Starting GBB Riflery

[Unit 318]

Hey! I just recently got interested in owning and possibly skirmishing with a GBBR, and since I am a total gas newbie, I thought I'd stop over here before I even decide to drop a penny in gas-blow-back-ness.

My base rifle is to be an AGM M4A1. I believe the AGM is better (from what I've picked up on) because the metal body helps with cooling better than the WA's plastic one (correct me if I'm wrong here, I am honestly lost). I also heard gas is better spent in the AGM, although there are some times skips and misfires. Seriously, I have a lot to learn I know, because for the last 5 years I've been learning about AEGs.

My base is the [AGM M4A1] and for two external features I wanted [G&P CQB/r Front Set] and the [G&P 416 Stock]. I think this is generally easy to start with an I don't want to spend TOO much on externals because that's not really what counts. I being a Southpaw feel the need for an [Ambi-Selector Switch], too. I was wondering if you can put RS pistol grips on the GBBRs? I have a grip in mind from SKD Tac if you can.

Does anyone have suggestions for me? What should I get for the internals and such to make is skirmishable? Is there a way to make magazines run on C02 Cartidges?

Links to helpful threads would be nice too! But I can find them on my own then too... Oh well.

 

Thanks for looking and please don't flame the newbie

[McArthur]

Honestly, buy a WE. I haven't made the switch yet, but I will, and I'm not even going to consider the WA system (Including the AGM). I hear plenty of reports of the WA/AGM dying and not working, but I rarely hear any reports of the new WE models failing. Yes, the WE is more expensive, but the only downside is the poor hopup which can easily be fixed.

 

I'm just waiting for more WE models to come out before I buy one.

[Unit 318]

Well then we've both heard conflicting reports. I've heard that WE receivers get hairline cracks and the magazines don't cool. I've also heard that G&P WOC internals are very good.

Anyone with solid information feel free update me...

[Unit 318]

So after reading the AGM GBBR thread I have two internal upgrades that are necessary:

RA-TECH RAG-WA-bolt-022

RAG-WA-front sight-003

 

What those are so you don't have to look it up is a plastic NPAS nozzle and an inner barrel/hop up combo.

 

I was also thinking about getting this to replace the AGM bolt entirely (minus the nozzle):

[WA Hard Recoil Bolt]

 

Anyone use that Hard recoil unit? I really do want harder recoil than the .22-feeling recoil that the AGM gives.

[Roecar]

Honestly GBBRs aren't at the point where you can enjoy playing games with them yet. When your done building one you'll see what I mean. Yea its fun the first few times but problems will start to come out of the wazoo especially if you skirmish often with it. AEGs are still the most reliable thing to play with, that is not to say GBBR won't be at one point just not right now.

 

In case you were wondering, I've owned an AGM M4 and built a completely custom GBBR from the ground up to the same effect. Airsoft grade materials weren't meant to face these kinds of punishment. This is my opinion and argument on GBBRs.

[Unit 318]

That saddens me. I already have an AEG and have owned a lot over the last five years, all of them to some way becoming FUBAR'd. I was hoping I could break away from that and use a GBBR. If you've done the same thing to no avail then I guess I'll put the idea on hold... However at some point then I'd like to return to this idea...

[Stealthbomber]

Using a GBBR is kinda like choosing to use realcap mags.

It's undeniably going to put you at a disadvantage but, if it's what you want to do, you'll get terrific fun out of doing it.

 

I gotta say, people who roll up and talk about how either the WA or WE system is particularly good or bad are living in cloud-cuckoo land. Both types of gun can have enormous problems.

If there's one system that IS superior to the others it would seem to be the KJW gun.

Alas, by the time it arrived most people had already decided on a WA or WE gun so it faces an uphill struggle.

 

Having said that, the simple fact is that the WA design has gathered vastly more support than the WE or KJW systems.

This is, IMO, quite significant.

It means that the WA system, even if it isn't the best to begin with, is likely to be the one that sees most development work and see parts released that address the problems.

 

I think buying an AGM (or JG) M4 is still the way to go.

It's the classic "If you're gonna replace everything, you might as well start with the cheapest gun possible" argument.

 

Fact is that there are very few bits of the AGM M4 that will make it into your "ultimate" GBBR but, to tell you the truth, the same applies to a G&P or Inokatsu gun as well.

Even if you start off with a G&P gun you're gonna need an NPAS, might want a burst trigger or a Magpul stock and a Noveske RIS.

