WW2 Kit Discussion

[Gadge]

I'm trying to build my first WW2 Brit impression but still have some questions that some of you could awnser.

 

First, I need to know if the Sten Mk II was still in frontline service in NWE theater by 1944 or the Mk IV had completely replaced it.

 

Second, I need to know wich kind of shirt should I use beneath the battledress blouse.

 

 

You seen MKII stens being used in line infantry units up to the end of the war.

 

MKV was the version usually issued to the airborne divisions (although you see older marks)

 

MKIII was a modification of the MKI with a longer shroud almost totally enclosing the barell and the reciever integrated with the shroud.

 

Sten MKIV never really saw any widespread issue at all and was a smaller sten.

 

As for a shirt, as the above said but to be honest for airsoft if you're doing line inf and you're not an officer then your BD shoudl be buttoned up and if you undo the top button you can wear a face veil as a scarf... although you're still not going to see a collarless shirt much without it.

 

A cheap option is to buy a khaki 'grandad shirt' off ebay and remove the pocket. Looks the part from a distance, costs you about a quarter of the price of a wool one and if much comfier (a few lads in our unit have wool alergies so do this)

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Collarless-Khaki-Shi...=item3a4ce42ea7

 

A few africa/italy vets also wore the half buttoned aertex shirt if they had managed to keep hold of one.

 

Or if you want to do a brit in italy impression you can mix and match wool and KD pieces.

[-Angel-]

A few africa/italy vets also wore the half buttoned aertex shirt if they had managed to keep hold of one.

Do you have a good source for one Gadge? My Italy impression needs something to go under BD and stop the collar irritating my neck.

 

BD in progress;

[Gadge]

Do you have a good source for one Gadge? My Italy impression needs something to go under BD and stop the collar irritating my neck.

 

BD in progress;

 

 

I'd try what price glory perhaps, i've not bought theres myself (mines form replicators and actually very close to an original...but as you know he can be hit and miss delivery wise.

 

Nice BD, is that two divisional flashes? i cant place the unit without going upstirs to look through my ref books.

 

I assume you're going for something pre 43 with the side cap?

[PedroPato]

Gadge, I will like to have these impressions:

 

- 1944 North West Europe seargent or NCO;

- SAS/SOE liaison with french resistance

- SAS/SOE liaison with yugoslavian partisans

- Raider (from a Commando Unit)

- Late War Burma Chindit

 

I have some pattern 37 webbing already as I also use it for the early sixties period of portuguese Ulramar War (1961-1975).

 

 

 

 

My only WW2 guns are an AGM Sten MkII tha I also use for irregular and GE (Grupos Especiais, Special Groups) for Ultramar War and a WE Luger P08 that I use also for this purpose.

 

Also, as I'm a collector of military combat uniforms abd webbing I prefer to buy original stuff.

[-Angel-]

Nice BD, is that two divisional flashes? i cant place the unit without going upstirs to look through my ref books.

 

I assume you're going for something pre 43 with the side cap?

78th Infantry Division

Royal West Kent Regiment

 

Its the combination worn in Italy by the 6th Bn. It seems most, if not all of the 78th had a second flash rather than a shoulder title. I've certainly seen pictures of the London Irish, Northamptons & Lancashire fusilliers with 2 flashes. Pictures also feature a mix of FS & GS as late as Cassino.

 

References from;

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Battle-axe-Divisio...1505&sr=8-2

[THE PIE PENGUIN]

Three questions

 

How can i stop my 37 pat shoulder straps from falling off my shoulder. Beacuase i cant get them tight enough to not slip off.

 

Also are there any light wieght standins for my BD trousers beacuse when i play i get really hot , really quickly or should i just get tropical trousers?

 

OK last question if i did get tropicl trousers and kit would wearing a beret be suitable beacuse i cant afford a sluch hat with my funds.

 

Thankyou

 

penguin

[Gadge]

"Three questions

 

How can i stop my 37 pat shoulder straps from falling off my shoulder. Beacuase i cant get them tight enough to not slip off.

 

Also are there any light wieght standins for my BD trousers because when i play i get really hot , really quickly or should i just get tropical trousers?

 

OK last question if i did get tropical trousers and kit would wearing a beret be suitable because i cant afford a slouch hat with my funds.

 

Thankyou

 

penguin"

 

The simple answer is 'its your hobby do what you like!' If you want to skirmish in a wwii style and just have fun then you could do either of your options.

