Panzergraf Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Yeah, same here with SniperX. There were hiccups and things weren't shipped as soon as they could have been, but that's more Escort than him personally. Really sad business about Daytonagun. I have a few of his products, and they're of great build quality. Again, his turnaround times aren't the fastest, so I won't put all the blame on OpForce (whom I never dealt with), but yeah... Hopefully someone will pick up the mantle and keep on making Escort-style externally powered GBBR's like his. Link to post Share on other sites
sparrowOPFORCE Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 The truth is Justin from Daytongun (real name Lee wai kit) has breached our contract 2 times in 2 year. Sniper x is the one who broke the story of Daytonagun breaching our contract. The sad part is most of you seen this happen when sniper x the one who broke the story made a post about Justin selling to tony at his shop. The link he put up pictured many m249 kits that I did not sell and said that tony is now the new distributor while still being under contract with us. I have spoken to tony on the phone and he said he had no idea that we were under contract and if he would of known he would of not did this. You can even see it online. Airsoft extreme is selling these guns and has been for a long time. This was also a breach of contract. We never sold them these pieces and is proof of his break as well as selling to another shop. The contract was we are the U.S. distributor. We are now in the courts and suing him for breach of contract and character defamation. Daytongun has been emailing people trying to make us look bad because we are now making them here in the USA because we dont want to work with him anymore. He has said many thing that are not true. His list is fabricated which anyone can do with a word program. It is true we are not accepting anymore order as of 12/29/11 I will update everyone on the courts decision. The bad thing is its the customers who hear this and believe it. Well if you are one of the few who ordered and do not want your piece you can have a refund right away. Or you can wait for us to have them made here in the USA with more upgrades. We estimate our new kits to be complete in about 8 weeks and to be made in the usa. Link to post Share on other sites
frogfish Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 This reads like a repeat of a thread on CA.net from about 5 years ago.... hopefully it won't play out the same.... Link to post Share on other sites
kullwarrior Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 This is one of the biggest reason I left Classic Airsoft and go back to stinky propane. It just isn't worth my time and money. Link to post Share on other sites
Wingmann Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 This is one of the biggest reason I left Classic Airsoft and go back to stinky propane. Because of forum arguements? Link to post Share on other sites
Wingmann Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 Let's see if I understood this right: - DG provided kits to someone else in the US. - Your contract is broken but you keep asking for kits. - You don't pay for them. Link to post Share on other sites
kken Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 In the classic world of things, using Sniper X as some kind of "evidence" or reputable source is probably the worst thing you can do. Anything Paul says means exactly squat to me and probably everyone else who ever had to deal with him/Escort. A lot of people had to leave a lot of money on the table because of him and will never see a dime or product that they paid for. I hope you do refund money to orders because if you don't, you'll be right down there with Sniper X. Justin has been one of the few standup guys in the airsoft world that I've met. He's paid out of pocket for shipping when he sent me a wrong barrel. He has kept me up to date on progress of orders and been honest when things would be late. I once sent my SP M16 to Sniper X for work and didn't get it back for over a year. I in fact forgot I owned it because it was gone so long. I sent queries to OPFORCE and was told they couldn't deal with me unless I put down a deposit. Link to post Share on other sites
Simo_Hayha Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 In the classic world of things, using Sniper X as some kind of "evidence" or reputable source is probably the worst thing you can do. Anything Paul says means exactly squat to me and probably everyone else who ever had to deal with him/Escort. I agree. The biggest problem I can see with these smaller companies is the lack of reputable contacts. Justin sounds like a good guy to deal with, but with all the small-time players being middlemen and disappearing after a while, there's no time to establish a true reputation as a reliable source. Which means people are nervous about spending large quantities of money when they can go to a large retailer and know they're going to get what they pay for. Link to post Share on other sites
frogfish Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 This is one of the biggest reason I left Classic Airsoft and go back to stinky propane. It just isn't worth my time and money. Because of forum arguements? I think he means all the flaky people, when you have a big company there is usually a bit of responsibility to do right by the customer, but when you get down to a smaller operation a lot of time people become flaky and forget that customers, product, and MONEY are left wafting in the breeze. The same thing is present in the gear industry, there are a lot of larger companies that will do right by a customer and make sure everything is good, Tyr for example, then there are small custom shops that will ###### away time and money and half *albatross* a product just because they woke up on the wrong side of the bed. Link to post Share on other sites
DesertFox Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 I highly recommend TNKRIZZO, he was a pleasure to work with and very accommodating and knowledgeable Link to post Share on other sites
crustyflap Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 +1 for TNKRIZZO as well. I know him personally as a former teammate and as a customer of his. He does great work and is one of the very few small business types I know in the airsoft world that I have total confidence in. Link to post Share on other sites
