Airsoft Pistol Shooting

[Kenworth W900]

Great thread so far, plenty of ideas. Gotta say though that the result of the poll seems inevitable. Almost all airsofters would love a spot of pistol shooting. IMHO, this poll should be asking to what lengths people would go to attend a pistol shooting competion - not simply if they want to see one.

 

To make this a useful thread to an organiser everybody entering the thread would need to answer these 3 questions IMO:

 

How far are they willing to travel?

How much are they willing to pay?

Pick one class you want to see.

 

Btw, my answers would be:

 

1. 100 miles

2. £40

3. Standard Pistol Class

[FireKnife]

Thanks Kenworth, the poll was a bit rushed and now unneccesary.

 

But you do have it right, knowing how much people would spend and if they could travel would undoubtedly help.

 

'FireKnife'

[Smoke]

1. Anywhere accessable by rail/tube in the South East. It's not like we'll have camo and rifle bags etc.

2. Hmmm, tricky one as it depends on value to be blunt. But ok, I'll go with £40 too for the sake of getting things started.

3. Standard pistol

[Kalashnikov_kid]

I may be able to provide an indoor "range" in south Dorset if plans go ahead as expected.

 

Can let you know at the end of march if it's suitable.

 

Ta

 

Dave

[farrasdevell]

Practical Pistol UK There is lots of info here including some matches upcoming.

Practical pistol in the UK seems to fall between 2 groups, the co2 .177 airpistol crowd (inc IPAS) and the GPP who are more open to airsoft.

There is the UKPSA, which is kind of a governing body linked with IPSC. It is a terrible world of sanctioning and range officers, procedure and leuge tables. Unless you like that kind of thing, they are mostly about the shotguns and mini rifles tho it seems.

For an addition to an already busy and time intensive hobby it is more than i can be doing with. The guys over at Practical pistol UK are all nice enough, a mix of entrenched old guard co2 shooters who still regard airsoft as toys and guys who really do enjoy the sport as well as some skirmishers.

UKPSA seems to be an organisation that really doesn't get airsoft as a practical shooting sport. It has rules (pdf on their site) for airsoft IPSC including stage creation rules it is an interesting read. But for anything you do to be properly linked up with them you have to meet a whole bunch of standard and attend their training sessions (££££££)

I'll be going to a few PPUK shoots as they are just down the road from the other halfs and also trying to get something going in Norwich/Norfolk if possible.

[FireKnife]

Well for the getting things started cost i was looking at about standard skirmish rates £15-20 maximum with a possible £5 hire and maybe a special hire gun class.

 

Thanks for the info farrasdevell but i am trying to distnace from those using C02 and anything that is run by people who think everything must involve cost, this is about fun and competition, a new branch in the airsoft tree.

 

As for those who can secure sites or would look out for possible venues your help is appreciated.

 

It's not like we'll have camo and rifle bags etc.

 

Yep, it will be the basics, gun, double or two single mag pouches, holster and gas and ammo. Also good footwear and a jacket / top you don't mind having a sticky or pinned name label added to.

 

'FireKnife'

[Spencerman]

Ok, I have just skim read through so please forgive me if I have missed anything which may make me sound like a twat.

 

I love pistols, in fact I have picked up my latest one only today, an AMT Covina model 280, in silver of course, and also in 8mm (.44 automag to those who are not sure). The exemption from 8mm is something that does concern me, where the obvious advantage of the larger calibre hole, is also a dissadvantage as the larger calibre will also not travel as accurately as a 6mm, look into the details if you are that bothered, but it would simply depend on the ranges and the way that you are scoring the event as to whether an 8mm would be an advantage or dissadvantage.

 

Scoring is another thing that would concern me. One of the things with airsoft that is annoying, but because of the nature of the beast is simply realistically unavoidable, is the lack of real accuracy. You mention highly tuned race guns, and yes for practical target shooting maybe these guns are popular, but I personally feel that the average pistol user has maybe no more than a tight bore barrel, if that, so is not overly accurate. That is fine if your target is man sized, as most airsofters are, but if you start getting down to a target with rings set a certain distance apart with different values for each ring, then a normal shooter will be no good. The only way to have that sort of comp is using race guns where each shot has a 0.01 variance of fps and hits the same spot time after time. No matter how accurate my pistols are, they are not that accurate.

