Airsoft Pistol Shooting

[FireKnife]

Right this is to all those of you out there a little like me, a pistol fanatic

 

Anyway what i am trying to find out is are there any players out there who would want to or would be able to get a group to participate in trying out some pistol competition shooting?

 

I have a range of ideas and different class types lined up. While i know this may already exist in the UK at clubs and such i was thinking more UK wide.

 

To those who are not sure what i mean the competitors will run a series of scored tests and compare scores at the end to find a winner, some tests will be about accuracy, others speed, others technique and some a mix of all of them. The winner would earn a prize or trophy for their class etc.

 

Sorry to those in the USA and other countries but this is really UK only. And anyway in the USA you already have IPSC, IDPA and similar things

 

'FireKnife'

[msx361]

Ive always been interested in finding out more about this, but i cant travel far and wouldnt be able to practice any where (dont have a garden or anything) to get good at it. So ive always thought there is no point. I like the idea of there being like training type day that shows you techniques on (speed) reloading, drawing, aiming, weapon jams ect ect.

 

I know there is stuff on youtube and a lot of written material, but being shown and given feedback by someone that can do it well, is a million times better then watching a video.

[evansy]

I wouldn't mind giving it a go but there just doesn't seem to be many places in the UK to do it.

[renegadecow]

Sorry to those in the USA and other countries but this is really UK only. And anyway in the USA you already have IPSC, IDPA and similar things

The "I" in IPSC and IDPA stands for international and both have airsoft representations. The fun part in participating in those events is you could compare time not just with people you know, but also people around the world. Plus you don't have to think much about the technical bits as the rules are already laid out as well as standardized courses.

[FireKnife]

Well in the case of the IPSC and IDPA i wanted to do something different to what they do. From what i have seen / heard it appears to be mostly people using overly modified race guns and similar. I am thinking more about it being about the abilities of the user, not the size of his wallet so would have classes for guns that are in 'out of the box condition'.

 

Then again the above is what i have seen and heard.

 

As for where to do such events it wouldn't need a large space, firstly as the ranges for an airsoft pistol wouldn't need to be that long and secondly as the courses are quite tight and up close.

 

It is really just an idea at the moment and i am trying to gauge how many people that would be interested in such an event.

 

'FireKnife'

[ED-SKaR]

I'd LOVE to do IPSC style shooting, BASPC (British Airsoft PSC)

 

Given that this is 2011, i've been thinking about making a 2011 racegun.

 

 

On a side note I have also seen full auto PSC, in texas I believe. Its worth opening several "catagories" for the shooting competition, based on what guns people bring, it would give people an excuse to use all the m11s that people buy and never use. I did a little PSC shooting with my pistol uzi, lots of fun.

 

 

 

 

 

Well in the case of the IPSC and IDPA i wanted to do something different to what they do. From what i have seen / heard it appears to be mostly people using overly modified race guns and similar. I am thinking more about it being about the abilities of the user, not the size of his wallet so would have classes for guns that are in 'out of the box condition'

 

You put a highly tuned racegun, and a stock pistol in the hands of an expert and the scores will be very similar.

Put the same two guns in the hands of a noob and again two very similar scores but much slower than the expert. Even when you play with highly tuned guns its still the skill that swings the gun.

[FireKnife]

Even when you play with highly tuned guns its still the skill that swings the gun.

 

True, but i am planning to have at least a Standard class for things like USPs, 1911s, Glocks and Sig's that still have iron sights and standard fittings and one class for ultra modified race guns etc. That way it allows people to enter different classes based on what they bring.

 

As for full auto i was planning a series of 'Specialist' classes which would involve such things as full auto smg's, switching to a back up halfway through a round or course and shooting from odd positions but first to try and get a basic setup started then advance from there.

 

'FireKnife'

[renegadecow]

From what i have seen / heard it appears to be mostly people using overly modified race guns and similar.

That would be the "open" division. There are different divisions for IPSC dictating how much junk you could add on your gun. The simplest would be stock, but is also least popular. One division that hasn't crossed over yet is revolver. I was excited when AIPSC (A for airsoft) started and was growing in popularity but was devastated when I visited a nearby range. Was told I'm more then welcome to bring my six-shooter and run the courses, but I'd be the only one around.

 

OT, I'm wishing there's a western action shooting adaptation for airsoft. I know they already have it in Japan, but it doesn't seem to cross over elsewhere.

[FireKnife]

I did find somewhat of an issue with revolvers. With GBB's at least you have a same basic mechanism and something to throw the gun around to simulate an action but with airsoft revolvers they all work on different actions which would lead to just about everyone that seriously competes with the same revolver as it has the best action. I am trying to encouarge a bit more of an open idea than having people turn up with one system as it is the best, i want it more to be skill than pure 'how much money do you have?'

 

'FireKnife'

[Cannonfodder80]

I'd definatly (sp?) be interested, but I don't have anywhere to practice so I doubt I'd be any good

[FireKnife]

but I don't have anywhere to practice so I doubt I'd be any good

 

Seems to be the issue for most. However most of it is being able to move and aim so if you have a free house praatice a bit then, i know i do

 

Also forgot to add i have made a class list, basic test list and what can be used as 'Standard Class' list. If anyone wants a copy wing me a PM.

