Schaap Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 (edited) G&P M14 DMR: The complete package, straight from G&P 1. The company G&P has been on the market for quite some time now, and it has (without doubt) built up a good reputation if it comes to quality and looks of the externals. Having owned a G&P M4A1, I can only say that it feels like G&P has set a new line for price-quality with this new release! You can find more info about their company and product on http://www.gp-web.com 2. The real steel and the replica. DMR stands for Designated Marksman Rifle. The DMR fills the need for a lightweight, accurate weapon system utilizing a cartridge more powerful than the M16A4's standard 5.56x45mm NATO—the 7.62x51mm NATO. The DMR also sees use from Marine Scout Sniper when the mission requires rapid accurate fire. A comparison between real steel and replica: Real steel DMR: Weight 4.5–5.0 kg Length 1,118 mm Barrel length 559 mm Cartridge 7.62x51mm NATO Action Gas-operated, rotating bolt Rate of fire Semi-automatic Muzzle velocity 865 m/s (2,837 ft/s) Effective range 600–800 m Feed system 5-, 10- or 20-round G&P DMR: Weight 4720g Length 1150mm Barrel length 500mm Cartridge 6mm BB’s Action AEG (Automatic Electric Gun) Rate of fire Semi/full-automatic, no ROF specified Muzzle velocity 100 m/s (335-350 ft/s with 0.25 BB) Effective range 40-50 m Feed system Standard 160 BB magazine (M14) The weight and length (adjustable...) seem to be close enough to me... 3. The package The DMR came in a standard G&P box, just like any other G&P AEG. Everything was very well packed in bubble wrap, the magazine was enclosed in a cardboard box. This is what you should find hidden beneath all the wrapping: The features: -M14 DMR ABS Body – Metal receiver -Steel one piece outer barrel -Steel flashhider -M14 RAS -M3 Scope 3.5-10x40mm and mounts -160rd magazine Considering the price (depending on where you get it, around $300-330), this deal seems to be almost too good to be true… 4. First impressions When you get this baby out of all its wrapping and pick it up, you immediately feel the heavy weight of the DMR. Weighing roughly around 5kg (including scope and magazine), that is nearly 2kg more than an average M4. The replica is well balanced (though front-heavy) and the makes aiming quite easy to hold steady. The weight also makes it feel rigid. Giving it a good shake and twist reveals little to no flex or wobble of any parts. The only thing that does disturb me a little is that the plastic tends to creek a little if you hold/push it near the magazine well. 5. The G&P M14 DMR - Exterior First off, let’s compare the whole DMR: The G&P offers most features that the real DMR also has: - The adjustable stock length - The adjustable cheek rest - Leopold (Mark 4) VARIX III 3.5-10X40mm Long-Range replica, as commonly used by the Marines. - Pistol grip ABS body What it does not share with the real steel is the fire selector (RS is semi-automatic only) and the RAS. 5.1 The body The body is made out of ABS plastic (the real one is fiberglass). It does feel very durable. The texture is very good, and it looks like they removed all the seam lines, which is a very good thing. It's hard to give you an impression of the colour, perhaps if you compare it to real steel pictures, it looks somewhat lighter... The pistol grip feels - very - solid The cheek rest is adjustable in height by loosening 4 steel screws. This can easily be done by hand. The butt stock is adjustable in length by removing parts of it, this gives you the ideal eye distance when looking through the scope. The rubber on the back is just of the right hardness, not too hard, not too soft. Removing the butt stock also reveals the battery compartment. Both 8,4 and 9,6V mini batteries fit (loose) in. G&P does make HK416-type batteries for the DMR (which feature, unlike the HK416) a deans connector. I’m currently using a 9.6V mini battery, which of course this works fine too, but if you want a higher capacity battery (3300mAh), I’d advise you to buy the DMR/HK416 battery. Normal large type batteries do not fit. They are too long. What surprised me most was that I found a Quality Control sticker in the stock… nice to know! 5.2 The receiver The receiver is completely made out of metal, no complaints about this one. The trigger guard is made out of steel. Since pictures say more than a thousand words, here we go: Edited January 11, 2009 by Schaap Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Yeah! Waiting for the follow up about its performance and internals as soon as you can make it with your exams! BJorn Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Schaap Posted January 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 (edited) Sorry Bjorn, I've posted this topic a bit too fast, I was testing the lay-out... Here comes the rest: 3.3 The RAS Well, they really stunned me with this one. Made out of aluminum (6063), the quality was in-line with the rest of this DMR. No sharp edges or burs. The back rail that is mounted on the receiver is made out of steel. The mounts of the RAS on the M14 itself are also made out of steel. This gives a very good