Very little survives to your personal ideal.

 

Buy the AGM gun, replace a few key parts and see how you like it.

In the mean time, if you are serious about owning a GBBR, carry on saving your pennies and invest in a good quality receiver.

You're going to need it because, frankly, the AGM one isn't very nice and it has several differences to a "standard" WA design.

Beyond that, let's face it, very few people want a hokey pot-metal receiver with no markings on it.

You're gonna want a Magpul receiver or a VLTOR jobbie, or something new (but equally cool) that we haven't even seen yet.

 

Once you have your fancy receiver you can pick yorself a barrel, front end and stock, along with a few other upgraded internals, and then transplant the remaining fancy bits from your AGM gun into the custom gun you've been building.

 

You should assume (unless you're a lottery winner) that this whole process will probably end up taking a year or so.

That's a good thing because it means there's plenty of opportunity fo companies to bring out innovative new designs that sort out things like the bolt catch and hop-up.

 

Now, I'm sure all the WE (or KJW) owners are about ready to jump in and point out how their gun will work pretty well with minimal modifications.

Yeah, wonderful. If that was all anybody cared about we'd all be shooting Marui M4 AEGs.

The fact is that people WANT to upgrade stuff and build something that's a "work of art".

Of course, if you don't you can just as easily fit only the basic bits into your AGM and carry on with that.

 

 

In use, the main thing that most people seem to forget is that your mags are absolutely critical. Use different makes of mag, or cheap, unreliable mags, and your shots will be all over the place.

Pick a make of mag and stick to it. Bomber seem to be OK in my G&P and AGM.

 

Once you have a reliable mag you can then use it as a basis for testing other upgrades.

You can't discover if your hop-up is junk or if your bolt is useless if the mags aren't working consistantly and reliably.

 

It's true that in a toe to toe battle you'll lose to a decent AEG. Particularly in extended battles you're going to struggle with consistency.

A good answer to that, which also takes us back to the whole "custom" thing, is to fit a burst trigger group and forget full-auto forever. That'll force you to use trigger control but will also stop you from using long bursts which mess up the way the mags deliver gas.

 

I also agree that a GBBR takes a huge pounding compared to an AEG.

There's some huge, heavy, lumps of metal flying around and doing it a lot.

I have 3 pistol mags and I rarely empty them all in a game. A GBB pistol gets VERY light use compared to your primary weapon.

Incidentally, that's why I reckon KSC are gonna have big issues with their MP7 but I digress.

 

Anyway, point being that you should expect some failures and you should learn to think more like a real-steel shooter in that you accept hat some parts are sacrificial and simply learn to carry spares.

For example, it is NOT a good idea to fit an alloy bolt carrier and a steel bolt catch.

Fit a steel (or steel-reinforced) BCG and then accept that your bolt catch will wear out and buy a couple of spares.

Same thing with other bits such as the nozzle.

Gather together a few spare parts, and the tools to fit em, and put it all in a little kit in your gun bag.

 

GBBRs are definitely not as practical as AEGs but that doesn't mean they're not fun.

Get yourself an AGM, RA-Tech NPAS and 3 Bomber mags and go see how you like it.

After that, just spend money as you need to.

[Unit 318]

That was a fantastic write up Stealth Thank you so very very much! I'll refer to that when I have questions.

[Trasher]

Looking at the all the mile long GBBR discussion threads, I'd avoid these rifles like the plague, unless I want to play the role of a Dremel tool wielding guinea pig who spends most of his weekend to order replacement parts (again) to fix the hottest new failure.

 

 

[TheFull9]

After having put a fair few hours of work in to my AGM, I'd fully agree with absolutely everything stealth has said there, all of that rings very true. Unless you've got a whole huge wad of money burning a hole in your pocket I'd forget anything external at the moment, focus on internal parts and magazines. Once you've actually got it to shoot properly and in a skirmishable way, then think about fancy stocks and front ends.

 

Again I'd agree an NPAS system is a must, personally I went for their full $260 replacement bolt and carrier, along with a bolt catch from them that is specifically designed to wear down before the carrier; I'd rather buy a $15 replacement catch than $100+ carrier. On the other hand however you can get the NPAS capability for a lot less money by using more of the stock parts, and they should last long enough for you to at least make your mind up on what you want, so go with your budget. Next I'd look at the hop unit, it may actually work from stock in which case you're golden, but there's plenty of cheap replacement options around which should remedy it if it doesn't. All the stock fire control parts, firing pin, trigger, sear, hammer etc should do you well over 1000 shots at least; which again will give you plenty of time to decide on what you want.