 

'FireKnife'

[ED-SKaR]

There is an endless number of different similar shooting classes. One I like the look of is "3 gun" where you use a shotgun for the first 1/3, handgun for the middle then a boltie rifle for the end. Often involving a lot of running around so that when you get to the rifle you breathing is quite heavy, a good test of gun control.

 

 

 

I'd also like a baby liege, so we can PSC with springers! (joke class but i'd play it)

 

 

It just comes down to organising an event, advertising the heck out of it and hoping you get enough variety of guns to play different classes.

 

 

You would defiantly get enough people to play a standard class. I'd only limit the standard class to "semi auto, iron sights only". And see what other guns show up to define other classes.

 

non auto (revolvers)

standard (iron sights)

RDS (red dot or reflex sights)

SMG (full auto)

AEG ?? (who wants to PSC with an AEG !! :s, not me for one)

 

 

Also, where would an AEP be classed? could it compete against the GBBs in the full auto class? could it be placed in the standard class?

Also M11, G18 and similar select fire GBBs, could they compete in both the standard and SMG classes?

[FireKnife]

Well the classes i have set at the moment are (all GBB pistols):

 

Standard (10-15cm barrel, iron sights, mag capacity over 15rds, GBB)

Compact (anything too short a barrel to qualify as standard but follows all the other requirements)

Custom (basically anything GBB from a race gun to a Desert Eagle with a red-dot that doesn't fit the other two classes classes)

 

The specialist ones which will come later include:

 

Select fire SMG

Revolver

NBB and AEP

 

Also an Open class which is pretty much anything that is either a pistol or a revolver that fires 6mm.

 

Finally the only requirement i have put apart from safety is that all guns must be run on airsoft gasses, not propane adapted tanks or Red gas and that they must fire 6mm (seeing as 8mm would make a larger hole and lead to issues with scoring, plus not that many people would want to compete with their trophy wall Marushins anyway).

 

'FireKnife'

[ED-SKaR]

 

Finally the only requirement i have put apart from safety is that all guns must be run on airsoft gasses, not propane adapted tanks or Red gas and that they must fire 6mm (seeing as 8mm would make a larger hole and lead to issues with scoring, plus not that many people would want to compete with their trophy wall Marushins anyway).

 

 

Now why would you do something silly like that?

[FireKnife]

Well for the Standard and Compact classes it is a set limit, like in all things you have set limits. Also in order to get insurance to open a range you will need a defined limit, something in the region of 350fps, same as AEG's so i would not allow the use of Red as it often can put guns over this limit.

 

As for the 8mm, apart from the obvious only about 5-6 guns in 8mm are useable in the standard 3 classes and 3-4 of those come in 6mm version i didn't see the need to include it.

 

Basically i am setting down some rules for the classes, none of them are restricting in any way. I have managed to make a list of around 100 potential guns that fit standard class alone with its limits on barrel length, capacity and GBB action.

 

Like i have said there will be an open class were you can easily run a springer Colt .25 but you will be up against full auto race guns in the same group, so that one is really up to you.

 

'FireKnife'

[ED-SKaR]

As for the 8mm, apart from the obvious only about 5-6 guns in 8mm are useable in the standard 3 classes and 3-4 of those come in 6mm version i didn't see the need to include it.

I don't see any need to exclude them, as there are so few and 8mm has no appreciable advantage over 6mm in accuracy terms.

 

 

 

As for the power limit, of course insurance would be a pain but as we are not shooting at people, only at paper/card/metal targets then we could quite happily go all the way up to the 6 foot pound maximum for air pistols. over the normal range that PSC takes place (10 yards is a long range shot) there is no massive advantage or disadvantage to them, ergo it is still the skill of the shooter that is defining the score.

 

But its for the insurance company to decide. If they think having the higher power means a higher risk/hazard...

 

 

Banning propane is silly IMO as it is SAFER than airsoft green gas.

[Smoke]

I'd definatly (sp?) be interested, but I don't have anywhere to practice so I doubt I'd be any good

 

Ditto.

 

A few other team mates will be up for this too I expect. I'll see if I can get us some practice time, so we don't show ourselves up too much

 

We all use propane though, but I'm sure something can be sorted out.

[swannie_2006]

Well in the case of the IPSC and IDPA i wanted to do something different to what they do. From what i have seen / heard it appears to be mostly people using overly modified race guns and similar. I am thinking more about it being about the abilities of the user, not the size of his wallet so would have classes for guns that are in 'out of the box condition'.

 

Actually, IPDA rules forbid modified guns (well, highly modified ones). As the name suggests (Defense Shooting) those courses are built with real-life defense scenarios and standard weapons in mind. They have a different category for all calibers so results are comparable.

 

So, setting up a course on IPDA rules would be just what you are looking for. Look at the IPDA qualifying tasks, they are fun to shoot.

 

Of course, strictly IMHO.

[FireKnife]

But its for the insurance company to decide. If they think having the higher power means a higher risk/hazard...

