Systema Energy

[fiddlesticks4220]

I must be some kind of special, I have owned an *albatross* amount of AEGs and have yet to have a gearbox issue, except with a TM G36....... That 1/40 guns mind you. So the V2 bashing never really got to me.

[thartwig]

after thinking it over, i may or may not invest in it depending on their price. If its low why the hell not buy it?

[tome]

No offense, but if thats all that puts you off about the ICS, you are being incredibly shallow. I have not had a single person (including many real steel AR-15 shooters and police officers) make comment about the length of the reciever, maybe it's because it's all of 10mm longer than a real one. ....

 

Shallow is a bit of a harsh label don't you think Anyhow you're preaching to the converted my friend haha. I've been using ICS m4 since 2005, I currently have 2 ICS based Arma-likes and have had 4 pass through my ownership. There is no doubt in my mind that the split gearbox is a better engineering design than a v2.

 

What I meant was that some airsofters regard their hobby as somewhere between sport and model building. I think this is why the ICS has never really taken off in some places where the look of the AEG is as important as the function to the local players.

[Utty]

There is some wonderful irony here:

 

I'm guessing the largest market for V2 boxes is the U.S. where M16-a-like am bestest.

 

Fair enough, but this is also where 400fps + limits are common.

 

& most of us agree that upping a ver2 causes the problems.

 

The fact that so many replacements (including this latest offering from syst) are available, is testimony to the fact that the original V2 is failing & needs to be replaced.

 

 

Greg.

Tell that to all the 500+fps-without-problems V2 users around these parts.

 

The V2 is archaic and annoying, but people make do, simply because that mechbox happens to be sitting in some of the most popular and well-known models by far (ARs, MP5s, G3s).

 

Anyway, Systema only survive on brand recognition. There are so many better and cheaper alternatives available.

[frogfish]

I would say the market for m16s is not just the US based on sales by all airsoft companies and variety of M16s out there I would make a wager that it is the most popular airsoft series in the world.

 

There are many reasons to dislike the p90, g36, and AK as well. I continually had trigger issues with my P90 where it would jam mid game and need to be reset. I've heard more then my fair share of complaints about the wiring in g36 mechboxes, and AKs are just as much trouble as M16s. In my opinion it's not just the V2 that needs some re-designing it's the whole slew of AEGs, they are over engineered to the extreme.

[UrPeaceKeeper]

Shallow is a bit of a harsh label don't you think Anyhow you're preaching to the converted my friend haha. I've been using ICS m4 since 2005, I currently have 2 ICS based Arma-likes and have had 4 pass through my ownership. There is no doubt in my mind that the split gearbox is a better engineering design than a v2.

 

What I meant was that some airsofters regard their hobby as somewhere between sport and model building. I think this is why the ICS has never really taken off in some places where the look of the AEG is as important as the function to the local players.

 

Shallow being harsh? Yes, it was intended that way in response to your original post. It's silly to nit pick about the fine details of an airsoft gun that is already out of spec on other models too. That was the point I was getting at.

 

Now obviously it fell a bit short being as your an ICS owner (Lol sorry about that) but it gets me a little worked up when people cite something as stupid as "The reciever is too long so I wont buy it" If airsofters are that picky then there are some that should chose a different hobby, like, RS shooting or something lol The objective for some is Suspension of Disbeleif, of which 10mm's added to the already wider reciever and pistol grip and other minor cosmetic errors isnt going to make a dang bit of a difference

 

Not to get it any furthur off topic, but there is only a handfull of reasons I would chose any other AR variant over an ICS and they are purely internal and a few things external. Plastic Hop up (Which I've never had break, but doesnt seal very well with the gearbox) shoddy wiring switch, loud gearbox, and bleh piston and cylinder head material and that sad excuse for an outer barrel to name a few. The spring guide never bothers me because I replace it straight away when I get it in every gun I have. I'm very much into role playing, take a look at my pictures in the USMC thread, but I've never been so crazy anal about the details of a rifle that 10mm's makes a difference

 

ICS seems to be one of the few Armalites out there I recommend regularly. They are absolutely rock solid performers, and chances are, where I play, I'll see the gun come to me forupgrades, and it's a breeze to work on.

