African Mercenary Loadout

[mikoyan99]

I agree, I think khaki would be more authentic. perhaps you could mix and match- khaki trousers with leopard shirt/smock?

Interesting what you say about the smg's- in comparison, 5 commando mainly used FAl rifles, I assume for reasons of it's what they could get.

Can I also suggest you wear the shirt shirt-sleeve order (arms folded up)- although smocks and long sleeved shirts protect against scratches, it's just too hot in equitorial africa. Even in the summer over here, we had to ditch our smocks after planning to keep them on- although our airsoft sight is a bog and it was 30 degrees on a sunny day.

I accept it may be a little colder in Finland though

-matt

edit: I did see the Leopard camos the yanks and south Vietnamese used, I just didn't think they would have been around in Africa at the time. Also, they wern't very "leopardy"- just blothches.

[sandstorm]

Yea, the US Leopard is probably too 'green'. Khakis are probably easiest to find. Althought... What would be really funny would be darn long beard, and Wehrmacht Afrika Korps uniform... *cackle*

 

At least for the Legion, I think the MAT-49 SMGs were because they went for high mobility. The FALs (and M14 & SLRs in Far East) make sense if you're in no hurry, or getting a good lift. If you need to run and cover ground, something lighter makes more sense.

 

Wouldn't make much sense to play African Merc right now, we got maybe 3 inches of snow today... Unless there was a fight up on Kilimanjaro...

[seawulfhornblower]

Yea, the US Leopard is probably too 'green'. Khakis are probably easiest to find. Althought... What would be really funny would be darn long beard, and Wehrmacht Afrika Korps uniform... *cackle*

 

At least for the Legion, I think the MAT-49 SMGs were because they went for high mobility. The FALs (and M14 & SLRs in Far East) make sense if you're in no hurry, or getting a good lift. If you need to run and cover ground, something lighter makes more sense.

 

Wouldn't make much sense to play African Merc right now, we got maybe 3 inches of snow today... Unless there was a fight up on Kilimanjaro...

 

If you refer to leopard camo , do you actually mean this ?

 

That was called BEO GAM Camo (also often referred to as "duckhunter") and was a local produced camo, that was comon amongst indosesian Soldiers in the 60ies and was also worn by the early advisors in VN, therefore often called "advisor pattern".

 

Or are you referring to this ?

which is the the so called US "Duckhunter" Camo made for the Army but widely used by the USMC in the Pacific Theatre, later also used by various asian Forces and Dutch Colonial Forces as well as french Paratroops in Vietnam.

 

I doubt that any of these was worn in africa at any point.

 

 

As for the MP40 I´ve seen pics of Foreign Legion using it still in Indochine prior to the introduction of the MAT , so as even the israleis used them in the early days, why not any mercenearies in africa...

 

A friend told me that (while serving in KFOR in the 90ies) his platoon has once found MP40s in a hidden depot.

[mikoyan99]

I was wondering myself, do you think dpm would have been around in the congo and/or angola? It came into issue in 1966, but whether ot not any would have been out there remains a mystery to me.

It's important to know because our teams "basic" uniform (the one designed for newer members and those not so interested in re-enactment) includes a dpm smock, and we were wondering if it was authentic.#

Also, i'm planning to replace my sidearm at some point. I was thinking hi-power, m1911, luger or mauser c96. Any other thoughts or suggestions?

matt

edit: is there full auto c96 available?

[pjones]

Hi-Power or M1911.

 

I've seen film of SWAPO during the 70's and 80's, and they were carrying around MP40's, so it's not out of the question.

[seawulfhornblower]

Hi-Power or M1911.

 

I've seen film of SWAPO during the 70's and 80's, and they were carrying around MP40's, so it's not out of the question.

 

...yes...the african contient was flodded with cheap arms in the 60ies an 70ies....

 

...one of the resons the AK ´47 was so succesfull, was its lowprice apart from other facts

 

I don´t think that the c96 was still in use as it wasn´t the most reliable weapons and at this stage many much better sidearms were available

 

 

Re: DPM....good question ..I know that some countries have dopted DPM at some point...but i wouldn´t expect it before the mid 70ies. Even the rhodie Pattern wasn´t introduced before the 70ies. Afaik most camos or non-camos were adopted from the regional former colonial forces, like "lizzard" (french, portugese ) "Moon&Balls" (Belgium) and obviously tons of OD or khaki british and US BDUs or KDs. It also seems that the Cubans introduced some of their grey lizzard to african forces.

 

So depending on the timeframe you want to display....DPM could be possible...but if your´e going for a 60ies loadout ..other camos would be more appropiate..I asume

[mikoyan99]

Interesting point about the dpm, although team is primarily based on 5 commando we do also aim to re-create the look of the later (70's) angolan mercs, so I think from what you've said we can keep it for now.

