Most Reliable GBBR on the Market Now?

[gijohn2]

The aluminium internals are fine, I think they only become weaker when paired with a steel bolt or stronger recoil spring. The only ware on my internals is on the hammer one of the areas is on the top of the hammer where the bolt slides over (Normally a bearing would be there to prevent this on the steel internals(?) (is that correct hwagan?) second is where the hammer hits the back of the bolt where the loading nozzle attaches to the bolt and its all minor stuff.

 

All the metal fillings are from my old AABB buffer which was ###### so i replaced it with a RS DPM buffer and works a treat

 

[hwagan]

Yep, there's a roller bearing on the G&P steel hammer; Reduces wear as well as making the cycle noticeably quicker and smoother. Definitely a good idea if you want to sharpen it up a bit - And helpfully, King Arms do an ally roller bearing hammer, so it won't eat your other internals;

 

http://www.redwolfairsoft.com/redwolf/airsoft/Accessories_GBB_Other_WA_M4_Parts_King_Arms_Hammer_Set_for_King_Arms_M4_Gas_Blowback.htm

[gijohn2]

Ahhh lovely might have to get my self on of those

[hwagan]

It really is a noticeable difference, you don't get the kind of 'Bump' as the bolt rides over the hammer.

[gijohn2]

the shipping is nearly more then the bloody item, I hate red wolf

[hwagan]

I might know a source of a cheap one in the UK... Lemme make a phone call this evening and I'll drop you a PM.

[gijohn2]

I might know a source of a cheap one in the UK... Lemme make a phone call this evening and I'll drop you a PM.

 

Awesome, thank you muchly!

[P.S.I.]

IMHO... When talking about Out of Box, skirmishable, reliability it's KWA or KJW. Between the two I'd go with the KWA because mags (& parts) are easier to come by.

There' also little to no after market support for KJW but I'm sure there will be a lot of it for the KWA in pretty short order.

[uscmCorps]

All I want for the KWA is ambi-selectors. I run ambi-selectors on my real ARs. Not having them on KWA's forces me to change the way I manipulate my training tool which isn't consistent with my real gun. Oh, and KWA compatible Magpul ASAP plates and BAD levers.

[bankz5152]

This thread just gets better and better really.

 

Im loving the sound of these WOCs

 

Is there anywhere to buy a complete steel trigger set? All ive seen come up is the hammer & sear come up separately.

[ThaFlash]

I have a friend who has been running his stock WOC ever since the WOC first came out. All he did was place an NPAS into it (which isn't necessary any longer if you aren't interested in adjusting FPS). He runs G&P, Bomber and GHK green gas mags. He doesn't run the gun on large ops where it's likely to get really dirty, but at our one day, local games he runs it.

 

I have been using my custom WOC for the same amount of time. I've probably put 2-3k into it, and built a second gun from parts. They are both my most reliable guns and my most accurate guns. I use them regardless of weather and field conditions, but I use GHK CO2 mags. I clean an lube after a particularly dirty, or long event, and I'll use a lightweight gun oil on the metal parts with DOW 55 O-ring Grease on the o-rings.

 

I do work on my WA GBB's a lot, there's always something to do even though I have them dialed in pretty good.

 

But even though I love my WA based guns, and even though I prefer CO2 over GG/Propane, and even though I love the fact that I have a real upper and countless real parts on my guns; I would recommend the KWA. The KWA I have been using, and my teammates have been using, hasn't had a misfire. It kicks harder than my WA GBB with Prime CNC'd steel carrier and RATech aluminum NPAS (almost $400 BCG), and it's stock. The mags don't leak, KWA has parts support everywhere, and the aftermarket will be there, I've heard Guns Modify will come out with 1 piece metal uppers and lowers.

 

When using Bioval .27's, my WA M4's are tack drivers, the KWA is not far behind. The KWA has very good accuracy with heavyweight BB's once you dial in the hop up, and it's plenty consistent too.

 

My next gun, will probably be a KWA M4.

[emp3ror86]

All I want for the KWA is ambi-selectors. I run ambi-selectors on my real ARs. Not having them on KWA's forces me to change the way I manipulate my training tool which isn't consistent with my real gun. Oh, and KWA compatible Magpul ASAP plates and BAD levers.

 

http://www.wgcshop.com/wgc2008/main/product_detail1.php?search_From=searchItem&item=CR-KS21-0001&search=searchItem&rs=crusader&catid=&cat=

 

Works in my KSC. Will work in your KWA.

[bankz5152]

Interesting post Flash.

 

It does seem that everyone is tied between the G&P WOC & the KWA M4. If someone released a black VLTOR reciever for the KWA it would be a much hard choice.

[ThaFlash]

In my opinion, when speaking about GBB M4's; nothing exists other than a custom (usually WOC based) WA M4 and the KWA M4.