 

There are many different categories for different pistols, and the out of the box one was always my favourite, that way everyone competes on a pretty much even keel. Bear in mind that no everyone shoots indoors, so outdoor shooters would be dissadvantaged as they can not set thier hop as accurately as an indoor shooter, where wind does not affect them. This would also affect the venue that host each competition, as you would want them to be as uniform as possible.

 

Another fun shooting event often seen at ponderosas is the ballon bursting competition. The targets are close enough that they are easy to hit, so it is more speed shooting than anything else.

 

How far to travel and how much to pay? That is the question. The answer to that depends on the prize. What would I get if I won? I am surprised to be the first person to bring this up, but that would dictate how far I would travel and how much I pay. If I could win a holiday then I would pay more and travel further than if I would win a trophy. Obviously this is something in the works, so I wouldnt realistically expect that, but there has to be an incentive for any competition like this, unless it was olympic standard stuff and you are just competing for the medal. I would rather have a holiday! If there is no prize, then to be honest, I would rather go to my usual site for the usual price and shoot noobs with my pistols, they are easier to hit than targets anyway.

 

Dont get me wrong, I would love to see some sort of airsoft pistol olympics be held, but unless it is done with every club nationwide doing the same competitions to pick thier own winner, and then all the winners going to one central point to compete for a prize, I dont see this as working too well. Maybe it could be arranged by being sposored by each club, a small amount each and they run thier own event, and then the small amount each goes into a prize fund for the final event. I am sure it would soon add up to a decent figure, it would just have to be organised in such a way as to make it interesting for each club to sponsor and participate in.

 

I would like to see it, but dont want to travel too far for the first round, and if I get through to the second would be willing to travel as long as the prize might be worth travelling for (as long as I can park there, dont ever pick a venue where you cant park, or London where you have to pay just to drive into!) I hope that my opinion might help to getting this organised, as I really do want to see more pistol use in the UK, even if it is now only airsoft, but remember that is is only that, my opinion, so please dont argue about how I am wrong about this or that. Feel free to enterpret on anything that you think is good however.

[FireKnife]

Thank you for the well put points but many i have considered already, just no-one has raised them.

 

Well for 8mm it is simple, to start off and to keep it all uniform it will not be in the standard classes, only if enough support is raised will it be included. I am not shunning it entirely but for now my focus is on both GBB and 6mm as they make up the overall market.

 

Regarding accuracy this has been tested and the conclusion i have come to is one based on personal experience. For the accuracy events a set target size will be used (the Marui pistol one if anyone wants to know) and will take place at a maximum range of 7 metres which i have seen amateurs hit. As for the speed events items such as card plates or even drinks cans will be used as it will be more about the speed at which you can draw and hit a target rather than the pinpoint accuracy and they will be conducted at short 3 metre to 5 metre ranges.

 

In regards to a prize that has also been considered too, however like you say it would depend on the prize as to those that attend. I think the first few getting off the ground events will feature a simple prize and will be very local but like all things more expansion will of course mean more money for those prizes so again it will have to wait until it gets more involved.

 

Finally travel ties in with the prize and the scale of the events. When strating off it will be local sites or areas that become available for use, when / if it expands then it will of course mean greater distances, but if the prospect of winning a few £1000 is in order i am sure people will be willing to travel.

 

'FireKnife'

[Kenworth W900]

I am not sure that a prize is A. necessary or B. a good idea. As with all airsoft its about wholesome fun and a slight competitive vein which urges us to be number 1 in the competition rankings. Having a prize just pushes this balance too far towards the competitive side for me. Despite being one of the very rare oppurtunities where a prize could actually be presented in an airsoft competition I dont think there is any need too.

 

Points mean prizes, but prizes mean cheating.

[FireKnife]

Points mean prizes, but prizes mean cheating.

 

True but for some it is an incentive and how can you cheat at this, you will run the course which will have a marshal and all scoring is done by whomever is event hosting. For many of the first few events the prize may be a bag of .3's or a bottle of Coke, it is only when it expands that the promise of a prize will draw others into it.

 

'FireKnife'

[Kenworth W900]

One small example would be people using upgraded guns in the bog standard pistol class. Some things you wouldn't be able to tell. For instance, if I put a tightbore barrel in my M9, how would anyone know?

[FireKnife]

Some things you wouldn't be able to tell. For instance, if I put a tightbore barrel in my M9, how would anyone know?

 

Stupidly i forgot this. Standard allows internal and external modification, just must use iron sights and have a barrel length within the set sizes.