The issue with the colonial camo patterns is their rarity- much as we'd love to, we can't really expect our new members to fork out more than about £20 on the uniform to begin with, and we can't stockpile enough to issue to them. With dpm, most of us used to be in the cadet forces, and we had the good fortune of being there when they cleared the air cadet stores out- so we have tonnes of o.g lightweights and dpm smocks we can give to people.

Personally, I don't wear dpm anymore, I usually wear a Belgian denison.

On the pistol, i'd dispute what you said about the c96- although hi-powers and m1911's would have been more common, there would have been hundreds around in africa from the german colonial days, and also those made locally for so called "banana republics". They are quite reliable (on single shot), and they are still in service today, thanks to thier large magazine capacity and (relatively) high stopping power.

I'd rather avoid m1911's as they're far too common in airsoft, (and the design dosn't appeal to me) and the browning hi-powers and lugers too expensive (until w.e release theirs.).

cheers for the advice

matt

[seawulfhornblower]

Interesting point about the dpm, although team is primarily based on 5 commando we do also aim to re-create the look of the later (70's) angolan mercs, so I think from what you've said we can keep it for now.

The issue with the colonial camo patterns is their rarity- much as we'd love to, we can't really expect our new members to fork out more than about £20 on the uniform to begin with, and we can't stockpile enough to issue to them. With dpm, most of us used to be in the cadet forces, and we had the good fortune of being there when they cleared the air cadet stores out- so we have tonnes of o.g lightweights and dpm smocks we can give to people.

Personally, I don't wear dpm anymore, I usually wear a Belgian denison.

On the pistol, i'd dispute what you said about the c96- although hi-powers and m1911's would have been more common, there would have been hundreds around in africa from the german colonial days, and also those made locally for so called "banana republics". They are quite reliable, and they are still in service today, thanks to thier large magazine capacity and high stopping power.

I'd rather avoid m1911's as they're far too common in airsoft, (and the design dosn't appeal to me) and the browning hi-powers and lugers too expensive (until w.e release theirs.).

cheers for the advice

matt

 

Well..I agree that it´s a interesting design and very uncommon. I like it to.

 

But I´ve never heard of local produced African C96-Versions...??? Any scources ? Would be interested. You know that the C96 was never officially adopted by the imperial german army, although 250.000 were build. Most of them were sold to foreign countries. The army adopted the Luger 08 instead, also 9mm Parabellum. However I asume that the whole range of sidearms was available to the african countries ..and one shall nor forget that even Revolvers like the Webley were still in use... Anyway no one can tell for sure what might be more realistic....for a Merc of the 60ies ;-)

[mikoyan99]

I have to admit, it was an assumption that they were produced in africa, thanks to me misreading something

However, with pictures i've seen of "arms factories" the Simba had, they seemed to be making things like maxim guns, so it's quite possible they were cloned.

I think Iwas thinking of Africa because of a line in the c96's description in "Infantry weapons of ww2" that runs: "One modification which appeared in Spain was a version with selector mechanism which allowed the weapon to be fired at full automatic; with the familiar wooden butt-stock and a 20 rd box magazine, it became a species of machine pistol or sub-machine gun; utterly impractical but attractive to the less technically sound Chinese warlords and Banana republic generals"

If that dosn't appeal to African warlords, I don't know what does!

Also, I was thinking despite the fact they wern't adopted by the Imperial german army, many officers would have bought them privately as sidearms. And you're right, they do have a very old school african feel to them.

Does anyone know how good the HFC mauser is? Can it be converted to select fire? I've put my abomination kj works m9 on the market, and I think thats the most likely replacement. (unless I go really mad and get a mac 11; I have had my full sized uzi aeg gaffa taped into my holster before )

-matt

[sandstorm]

The Mauser was adopted unofficially by the Imperial German Army becasue Lugers weren't produced fast enough.

HFC (and early Marushin) C96 is NBB. No full-auto without making a new gun. It -does- replicate the full-auto M712, which was actually developed during WW2 for Gestapo. The NEW Marushin M712 IS select-fire, but... it's 8mm. The HFC and early 6mm Marushin NBBs are veritable box cannons with 120m/s muzzle velocities. The 8mm is milder, but with much ehavier projectiles, still hot.

 

An interesting Broomhandle development was in the 1920's in China. A local warlord had the capability to have his own arsenal make guns. So he had them make Broomhandles, which were very popular there. But since he wanted to standardize on ammunition, and had a bunch of Tommyguns... The broomhandles were manufactured in .45 ACP.