[uscmCorps]

http://www.wgcshop.com/wgc2008/main/product_detail1.php?search_From=searchItem&item=CR-KS21-0001&search=searchItem&rs=crusader&catid=&cat=

 

Works in my KSC. Will work in your KWA.

 

My only concern is that the KWAs I have are the US version which are altered in various ways to be ATF acceptible. I'd be worried that the selector is a different spec. Also, I hate BAD Selectors. I had them on my real ARs for a while and they didn't work for me in how I run a gun. I prefer KAC ambis.

[emp3ror86]

I might get the stock KSC ambi one which is copy of the KAC one. I can also measure my receiver or the selector to make sure it will fit into the KWA one. Drop me a PM if interested.

[gijohn2]

Interesting post Flash.

 

It does seem that everyone is tied between the G&P WOC & the KWA M4. If someone released a black VLTOR reciever for the KWA it would be a much hard choice.

 

The KWA may be good over in the US but you need to remember what works well over there is not going to work as well over here due to our climate, the KWA has a steel bolt which will come back to haunt you in the colder weather and im pretty sure KWA dont give a fock about UK customers who need new parts etc

[hitmanNo2]

That said, I've heard they are soon to open a European parts distribution centre.

[bankz5152]

Me and a friend have both been running KWA MP7s for quite a while and ordered a few spares from KWA USA with no troubles at all. + the MP7 is just fantastic so I do trust KWA as a company.

 

Never owned anything G&P before..

[hwagan]

This thread just gets better and better really.

 

Im loving the sound of these WOCs

 

Is there anywhere to buy a complete steel trigger set? All ive seen come up is the hammer & sear come up separately.

 

The steel trigger parts, annoyingly, tend to end up having to be bought separately. G&P do sort of half-complete sets, and then the individual bits to fill them in, and RA-Tech do full setups as far as I'm aware; Generally you'll get the selector/hammer/trigger, and then a separate steel bolt catch, etc etc.

 

Speaking of steel trigger parts, here's the guts of mine after a ridiculous amount of firing cycles (Pardon the rust on the pins/castle nut etc, my bad there. I'll get round to it);

 

 

 

The hammer has no wear I can really distinguish, even on the finish, same with the rest of the insides, except for the bolt catch, which is only just beginning to show the slightest corner of steel under whatever finish is on it.

 

This is my newest BCG, about 5,000 rounds in - The shaving on the side of the nozzle router that meets the gas bucking happens due to the very very slight rotation as the bolt cycles; It wears to a point and then stops. I've heard of metal nozzle guides and the like, but I consider the $35 nozzle an infrequent consumable, same with springs and hop rubbers as with anything (Although, haven't worn a nozzle out yet).

 

 

That also shows the R/S charging handle, which has been ground down and attacked to fit - There's a guide in the gas section on doing it, which you'll need, because I always forget to mention that G&P charging handles are the only bad part out of the box, in that they are made of gently compressed talcum powder. The ones I've seen have held up from anywhere between 5-25 games or so, but an R/S one is £25-30 from MidwayUK.

 

I think WOC's are a good contender for a few reasons, but I'd be just as happy seeing someone with a KWA or a KJW, it just makes the game so much more fun and takes out half the ######. If you've only got 40 rounds, there's no room for hosing. They run better on heavier ammo, leading to people feeling hits better whilst still within limits. Any GBBR forces the user to think a lot more about picking shots, allows full auto but doesn't encourage it, and makes the game sound a hell of a lot better. Which is all awesome.

 

 

 

 

 

*edit* My browser didn't come up with the 'new replies have been added'... Bah. All this thread is doing is making me wonder if I have room for a KWA as well as my WOC one day...

[bankz5152]

Thats rather shocking. No damage at all.

 

I need a list of things to install!

 

RS Cocking lever thats easy enough, ive seen the guide to pretty simply done.

Steel Trigger Set - As and when its needed.

 

Standard Hop unit? Does this need upgrading/replacing

 

Ive read posts of a few people talking of buffer springs - Could anyone speak more on this? Does the stock one not do the job? And how is it tuned?

 

 

Hwagan -

Personally not a fan of clipped barrels mainly because it doesnt really limit FPS. While a clipped barrel rifle may read 340fps or so it will still fluctuate. I mean you could stick in a hot mag and boost to 370 or even CO2 mags and hit 400 possibly. Using an NPAS limits this regardless putting a standard mag through or a CO2 mag would still give a solid fps of about 340 - 350fps. Though would prefer a solid one...

[Katotaka]

How is range and consistency/precision on the KWA's?