impression of durability and was probably a wise thing to do. The rails feature beautiful finished Knight’s Armament trademarks: 3.4 The barrel The inner barrel is a 500mm 6.08mm brass barrel, nothing fancy here... The outer barrel is a one piece steel design. Handy, knowing that DMR is over a meter long, clumsy me already walked against a few bushes and walls with the barrel… If there’d be a nuclear war, I’m sure there would be two things that survive: cockroaches and this steel DMR barrel. The flash hider is standard M14 design, it is said to be steel and I’d love to believe that. However, it failed the magnetic test, but tapping it with a key made the typical steel sound. Perhaps it’s stainless (high nickel grade) steel? The gas block is aluminum, and so is the front sights. 3.5 The magazine The magazine is a standard 160rd M14 design magazine. It’s dual stack, according to the G&P website. No fancy trademarks or anything. It does click very solid into the DMR. I also bought some Deep Fire magazines, which strangely were about 1mm longer than the original G&P. This makes using these magazines very hard. After some filing and removing some plastic of the magazines, they work fine. So… who’s size is off? I have no idea. Considering the price the Deep Fire’s go on various websites, I don’t mind the filing… 3.6 The scope Last but not least, we have the M3 Scope 3.5-10x40mm, which is essentially a replica of the Leopold (Mark 4) VARIX III 3.5-10X40mm scope (Long Range); the same one that is being issued along with the real DMR's. It feels very solid, being made out of aluminium. The scope rings are also made out of aluminium, with steel bolts and nuts. Featuring 3,5 to 10x adjustable magnification, adjustable eye-relief, adjustable windage and elevation, this scope is all you need. The image is clear and sharp (good lenses!), and features a standard crosshair (nothing fancy) To put the sherry on the cake, they gave it very well finished trademarks: 5. The G&P M14 DMR – Interior I’m sorry to say that I will be short on this one for now. The features are: - M14 7mm Bearing Gearbox (150% spring) - G&P M120 DMR High Speed Motor - Steel gears - 6.08mm 500mm inner barrel - Marui style M14 hop-up The 150% makes it fire at about 370-375fps with 0.20gr (sorry guys, no chrono here…), easily through both sides of a coke can... I’ll be downgrading to the European 350fps limit, keeping you guys updated with what I find inside... 6. The G&P M14 DMR – Shooting The M120 motor together with a 9.6V battery (1100mAh) provides a very nice trigger response and ROF. No measurements were taken, but in comparison to the King Arms M4 I have here (running the same battery), it is noticeably higher. The gearbox spurs like a kitten, I’m pretty sure if I open up the gearbox I will find nicely shimmed and greased parts. The hop-up can easily be adjusted to the correct setting, with plenty of room to spare for adjustment. Though airsoft replica’s never shoot dead center, the scope could be easily adjusted to the average center of where my BB’s would land. Now, for the shooting itself, I will post some pictures of test results later on (I’ll do them again), when I receive my new load of BB’s (I've ran out, sadly enough...) Current test condition - Prone unsupported, both 10 and 20 meters (measured!) - 0.20gr of very mixed quality BB’s - Almost wind-still, -5°C - 10 shots Accuracy from 10 meters: All BB’s fell within the cardboard card of 14 by 14cm. All BB’s fell within a 8cm radius. Very good, but room for perfection. I’ll definitely try improving these results when I have good BB’s (0.25gr, with consistent high quality) Accuracy from 20 meters: Well, these results were a bit shocking to me. Only 1/10 BB’s actually hit the cardboard card. Fortunately, the rest did hit the box the cardboard card was mounted to, approximately 30 by 30cm. The spread was actually all around the center of the card, and not to one particular side. Which is, in a certain sense, good. A tighter inner barrel could be all it needs. More results in a few weeks, when I'll be testing this baby on the field! Temporary conclusion: I thought before receiving this M14 that G&P just had to cut some corners to make it affordable, anyone would agree that this replica could easily be priced in the $500 region. Well, it seems that they haven't cut any corners really... so far I have yet to discover any flaws or fail-parts in the design or assembly. Am I saying this is the holy grail of airsoft? No, what I am saying is that from my experience, this is the first time I get this much, for that less money. I'd advice this replica to anyone that wants something extra over a regular M14. Edited January 11, 2009 by Schaap Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vercingetorix Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 (edited) How does the hop-up compare to that of a TM? Did G&P replicate it nicely? Metal chamber? Bucking? Those used to be the typical G&P pitfalls in my experience, if they fixed them, I definitely want one of these beauties.... Now, if only I could find affordable midcaps that actually worked(unlike those POS KA ones). DAMN, aluminum front sites.... All the TM M14s I have seen had their "aluminum"(as in the airsoft world aluminum usually translates to potmetal, though not always and I hope I am wrong in this case) front sites snap(not the actual center sight, but the two side flanges) making them a bit more ugly...... Edited January 12, 2009 by Vercingetorix Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Utty Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Good review, thanks! Looking forward to the test results with better, heavier BBs though, testing a DMR with low quality .20s is kinda meaningless. So the ~$330 really was the final price? That's just incredible. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Schaap Posted January 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 (edited) The hop-up chamber is plastic, I'm sorry to say that I can't tell you much more about it right now. I'll wait for some parts to come in before I open it up completly... it's useless to do it twice. How does it compare performance wise to a TM M14? I've only shot a few rounds through a TM M14 so it's hard to say if it's equal/better/worse than a TM M14 without testing them both properly... As mentioned in the review, I've owned a G&P M4A1, so I know what the standard hop-up is worth. What I kept in my mind, knowing what i just said, was that buckings come cheap and even replacement chambers do. As for the magazines, the G&P magazines aren't that expensive, and your sure they will fit & feed without a hitch. The front sight isn't steel or iron, it's simply too light. There is no way that I can tell for sure whether it is cast-aluminum or cheapo zinc-aluminium... If I'm unlucky, time will tell! Thanks Utty, I've ordered mine from WGC Shop, The DMR itself will cost you $323 Because shipping weight is 7kg, expect to pay somewhat more than for your avarage AEG. I paid about $70 for UPS Express, I suppose Denmark won't cost that much more than Belgium. Don't take this as advertising, but WGC is offering a 10% discount until the 15th of Januari... so if you want to save $32, be quick! Taking in account shipping and taxes, it is, to me, still value for money, knowing that a standard Tokyo Marui M14 retails at $389... Edited January 12, 2009 by Schaap Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vercingetorix Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 But it says pre-order for the DMR 14 now ON WGC that is.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Schaap Posted January 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Well... I know, it said pre-order when I ordered mine too, and 3 days later, it was half the world further laying by my front door =) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vercingetorix Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 I see... Wonder if I can do advanced airsoft's special order program, 10% off, and cheapo shipping= win!!!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
zero69r Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Nice review thanks Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Schaap Posted January 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 I opened up the gearbox today, to discover this: - nicely made steel gears - well done shimming job - good lubing =) - plastic, no bearing, spring guide - no bearing piston head - plastic nozzle Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Utty Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 Is the spring guide 100% plastic, or does it have a metal base? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Schaap Posted January 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 It has a shim on the bottom, and that's about it... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 I opened up the gearbox today, to discover this: - nicely made steel gears - well done shimming job - good lubing =) - plastic, no bearing, spring guide - no bearing piston head - plastic nozzle Is the plastic nozzle with o-ring aka air seal nozzle or just a regular one? How good is the compression? Is the piston head the G&P Exploded one with 3 banana shaped holes in it? What about piston itself and the cylinder head? Metal or plastic? Quality? Bjorn Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Schaap Posted January 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 (edited) I forgot to check the nozzle, sorry... I didn't have much time as I needed my DMR assembled ASAP... The compression is fairly good, but leaves room for perfection I think. The velocity with the new Prometheus MS100 spring If I compare the piston and piston head to other G&P reviews, I would definatly say it is a polyacetal (with 3 metal teeth) piston with a ported (banana shape) piston head. The cylinder head was plastic I recon, and I tought it had some burrs on it, not a very smooth finish. I should have taken a better look at things, sorry... Edited January 23, 2009 by Schaap Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Concubar Posted January 24, 2009 Report Share Posted January 24, 2009 (edited) I take it that this is a Marui copy? Can you confirm if the trigger mechanism is the same? That was one area that bugged my about the Marui design. Edit: sorry, I forgot that you had only shot the TM briefly, I'll see if i can get a picture of the trigger mechanism Edited January 24, 2009 by Concubar Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vercingetorix Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 What batteries fit in this baby? I am gonna order mine in a few days, so need to know..... Also, is it possible to fit a sunshade to the scope? Thanks! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 What batteries fit in this baby? I am gonna order mine in a few days, so need to know..... Also, is it possible to fit a sunshade to the scope? Thanks! Check WGCSHOP website for the DMR, there are battery options included. Basically a Mini type or custom. Large batteries fit, but you have to resolder them. If I remember correctly then YES, you can put a sunshade to the G&P M3 replica. Bjorn Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vercingetorix Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 (edited) Re-solder large batteries? You mean rearrange the cells? If so, I'll either have to do some filing or get another LiPo...... Or did you mean it ships with a mini connector? If that is the case, I am gonna switch it over to deans for commonality between all my guns anyway...... Can something like a sub-c celled 9.6v 3000-4000mah battery fit, physically? Edited January 25, 2009 by Vercingetorix Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Schaap Posted January 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 (edited) I take it that this is a Marui copy? Can you confirm if the trigger mechanism is the same? That was one area that bugged my about the Marui design. Edit: sorry, I forgot that you had only shot the TM briefly, I'll see if i can get a picture of the trigger mechanism Yes, it is an exact copy of the Marui... Why exactly is it buggering you? It is a little harder to take down than a normal V2, yes What batteries fit in this baby? I am gonna order mine in a few days, so need to know..... Also, is it possible to fit a sunshade to the scope? Thanks! As my review mentioned: G&P does make HK416-type batteries for the DMR which feature, unlike the HK416, a deans connector. I’m currently using a 9.6V mini battery, which of course this works fine too, but if you want a higher capacity battery (3300mAh), I’d advise you to buy the DMR/HK416 battery. Normal large type batteries do not fit. They are too long. The G&P has a Deans connector, I made a Tamiya-to-Deans convertor so I could use my regular mini batteries. Switching competely to Deans is a wise thing to do I think... You can screw the top-ring off the scope, so yes, I guess you can install a sunshade! Edited January 25, 2009 by Schaap Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Concubar Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Yes, it is an exact copy of the Marui... Why exactly is it buggering you? It is a little harder to take down than a normal V2, yes biggrin.gif The trigger mech on the Marui design tends to wear down, at least it did for me. I asked because the classic army M14 copies the G&G, but its trigger design is like the Marui (I believe, I don't actually own one). I thought that perhaps the G&P might take a similar leeway, that's all. I still think that the v7 gearbox is great though . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Abelius Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 The V7 is weak, hard to disassemble and not as easy to work on as the V2 and V3 IMO. Why is it great? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vercingetorix Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 Wha? V.7 is definitely beefier and stronger than a V2, and is far less likely to snap off in the front portion of the mech... Just my personal experience..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Concubar Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 The V7 is weak, hard to disassemble and not as easy to work on as the V2 and V3 IMO. Why is it great? tongue.gif Ease of disassembly and "workability" are questionably personal preferences, but I think most can agree that the actual box design of the v7 lends itself to sturdiness, especially when compared with the v2. Vercingetorix has already pointed this out, so I won't take it any farther. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Abelius Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 Exactly how is it strong? The cylinder frame corners are very thin and there are reports of then breaking even at stock power levels, not to mention SP120 springs and up where a few of my mates have had theirs broken. There is even an added flaw: the right side of the mechbox frame right in the corner is made even thinner to make space for the charging handle. Sure, it's stronger than a V2, but still one of the weakest mechboxes available. Even the "reinforced" G&P shell is actually thinner in the critical points than the Marui, we actually measured it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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