 

There is an out of box class but that is were the organizer brings a gun and a small extra fee is charged for the gas and ammo used. This would be a more balanced class but as some would prefer to use their own gun there is the standard class for that.

 

'FireKnife'

[Arghoslent93]

I'd definitely be interested in something like this, a variation on IPSC in the UK would add an interesting alternative to regular airsoft skirmishes, and hopefully attract those who perhaps wouldn't come to games ordinarily.

 

A few considerations:

 

1. Would you have ammo/magazine limits, to encourage conservative shooting? If one competitor had 10 mags, and another only had 2, would you introduce a standard that limited players to a certain amount of kit? What about mag capacity limits, for example, 50rd Glock mags? Would speedloaders be permitted?

2. Would you have tournaments, perhaps at county or even national level?

3. Secondary weapons: would you create a separate class for people who wanted to dual-gun, or have a backup pistol once the other goes down?

[Kenworth W900]

So one event of the day would involve every competitor using the same pistol provided by the site - I like it. Sounds like that would certainly be a good one for the competitive guys out there. You could rank every guy on site in a list 1-100 (something not do-able with all the different classes of pistols). I bet I would be last though LOL.

[Smoke]

Unfortunatley I have to agree with the "prizes means cheating" or at least "silly arguments over something that's supposed to be fun" point.

 

I'm happy to leave an event knowing I've had a good laugh with like minded peeps.

 

That's not a dig at anyone thinking it's not worth it if a prize isn't on offer, just my view.

 

How would people cheat? Dunno, but I'm damn sure those inclined to do so, will find a way . Cynical, moi?

 

There are a huge amount of variables at play here, that FireKnife will need to standardise (good luck there mate ). Things like ammo weight, different holsters available/allowed etc. I can draw a pistol from a SERPA much faster than anything else for example.

 

Personally, keeping things from turning into a "my kit worth several £k guarantees me a win" is going to be tricky.

[farrasdevell]

I'm in the same camp as most of you guys. I'll be attending some of the PPUK shoots shooting airsoft standard and open. Mike Cripps at elite Burnley holds a few shoots a year oop north, that is way to far for me and would involve hotels. I'll be heading to some of the Barnet shoots and some of the stuff the guys at Wolf armouries organise as and when i can.

FireKnife where abouts are you based/planning ideally to shoot?

[Kenworth W900]

(Columbo) 'Just one more thing'.

 

If, and it may be a big IF, this event ever 'goes down' as it were then I would love to see everyone in the pistol and shotgun crowd bringing their shotguns too for a side game - firefight or competition would be fine. Reason being that it seems a waste to have a pistol shooting comp in which so many guys that also have shotguns are converging and because that way it would be worth the travel. 'We already have pistol and shotgun only days/events' I hear you say, well then my point is made. Don't waste the oppurtunity for a shotgun game. Let me make it clear to Fireknife and a few others that I wouldn't want the event hijacked by any means but as I have said it just makes sense since the same guys that can be bothered with pistols are usually the same types that often use shotguns (especially with the gas 'overlap').

[ED-SKaR]

I've always seen IPSC style shooting as "moving quickly and hitting targets", rather than the more standard "hit the middle of the target". You normally see medium sized targets (3-5 inches) and any hit on them counts as a hit, even if its just in the corner. changing the course between rounds to give a variety of size at range, some shots are easy some are hard.

 

I'd see A5 targets as the most likely candidate. The size is challenging without being difficult, paper is quick to change, or often put a sticker on. metal targets like cans or target disks would not necessarily drop for every shot, remember that some people do still use duster gas! Plus there is my springer class...

 

 

 

If I came, I'd bring a rucksack full of stuff. Several pistols (1911, 1911MP, uzi, springer) add to that my first line (holster, mag pouches ect) a few cans of gas(more than one certainly), bottle of BBs as well as a tool kit to do any repairs as necessary AND GOGGLES.

 

A lot less than I'd take to a normal skirmish(L86 is heavy) but not an inconsiderable amount.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. how far? For an one of event, (once a year or whatever) I'd travel quite a ways, maybe as much as 6 hours and stay overnight if I had to. For more regular events, and I would prefer to do this regularly, I'd probably travel no more than one and a half hours.

 

That means about 100 miles max if I was riding, though if I could take public transport...

 

 

2. how much, no more than £20, preferably £10-£15

 

3. I'd enter standard class first with my 1911*

 

 

*(then the subgun classes with my pistol uzi and baby machine gun, then springer pistol class, shotgun class . Of course if I do build that 2011 I've been thinking about...)