 

I agree with what has been said about Systema, they live off of their brand name and every time I hear someone recomend their product I cringe. There are very few items in Systema's line up I'd buy (Systema Magnum and their ok hop up rubbers) but even those products are not without flaws to match their relativly high price tags. As with the revolution gearbox, I remain skeptical that these will be priced where the average player can make use of any inovation, in which case Systema is nailing its own coffin shut.

[mcnuggets]

What is this emphasis on light weight that Systema suddenly has? And how much weight are you going to save by choosing lighter set of gears for instance? 50g, 100g? It's a drop in the hat compared to many other places on a typical ver. 2 gun where weight can be saved. (Shortening the barrel, taking off accessories, removing non-functional parts like heat shields and gas tubes). If anything I'd want my gearbox to be heavier with lots of high quality steel and aluminum.

 

To me it sounds like Systema is just trying to market their way out of a poor (but inexpensive) choice of materials. Spin it so that the gears aren't fragile, cheap feeling, sintered metal. No, they're light weight! In a sport where weight has never been an important consideration to the vast majority of its users.

[Stealthbomber]

What is this emphasis on light weight that Systema suddenly has? And how much weight are you going to save by choosing lighter set of gears for instance? 50g, 100g? It's a drop in the hat compared to many other places on a typical ver. 2 gun where weight can be saved. (Shortening the barrel, taking off accessories, removing non-functional parts like heat shields and gas tubes). If anything I'd want my gearbox to be heavier with lots of high quality steel and aluminum.

 

To me it sounds like Systema is just trying to market their way out of a poor (but inexpensive) choice of materials. Spin it so that the gears aren't fragile, cheap feeling, sintered metal. No, their light weight! In a sport where weight has never been an important consideration to the vast majority of its users.

I try to be polite most of the time but what you just posted is really, really stupid.

 

Why'd you think they put aluminium engines in Porsche Cayennes?

Hell, it weighs 2 tonnes. There's no point trying to save a few lbs in the engine components, right?

 

WRONG!

 

It's nothing to do with making the overall gun lighter for the poor ickle lambs that have to carry them all day.

It's to do with lightening the working parts which means they can move faster, stop quicker and put less stress on the rest of the gearbox.

Lighter gears can be spun more efficiently by a smaller motor and will draw less power from your battery so you'll get more shots from it.

A lighter piston (yes, I know they didn't talk about a lighter piston in the Energy gearbox) will have less inertia so a weaker spring will be able to make it move faster so you get more power from it and a faster ROF as well as it not causing so much damage to the front of the gearbox.

A MOSFET will be under less stress when it controls ligher gears compared to heavy ones.

 

You're entitled to your opinion and that's fine.

However, when that opinion is supported by utter ignorance of the reasoning behind the subject you need putting straight about it.

 

What you've done is like carefully examining an Abrams M1a1 main battle tank and announcing that it sucks because it can't fly.

 

If, to paraphrase Luke Skywalker, you imagine that the idea behind the Systema Energy gearbox is a bright centre of the universe, your understanding of it is Tatooine.

[mcnuggets]

Okay, I see your point. I take it back. However I don't want durability to be sacrificed (on an already fragile set of parts) for the sake of a few RPS. I think they're heading in the wrong direction. Lighter inevitable means more suspectible to abrasion or damage and I doubt the fewer stresses placed on those parts due to being lighter would be enough to make up for that. They still need to push out ~1 ft-lb of usable energy 500-1000 times a minute.

 

No thanks, I'll take the strongest, toughest material possible.

[Stealthbomber]

Okay, I see your point. I take it back. However I don't want durability to be sacrificed (on an already fragile set of parts) for the sake of a few RPS. I think they're heading in the wrong direction. Lighter inevitable means more suspectible to abrasion or damage and I doubt the fewer stresses placed on those parts due to being lighter would be enough to make up for that. They still need to push out ~1 ft-lb of usable energy 500-1000 times a minute.

 

No thanks, I'll take the strongest, toughest material possible.

Glad you can see the light but you're still not seeing the whole picture.

 

Lighter parts mean smaller loads on the bits they interact with.

In an event where a standard set of gears might strip it's entirely likely that a lightweight set of gears will actually survive because they'll stop more cleanly due to less momentum.

 

It IS all a bit hypothetical and the results probably won't ever live up to the hype but there really IS a huge potential for this sort of thing.