 

 

If you want to be accurate.... wear wool BD, get used to it, they did in the 40s. You could get denims - these were work wear but occasionally worn in summer for combat (however i've about two pictures of this being done in NWE as opposed to two million of guys wearing wool even in august 44.

 

Berets were not worn with tropical kit (exceptions being the usual tank crew and airborne etc), when the paras went to Japan it was all over and they were all in 44 pattern kit anyway.. not a lot of call for tanks in the jungle either.

 

If you're doing far east the headwear options really are slouch hat/cap comforter/ steel helmet (im sure yith know a few other options) i've seen some fabric berets worn by Australian and Gurkha troops very late war as well (like well into 45).

 

While i love my tropical kit its incredibly limiting for wwii airsofting and you're pretty much only good for open day play or 'free for all' weekenders. 95 per cent of organised games require NWE kit.

 

 

As for your shoulder straps, if your webbing has stuff in they shouldn't be falling off. If you need to put them under your epaulettes on your shirt/BD/smock.

 

I think the point is it all depends what you want out of YOUR wwii look, do you want something vaguely 40s or do you want to be spot on accurate... the bad thing is that doing it historically accurate does mean you have to 'lump it' when it comes to the uncomfortable stuff.

 

Hope that helps.

[Gadge]

Gadge, I will like to have these impressions:

 

- 1944 North West Europe seargent or NCO;

- SAS/SOE liaison with french resistance

- SAS/SOE liaison with yugoslavian partisans

- Raider (from a Commando Unit)

- Late War Burma Chindit

 

 

 

Also, as I'm a collector of military combat uniforms abd webbing I prefer to buy original stuff.

 

Well you're off to a good start, the webbing and the sten will sort you out for both an line inf NCO in europe or a chindit.

 

Could do with blancoing to get it all the same colour.

 

I'd pick one impression to start with if i were you, I'm happy to point you in the right direction but they are all pretty different.

 

Best thing you could do now is get a set of serge battledress in either 37 or 40 pattern... four out of your five loadouts could use this, two of them require it.

 

[FireKnife]

I would gather this has been asked before but i can't find the answer.

 

Is the Mil-Tec Splinter Pattern BDU with imitation WW2 Cap acceptable at games of WW2?

 

I only ask as i have a set and a 1911A1 or Pistole 660(a) to use as well, just hope i would be accepted even though the item isn't true WW2.

 

If so i need to get some damn webbing now.

 

'FireKnife'

[Gadge]

Its acceptable at most games.

 

You can really make it look more the part by removing the cargo pockets off the trousers with a stitch unpicker.

 

The cargo pockets are the really glaring thing.

 

Head to toe splinter looks a bit odd given the scarcity of camoflage in the heer but as a starting kit its perfectly fine for CiA, Gunman, PoW games among others.

 

 

 

 

[FireKnife]

Thanks, trying to think what units / sections of the German Forces use it.

 

Now to find some webbing, add to that four pouches capable of taking my 1911A1 mags. Anyone know the length / width of the G43 pouches.

 

The only other thing i have that isn't that modern is Alpenflage (Liebermuster was too late war anyway). Well that and some OG Lightweights.

 

'FireKnife'

[Gadge]

The vast majority of the Heer used the zeltbahn shelter quarter as their sole camo garment.

 

21st panzer apparently received a larger than normal allocation of smocks and similarly Grossdeustchland got higher than normal lots.

 

That said i've seen a pic of latewar luftwaffe field division in splinter pattern trousers.

 

On the whole though camo other than a zeltbahn or helmet cover was very rare, a lot of items are tailor made for officers from surplus material etc.

[THE PIE PENGUIN]

Cheers gadge.

 

The reason i ask about the shoulder straps is that i dont wear a bd on top as you see from my pictures i either wear windproofs or a jumper on top. So i dont have epaulettes showing to put my straps in.

 

Also i know its my hobby and i will always take comfort over style. BD is good for the winter but when summer roll around I'm going to get me some denim.

 

Thankyou you've been a great help

 

Penguin

[Gadge]

Cheers gadge.

 

The reason i ask about the shoulder straps is that i dont wear a bd on top as you see from my pictures i either wear windproofs or a jumper on top. So i dont have epaulettes showing to put my straps in.

 

Also i know its my hobby and i will always take comfort over style. BD is good for the winter but when summer roll around I'm going to get me some denim.