[FireKnife]

1. Would you have ammo/magazine limits, to encourage conservative shooting? If one competitor had 10 mags, and another only had 2, would you introduce a standard that limited players to a certain amount of kit? What about mag capacity limits, for example, 50rd Glock mags? Would speedloaders be permitted?

2. Would you have tournaments, perhaps at county or even national level?

3. Secondary weapons: would you create a separate class for people who wanted to dual-gun, or have a backup pistol once the other goes down?

 

Right:

 

1. The amount of ammo given to the competitor is dictated by the round, some rounds will have say 15rds in one magazine. Others will have 2 magazines of 10 which will be checked before each competitor goes. If you bring a magazine that holds 50rds then you will still only have 10-15 loaded in it, just more weight to lug around.

 

2. Yes if we expand enough.

 

3. I have a back up class that requires the competitor to have both a standard and compact gun and instead of relaoding they switch guns instead, that way you can choose to holster one and draw the other or one hand both pistols, up to you.

 

So one event of the day would involve every competitor using the same pistol provided by the site - I like it. Sounds like that would certainly be a good one for the competitive guys out there.

 

It is really to have one that is pure competition rather than 'i have £1k, i win'. But hey i have outshot others with stock 1911A1 sights.

 

that FireKnife will need to standardise

 

I'm working on it, truly i am

 

Things like ammo weight, different holsters available/allowed etc. I can draw a pistol from a SERPA much faster than anything else for example.

 

Ammo weight is up to you, so long as for now it is 6mm and above .2g, however what holster and what mag pouch you take is up to you, i prefer a Fobus which only cost me £5 and you can get a clone Serpa for cheap anyways.

 

It will be a long road but it will be worth it, though there is one looming thing over the hill, VCRA and how to prove a defence but for now we will cross that bridge when it comes to it.

 

I've always seen IPSC style shooting as "moving quickly and hitting targets", rather than the more standard "hit the middle of the target". You normally see medium sized targets (3-5 inches) and any hit on them counts as a hit, even if its just in the corner. changing the course between rounds to give a variety of size at range, some shots are easy some are hard.

 

Don't think i should have said IPSC now lol. But there will be obvious extra examination and setting the events in stone. So far they are just ideas which i need to run through and finalize before anything major happens.

 

FireKnife where abouts are you based/planning ideally to shoot?

 

Start in Scotland and have others help organize local events from a standard set of rules. Once we are up and running then i will have done college and the answer is anywhere i end up.

 

As for the shotguns that is again a 'wait and see what happens' thing. However for shotguns the targets will be more aim and shoot rather than accuracy ones for obvious reasons.

 

'FireKnife'

[Darcy]

Mr FireKnife, you get a resounding yes from me. Just let me know where and when, and I will come down! Yeah practice space is an issue for a lot of people, so maybe you can have the first half of the day be a class/teaching event, followed by competition in the afternoon, to give players a chance to test their new-found skills.

 

I look forward to hearing more about it.

 

Cheers.

 

Darcy.

[FireKnife]

Depending on how much time i would get to use the space we would be shooting in then a bit of instruction and practice before hand would be useful.

 

'FireKnife'

[FireKnife]

Wow we actually have a 'no'

 

'FireKnife'

[ED-SKaR]

Wow we actually have a 'no'

 

'FireKnife'

 

Probably just a support gunner with a grudge.

[FireKnife]

Right, now that i am back from the weekend at the missus place i can get the 'Specialist' section of the tests done.

 

Also i am thinking that on a day there would be a lesson from 9am til 10.30am then at 11am eeryone turns up for the shoot. The lesson in the morning costs nothing but you either attend the lesson and the shoot or just the shoot. Payment will be taken on arrival so that way once you are there full payment is paid so you can't do the morning lesson then go.

 

'FireKnife'

[fabien]

hello Everybody,

 

i love airsoft pistol and play everymonth the pistol evening at urban assault (http://www.urbanassault.org.uk/). I own a TM biohazard (with a black outter barrel with thread) and 2 WE cutlass (one with a shorter inner barel for lower FPS).

I like your idea of a small shooting competition and i believe a site like UA would be awesome (couple of targets per room, 5 rooms to clean in a corridor) and very easy to set due to the multiple building available.

As for the limitations:

0.2g only,

pistol 6mm with no inside customization and a speed limit sound good.

2 mag max and a speed check.

 

regards

fabien