[mikoyan99]

NBB, ah nuts. Does anyone know where you can get them from in the uk? the marushin 8mm version as well. Expensive but sounds like a lot of fun. Is it LB-2? And if it is, can that be rectified by keeping one hop off?

cheers,

matt

[DarkMM]

An interesting Broomhandle development was in the 1920's in China. A local warlord had the capability to have his own arsenal make guns. So he had them make Broomhandles, which were very popular there. But since he wanted to standardize on ammunition, and had a bunch of Tommyguns... The broomhandles were manufactured in .45 ACP.

 

Another interesting C96 fact is Mauser only introduced the select fire version in the 1930s in answer to the amount of Spainish select fire C96 clones by Star [the Spainish star that is], Astra and nearly every other small arms manufacturey , which were cutting into their market in China

 

So it is well within the releams of possibility that some Broom handles found in Africa actually are later spanish clones .

 

DarkMM

 

 

 

 

[pjones]

I know that Churchill carried a Mauser during the Boer war and loved it.

 

During the Chinese civil war, some fighters would take select-fire Mausers and shoot them gangster-style to clear rooms - hold the gun sideways and allow the muzzle climb to sweep it across the room. It would be cool to have a select-fire one.

[seawulfhornblower]

I know that Churchill carried a Mauser during the Boer war and loved it.

 

During the Chinese civil war, some fighters would take select-fire Mausers and shoot them gangster-style to clear rooms - hold the gun sideways and allow the muzzle climb to sweep it across the room. It would be cool to have a select-fire one.

 

we´re having some experts here...cool. One should consider giving the c96 it´s own thread in the meantime

[Jagdraben]

Since the Real Sword Type 56 series has been getting rave reviews, and I've always wanted a (plastic) bayonet on an airsoft gun... would the Type 56 not be an acceptable weapon for an African merc? Particularly in Angola, as the side(s) supported by the West (and therefore employing mercenaries) were also supported by PRChina?

 

EDIT: Also, my local source for USGI WWII-era belts has sold out of them.

[pjones]

Since the Real Sword Type 56 series has been getting rave reviews, and I've always wanted a (plastic) bayonet on an airsoft gun... would the Type 56 not be an acceptable weapon for an African merc? Particularly in Angola, as the side(s) supported by the West (and therefore employing mercenaries) were also supported by PRChina?

 

EDIT: Also, my local source for USGI WWII-era belts has sold out of them.

 

I don't know, but you're right about UNITA accepting aid from the Red Chinese.

[mikoyan99]

If thats type 56 as in SKS/AK47, then definately-that sort of thing would be around anyway, and if it was the 70's then as Pjones sais, China would be shipping aid, in the form of said Kalashnikov clones. They would also be on the black market by that point as well, thanks to the Vietnam war.

I thought for a moment you were thinking of the type 97!

As I said, get your pics loaded up, it's good to see other peoples interpretations.

My teams over today for various things so we're going to do some proper re-enactment photos for you later,

matt

[mikoyan99]

As promised, our "re-enactment" quality photos:

Myself, 5 Commando, 1960's

My mate, Nick, SAS (Security advisory services) Angola, 1970's

Ace Combat, 30th dec: (5 Commando)

cheers,

matt

[pjones]

Nice.

[Jagdraben]

New load-bearing kitlist:

 

-USGI Vietnam-era cotton belt with natural leather M1916 holster

-USGI M1945 belt suspenders (I would have gone SA on this, but for the fact that I'm concerned about whether or not the SA suspenders would have worked with the belt)

-USGI Vietnam-era 45-cal magazine pouch

-Chicom Type 81 chestrig

-2x c.1952 French canteens w/ covers

-Czech Army daypack

 

Everything is surplus, except for the M1916 holster, which is a repro... and that happens to be the same price as a heavily used, surplus M1916 holster.

 

Price: $165USD (not incl. shipping).

 

Now all I need is a Rhodesian bush jacket. And I'll jack my sister's AK-47S for a pic, sometime soon. After I get the kit. Might try wearing my Stetson with the load-out.

[pjones]

Does anybody know where to get a Chicom rig for less than $40 US?

[Cyber Soldier]

I got mine for £10 at the War and Peace show.

[TheMerchantOfVenice]

pjones, as far as I know, the only one around is a $40 one from Moore Militia.

 

[seawulfhornblower]

pjones, as far as I know, the only one around is a $40 one from Moore Militia.

 

 

 

 

I recall flecktarn.uk havin them at some point...

 

@matt ....nice pics...just need some decent moustaches now.....

[mikoyan99]

I second seawulfe on flecktarn,

on the facial fungus, i'm only 19 and nic's only 16 bless him, so moustaches are out- although I hadn't shaved in a week by the time that picture was taken. Also, when cyber soldier does finally join us ther'll be more than enough to go around

For my sidearm, i'm now going for a vz-61- there were some around in africa in the 70's, courtesy of the warsaw pact and black market, and I want a full auto sidearm.

I'm going for the marushin one as aep's don't really appeal to me and gbb is too fun to miss out on

-matt