 

Thankyou you've been a great help

 

Penguin

 

 

I can only assume your straps are falling off because your webbings empty? Normally the weight of it holds it quite firmly on your shoulders.

 

Then again I carry pretty much historically accurate contents in mine and it weighs a ton. (two bren mags, a grenade, canteen of water, bayonet, respirator, entrenchings tool, boots cleaning kit, blanco, rifle pull through and a few other odd and sods!) I tend to use the same set for most re-enacting and cant be bothered repacking it all the time.

 

 

Note its a little on the high side here as I was messing about adjusting it for comfort.

 

[PedroPato]

I have a pair of WW2 canadian battledress trousers, just need the blouse. I also have pattern 49 blouse and trousers but that its for post WW2.

 

Now I'm on a six months quest to win a windproof on Ebay but not much luck yet.

[kmntol]

If you want to know something about British webbing, this will probably help you. Lots of helpful pictures and info.

 

http://www.karkeeweb.com/

[PedroPato]

If you want to know something about British webbing, this will probably help you. Lots of helpful pictures and info.

 

http://www.karkeeweb.com/

 

Thanks a lot, thi website its fantastic. Did you know that Pattern 08 and Lee-Enfields from WW1 were still used by portuguese soldiers on the 1959 war manouvers? Two wears latter the troops were using Lizard cammo uniforms, FN FALs, G3s and AR10s.

 

My biggest dificulty in completing my Pattern 37 webbing set its getting the entrenching tool and its carrier because it costs alot to ship to Portugal.

[mikoyan99]

Quick question:

is this bloke wearing an oak leaf smock? The camos too faded for me to I.D. He's a german merc, in the congo in the 60's.

regards,

-Matt

[Gadge]

No its not german

 

For a start its got shoulder epaulettes, oakleaf smocks dont have them, they dont have collars either. Even the Pea Dot suit had normal shoulder straps in black wool when (rarely) worn.

 

Looks to me like 50s/60s 'duckhunter' type camo like you see on early advisory staff in vietnam.

 

 

[weegee]

It looks like some Austrian stuff I've seen in the surplus store near me. (Sadly they only have it in small.) I can't tell too much because of the coloring, but the size of the blotches seems similar.

 

THIS is what I think it may be, but again the color in hat photo is pretty far gone. I don't think it's duck hunter, the pattern structure is quite different.

[mikoyan99]

That's Australian - can't be that, it was issued only well after the conflict ended.

Cheers for the info on the smock Gadge, sadly my knowledge of 40's german kit is very limited.

It may be Austrian, not 100%. If the blokes ex French Foreign legion, and he was in Indochina, it's possible he might have been issued a duck hunter smock. Then again, it might be Austrian.

Sorry for that brief digression,

regards

-Matt

[Gadge]

The cuts wrong for Austrian (at least all the Austrian pieces I've owned), also the Austrians used pebbled buttons like the germans.

 

His epaulettes have traditional buttons of the 'four holes in a disc' variety.

 

If you look at his neck scarf its a similar if not the same pattern. It looks also to be a very light weight fabric (austrian stuff is understandably quite heavy given the climes its designed for).

 

The scarf looked to me like those cut from parachue material as US paras did, that why I suggested duck hunter or some similar comercially made pattern.

 

As its African bush war stuff it could be *anything* it might even be locally made.

 

Do you know who was employing him, chances are he's wearing whatever the regular troops are wearing. Flying into a warzone in your own combats to enlist as a freelancer tends to attract suspicion at customs

 

 

[mikoyan99]

He's a member of 5 commando, Mike Hoare's group who fought in the Congo. IIRC they had unnoficial UK government blessing. 9 times out of ten, they had old WW2/very early cold war British or French kit (american style) with Belgian or French camouflage. The camo definately isn't Belgian or French.

I don't think it's Duck Hunter either - none of the items i've seen in that pattern have shoulder epeaulettes, which I think means your locally produced theory is correct; professionally done, from an existing smock, but made in theatre.

Cheers for your help,

-Matt

[Gadge]

Its also possibly a civilian hunting pattern.

 

 

[Gadge]

Still looks like this:

 

http://www.freshnessmag.com/wp-content/upl...0/duck-camo.jpg

to me though.

Or a variant of this

http://www.oakleafmilitaria.com/images/0712us-u1-1.jpg

with epaulettes