 

Yeah, I did that fix for a while, but the GunsModify set gives you a longer buffer (that'll solve the issue without adding anything custom), and a bolt that's more realistic (mock pin), locks much better, gives slightly better recoil, and will last forever, as well as the better cocker set.

 

And the Gen2 mags use a similar design to the VN styles ones (the ones I use) right? If so, they must be pretty good.

 

 

Fox.

 

Wow, the post is getting hot! 2 new pages since yesterday!

 

 

...... and yeah, I'm thinking of getting the GunsModify BCG too, got hold a set on my hands once, the bolt carrier is very nicely done and the aluminum cocker is much lighter than the original one, but you know... my wallet doesn't let me

 

 

About the gen 2 mags, take a look at the bottom pic:

http://www.wgcshop.com/WGC_Shop/images/we_gmag_m4ob2_tan_l.jpg

 

2-piece tank again but with smaller standard o-ring seal and much bigger tank space, without walls inside but just one long screw, efficiency is much greater and seems won't leak ( hopefully , while still easier to fix )

[rvlyssup]

@ hwagan, leave the rusty bits...Just drop some gun oil on the parts and wipe them off. Besides, it adds character to your rifle.

 

I pretty much agree with most assessments on here, except of course for the seemingly constant WE bashing of its internals which quite frankly, does holds up fairly well. The OB platform is indeed an improvement.

 

But, I'll respectfully digress on that discussion.

 

A MagPul Edition KWA is my next M4 GBBR. It will be very exciting to see aftermarket support for that platform. Its the next evolution and things are just going to get better!

[rvlyssup]

Sorry folks for another double post...annoying as hell!

[hwagan]

Thats rather shocking. No damage at all.

 

I need a list of things to install!

 

RS Cocking lever thats easy enough, ive seen the guide to pretty simply done.

Steel Trigger Set - As and when its needed.

 

Standard Hop unit? Does this need upgrading/replacing

 

Ive read posts of a few people talking of buffer springs - Could anyone speak more on this? Does the stock one not do the job? And how is it tuned?

 

 

Hwagan -

Personally not a fan of clipped barrels mainly because it doesnt really limit FPS. While a clipped barrel rifle may read 340fps or so it will still fluctuate. I mean you could stick in a hot mag and boost to 370 or even CO2 mags and hit 400 possibly. Using an NPAS limits this regardless putting a standard mag through or a CO2 mag would still give a solid fps of about 340 - 350fps. Though would prefer a solid one...

 

When it comes to the Hopup unit, it seems the RA-Tech arm is a little stiffer, and therefore seems to apply a bit more hop out the box. When I had my 2nd upper, all I did was add a very slightly stiffer spring from a disposable lighter in place of the G&P one, and that sent a .3 much better. I'd say the RA-Tech chamber is a good idea, but not necessary. The rubber on the other hand, I'd say is a really worthwhile replacement.

 

As for the clipped barrel, that's entirely fair enough. I made the mistake of buying the 5KU complete NPAS nozzle, which just didn't agree with the G&P carrier - It seems if you just purchase the valve you'll have a lot more luck. Mine is clipped to the point that whilst on a cold day it'll only put out 280 (Albeit still with an excellent range), a deliberately warmed mag on a warm day still only just pokes 355 now and then. When I'm a bit better off financially, I may well end up going the route of the NPAS valve, especially if G&P get off their arses and start making Co2 mags. Also, Bromley isn't far from me, and I'm pretty sure we've got a couple of mutual friends on FB as it goes - If you ever need a hand with any of it or wanna have a crack on mine before you buy one, more than welcome as long as you've got somewhere to do so, I just moved into a flat... Bah.

 

@ hwagan, leave the rusty bits...Just drop some gun oil on the parts and wipe them off. Besides, it adds character to your rifle.

 

I pretty much agree with most assessments on here, except of course for the seemingly constant WE bashing of its internals which quite frankly, does holds up fairly well. The OB platform is indeed an improvement.

 

But, I'll respectfully digress on that discussion.

 

A MagPul Edition KWA is my next M4 GBBR. It will be very exciting to see aftermarket support for that platform. Its the next evolution and things are just going to get better!

 

 

No WE bashing from me They're as valid a part of the market as any of the others, although I'd say the old adage of you get what you pay for applies; They're cheaper to buy and maintain, but I don't think it's totally unfair the parts aren't quite as tough as some of the higher end models. Plus, full credit to them for offering more than the usual M4's and what few other models manufacturers produce.

 

As for the rust, I kinda like it - All the wear on the outside is totally natural, and it's starting to look nicely beat up... I might try and take some of the orange out of the rust a bit as it's quite offensive coloured at the moment, but I agree a bit of rust adds character... Just maybe a bit too much on mine

 

Should also know the pictures were taken before the clean - I should probably have taken them after, but you get the gist.