a green gas version was released i would buy one even quicker than i would the HFC134a version. Link to post Share on other sites
uscmCorps Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 My guess and im fairly certain this is wrong considering WA's habit of releasing notoriously american .45's, is that they, like tokyo marui dont really care what the US is doing or what the US wants. That wouldn't surprise me in the least, but it does reinforce my perceptions of how narrow minded and short sighted some Japanese Airsoft manufacturers can be. Lots more money could be made if they played their cards right. Like i just said, im probably wrong on this one but who really knows. I plan on buying one of these and doing what i can to make it run reliably on green gas. If a green gas version was released i would buy one even quicker than i would the HFC134a version. I'm with ya bro. While initially, I was all over this, TBH, I'm going to wait and see what kind of aftermarket parts become available to make it run on Green Gas. Link to post Share on other sites
Magsz Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 I no longer impulse buy airsoft guns. I wait several months to see if there are any kinks that need to be ironed out and what kind of aftermarket accessories are available for the platform. Its simply not worth it to me to buy guns that "fail" these days. Im still crossing my fingers and hoping that these turn out as good as i hope they will. The whole idea has alot against it but i really do believe that someone out there has at least got to have half the smarts it requires to design a decently performing, reliable gas rifle. Link to post Share on other sites
vtb Posted January 9, 2008 Report Share Posted January 9, 2008 Have anyone bought it? Link to post Share on other sites
BaBaBooey Posted January 9, 2008 Report Share Posted January 9, 2008 Have anyone bought it? A colleague has pre-ordered it - not sure exactly when they will begin to ship. Possibly end of February - early March time frame. I'll definitely check it out as soon as he gets it. Link to post Share on other sites
Rix Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 To bring some life in this thread again,, many questions about the internals, but what I personally miss are the Colt Trademarks ! are they coming on the gun, or not? and any info about the internals yet? greetings Link to post Share on other sites
SFOD-D Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 Nothing really new but a few more pics. (Unfortunately I don't know how to post a babelfish link here but the translation works wuite well) http://www.wa-gunnet.co.jp/cool/wa-araa.html Dang! My first post in two years, seems like those GBB rifles finally got me all excited about Airsoft again! Link to post Share on other sites
vtb Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 http://64.233.179.104/translate_c?&lan...ol/wa-araa.html Link to post Share on other sites
BigAl Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 Easy to shoot to enjoy the sky "empty shoot mode" also features! Gotta love babelfish, even Yoda makes more sense! Link to post Share on other sites
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