 

As far as i know airsoft / paintball insurance (shooting at people or not) is lower than small bore rifle target shooting (so not shooting at people) so if i have to have a 350fps limit to qualify for the lower insurance cost then so be it. Plus it will be at a maximum range of 10 metres for the longest shots and they will be rare so

anything more than 328-350 is unneccesary.

 

We all use propane though, but I'm sure something can be sorted out.

 

Again this may be for the same issue as above. However things like ricochets and similar have to be considered so sticking to a set limit will ease that issue too.

 

So, setting up a course on IPDA rules would be just what you are looking for. Look at the IPDA qualifying tasks, they are fun to shoot.

 

Most of what i have looked at in regards to IDPA still seems to be over modified guns, even if they still have iron sights. But also i want this to be somewhat seperate from IDPA and IPSC, something that is seperate pistol shooting in its own right.

 

However that is for the moment, wether it ends up tied in with the other international disciplines is something to wait and see.

 

I don't see any need to exclude them, as there are so few and 8mm has no appreciable advantage over 6mm in accuracy terms.

 

Simple, they are larger in size, so any shots will create a larger hole and as i go with on the line scoring it will mean a distinct disadvantage as the larger hole is much more likely to run over into another score ring. At some point if enough people turn up with 8mm GBB pistols then maybe a class can be made for them, but for now as i have said the basics. Most people who have a pistol have at least a mid sized GBB which is what i want to get involved first.

 

'FireKnife'

[ED-SKaR]

As far as i know airsoft / paintball insurance (shooting at people or not) is lower than small bore rifle target shooting (so not shooting at people) so if i have to have a 350fps limit to qualify for the lower insurance cost then so be it. Plus it will be at a maximum range of 10 metres for the longest shots and they will be rare so

anything more than 328-350 is unneccesary.

 

I would wonder if there is a middle of the road insurance for air pistols/rifles. Would be worth looking into.

 

 

 

Where would one find the proper "official" rules for IPSC and the IPDA? It would be best to start with the accepted international rules so if this does take off (and I hope it does) then there would be no changes needed when it reaches that level.

[FireKnife]

Where would one find the proper "official" rules for IPSC and the IPDA? It would be best to start with the accepted international rules so if this does take off (and I hope it does) then there would be no changes needed when it reaches that level.

 

Most of what i have looked at in regards to IDPA still seems to be over modified guns, even if they still have iron sights. But also i want this to be somewhat seperate from IDPA and IPSC, something that is seperate pistol shooting in its own right.

 

Hate to repeat it but like i said this is a UK wide idea that is removed from IPSC and IDPA, but as i have also put if it goes that way and becomes like the IPSC and IDPA then chnages will be made to match them up or a section added for that.

 

If you want a copy of what rules and tests i have so far anyone is welcome to them.

 

'FireKnife'

[ED-SKaR]

Ok so there are 8 people willing to come >.<

 

Any views as to a good airsoft site, or other site, that we could use. Booking a corporate day at an existing airsoft site for this would be the simplest.

 

Any votes for what site?

[FireKnife]

Ideally this might require multiple sites to start with and possibly expand.

 

That 8 people is only this forums and is only in less than 24 hours of asking, as far as i know only about 15-20% of the people i meet are on Arnies or have hard of it.

 

Then again as it is rolling into spring and summer i am trying to set something up here in Scotland, maybe even get a half decent TM pistol for a hire gun so that people can join in even without having a gun of their own.

 

Will have to see how this goes but for those of you who can set this up at a local site then the rules and listings can be sent to anyone that wants to help out.

 

'FireKnife'

[Smoke]

Ideally this might require multiple sites to start with and possibly expand.

 

That 8 people is only this forums and is only in less than 24 hours of asking, as far as i know only about 15-20% of the people i meet are on Arnies or have hard of it.

 

Then again as it is rolling into spring and summer i am trying to set something up here in Scotland, maybe even get a half decent TM pistol for a hire gun so that people can join in even without having a gun of their own.

 

Will have to see how this goes but for those of you who can set this up at a local site then the rules and listings can be sent to anyone that wants to help out.

 

'FireKnife'

 

I'll have a chat with the guy who runs my local, as we have a lot of avid pistol shooters (including a certain very well known WA 1911 guru). No promises though, obviously.

 

I think the situation with 'modified' pistols might be a bit of a minefield for any rules. Things like TB barrels and hiflow valves are pretty standard for skirmishers who use a pistol as anything other than "It goes with my loadout". Which inevitably are going to be the shooters interested.

 

But hey, it's your show mate. You know what forums are like (as well as airsofters ), so the chances of everyone agreeing are very slim . I'd say you're better off just writing it up, and those that want to party... Can.

[FireKnife]

I'd say you're better off just writing it up, and those that want to party... Can.

 

Pretty much, however i am trying to grab 99.9% of airsofters that have a pistol.

 

In fact this evening once i have resolved a few deals i will sort out the two sets of tests (got standard done, just need to do advanced) and then possibly look at a stand in hire gun for this, maybe my trusty 1911A1.

 

'FireKnife'