 

Magazine wise, I went with GHK as I think their design is preferable for avoiding leaks in the long term, but then again you're losing 20% of your bb capacity with that, so it's just weighing things up. Either way investing in a set (2-4) of higher end, good quality magazines all of the same type should have you sorted on that front.

[eel one [COE]]

I've heard that WE receivers get hairline cracks and the magazines don't cool.

 

Well sorry to be the one to brake it to you, but when using gas as propellent, what you want is magasine the don't cool down. Shooting with a gbbr or any other airsoft weapon using gas, you need energy from the surroundings in terms of heat to keep the preasure up in the magasines. Cooldown effect is NOT a positive thing and will cause inconsistancy between shots. So when you hear that WE don't cool down as much as the WA/AGM system, I would take the WE system.

 

Also considder the temperature fluxtuations over the year there you skirmish. Gas operated weapons rarely deliver good and consistent results in temperatures below 12c and all thoughts about full auto is a big no go under 15-18c. So I you are living at a place like I do, you will only be able to use your gbbr effectively for about 5 months a year unless also considder the possibility of using CO2 magasines, which extends the useability by 1 or 2 months. Now, as far as my google-fu takes me, I can only find CO2 options for the WE system.

[Kowalsky]

While i have to agree with Stealthbomber (he almost made me regret my WE purchase , really solid arguments), must say that one of the best (and for now unique) improvements you can find in GBBRs is the CO2 mag.

 

I always promise myself that if anyday Inokatsu masters the CO2 system in their GBBRs, i'll buy an Ino for sure. I've held (and fired) a KJW/TK M4 GBBR (which went really smooth and steady) and an AGM, which unfortunately wasn't firing as expected, and hence my "rejection" to AGMs (i know you can't judge all AGMs by just one, but if the "original" tends to break, imagine the performance of the "cheap clone").

 

CO2 is what made me take WE instead of KJW, but i find both really reliable GBBR platforms (not comparing them to the reliability of an AEG, ofc). Maybe Stealth is right, and AGM+Ratech is the way to go, but for now i'll stick with my WE, happy to have an AEG backup just in case

[Stuey]

I believe the AGM is better (from what I've picked up on) because the metal body helps with cooling better than the WA's plastic one (correct me if I'm wrong here, I am honestly lost).

 

 

I've heard that WE receivers get hairline cracks and the magazines don't cool.

 

 

Well sorry to be the one to brake it to you, but when using gas as propellent, what you want is magasine the don't cool down. Shooting with a gbbr or any other airsoft weapon using gas, you need energy from the surroundings in terms of heat to keep the preasure up in the magasines. Cooldown effect is NOT a positive thing and will cause inconsistancy between shots. So when you hear that WE don't cool down as much as the WA/AGM system, I would take the WE system.

 

Also considder the temperature fluxtuations over the year there you skirmish. Gas operated weapons rarely deliver good and consistent results in temperatures below 12c and all thoughts about full auto is a big no go under 15-18c. So I you are living at a place like I do, you will only be able to use your gbbr effectively for about 5 months a year unless also considder the possibility of using CO2 magasines, which extends the useability by 1 or 2 months. Now, as far as my google-fu takes me, I can only find CO2 options for the WE system.

 

Just in case you didn't get that, magazine and gun cooling is a bad thing. Heat from the surrounding air is needed to keep the gas in gaseous form, so the hotter your gun, the more reliable it will be and the harder it will shoot.

The WA's plastic body doesn't conduct heat as well as the AGM's metal one, so the WA suffers less cooldown. If you heard the WE cools less that's a good thing. Not sure if it's true or not though.

 

I'm staying away from GBBRs right now, but I think if i was forced to buy one, it'd either be a WE SCAR (they seem to be quite good stock), or a G&P WOC with a new bolt and bolt catch. For the budget option I would do what Stealth said and get an AGM or a JG and gradually upgrade it.

 

Stu.

[renegadecow]

I have a chart therefore I must be right.

*Scale of 0 to 5 with the latter being the highest. Will stand corrected if a chart having prettier colors says otherwise.

[Schaap]

Honestly GBBRs aren't at the point where you can enjoy playing games with them yet.

 

Says you

 

 

I've had great fun with my WE SCAR.

Only downside is that my part 66 broke.. not a big deal, as it only costs $1.50 or $10 for the reinforced version...