hessu75 Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 Just a side note: People who buy stuff from these kind of sellers, use Paypal and your creditcards. I assume you already use these kind of payment methods. This way you can dispute the payment and get your credit company to claim your money instead of you self. Save a lot of effort and these credit companies have a lot more man power to collect from these small business companies, who seem to give rats *albatross* about customer service and guaranteed quality. In other words, orders are met and no hazzle from these orders. Stock and warehouses are maintained by professionals ( I know what I talking about, been doing warehousing management for over ten years now and still going) and customer service is met promptly and with 24 hour reply window. This kind of service gives the buyers the needed professional output. There are multiple different warehousing and accounting programs for this kind of venture. This is known to all, right? Just have to ask. Product codes are generated and inventory is made on regular basis? High flow through goods are counted and inventory is made much more regurarly? No goods, no sale. Or, custom job is met only if the person who is doing the job is cut for the job at hand. Yes, contracts must be abided and sanctions must be used. That is stated here too. But, why did it go to this, that sanctions must be used? is it just one side, who has breached the contract? I am sorry, if I get a different picture of this thread and think that these mentioned persons are unqualified for this kind business venture, in this kind of magnitude. I do not know the client amount, but from messages read, it is quite a few custom jobs and a lot of money is moving. This should give the key persons some idea, that this should be handled with just the clientele you can handle. Nothing more. This is the baseline. Just my 2 cents. Cheers Link to post Share on other sites
Rob15 Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 There are multiple different warehousing and accounting programs for this kind of venture. This is known to all, right? Just have to ask. Product codes are generated and inventory is made on regular basis? High flow through goods are counted and inventory is made much more regurarly? No goods, no sale. Or, custom job is met only if the person who is doing the job is cut for the job at hand. Yes, contracts must be abided and sanctions must be used. That is stated here too. But, why did it go to this, that sanctions must be used? is it just one side, who has breached the contract? I think you are massivly overestimating the size of these small airsoft manufacturers, warehouse staff? Unlikely, stock room would be a more appropriate term I'd imagine, the only sort of stock control they need on a small scale is a simple spreadsheet logging cost prices for accounting purposes and to do quick physical counts so that only what is ready for sale is sold (unless it is a custom job), having specific software for tracking stock on such a small scale just strikes me of some *suitcase* a management consultant would try and sell to you. I run a small airsoft product manufacturing business myself and I certainly don't have any special software, all I have is a spreadsheet (Openoffice at that, not even Microsoft!) which fits onto 2 A4 pages which logs my stock levels and gets updated as products are made and sold, and for nearly 4 years that has worked fine, I can't recall ever selling something I didn't have and see no need for anything more unless I end up having hundreds of thousands of products in stock at any given time. To me given the figures being posted around it doesn't look like a big business, $6000 is a lot of money for a very small business to lose, but in the grand scheme of airsoft retail it's actually very little, but obviously enough to close down Daytona Gun.... Link to post Share on other sites
Simo_Hayha Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 but obviously enough to close down Daytona Gun.... Maybe not enough to force it to close, but enough to warrant the proprietor to throw in the towel. We really don't know. Link to post Share on other sites
sparrowOPFORCE Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 If anyone would like to see the post that proves the breach of contract by DG you can email me. I dont want to post it here. Yes dealing with DG and his turn around times were way to long and made a few of my customers understandable upset. I just want people to know the truth so please email me if you want to see the thread and other things. Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites
Panzergraf Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 I think most of us are more interested in who will fill his shoes and provide us with similar products than we are in what happened between you two. Link to post Share on other sites
rvlyssup Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 Surprise, surprise... http://www.popularairsoft.com/news/daytona-gb-249-kits-version-2012-photos Link to post Share on other sites
adadqgg Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 PKM version coming soon? Link to post Share on other sites
J.J.Simpson Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 I want that in my tacticool SFAW RPD build... If only the police let me do that Link to post Share on other sites
Gish Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 PKM version coming soon? If It's a 249 mechbox and not an M60 mechbox I bet it could be modded in. Link to post Share on other sites
adadqgg Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 If It's a 249 mechbox and not an M60 mechbox I bet it could be modded in. Well, considering they made one for A&K and CA brand M249; they probably can make a drop-in one for A&K PKM. Link to post Share on other sites
aznriptide859 Posted February 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 Sigh...Justin was trolling us all along lol. Link to post Share on other sites
Horsem4n Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 i knew he couldnt stay away. Link to post Share on other sites
Wingmann Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 If It's a 249 mechbox and not an M60 mechbox I bet it could be modded in. I asked him about the M60 version and it'll be there in the future, given that the M249 kits sell well. Tight economy I guess. Link to post Share on other sites
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