cazboab Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 The VCRA is a different mater entirely, to take it back to your car concept, when you re-spray a car is that manufacturing? No it isn't. "manufacturing a RIF" is just a term that can be used on a charge sheet, the same as "driving without due care and attention" which is what you'd be charged with for ghost riding, even though you're not actually driving the car. Link to post Share on other sites
Baddbaz Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 Manufacturing is a term used to describe any components put together to end up with an end product . Hence its use in the vcra . You are putting parts together to make a product which will be illegal if you have no defence . That is why the word manufacture is used . Not assemble . Spraying a car is not manufacturing because you are not assembling the actual car you are mearly changing its appearance / colour . Manufacturing is clearly defined in all its forms if you want to google its definitions Link to post Share on other sites
spetsnazdave87 Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 If prisoners were made to read this thread, Skarclaw would complain it was cruel and unusual punishment. I'm out. Link to post Share on other sites
cazboab Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 Spraying a car is not manufacturing because you are not assembling the actual car you are mearly changing its appearance / colour .And yet Spraying a gun IS manufacture under the VCRA, Proving that using the VCRA as an example of anything but terrible legislation is a bad idea. The standalone definition of one word has very little to do with the implications of a statement. Lets take it back to the LCT kits, If I put one together, is that in common language manufacturing, or assembling? under anything but the VCRA, its assembling. If I put an airfix model kit together, is that manufacturing an airfix kit? If I put together a lego kit would I say it was manufactured in the UK? BO do not "manufacture" they "assemble" if you can't understand how that is different I'm not sure there's any way I can rephrase this for you. Link to post Share on other sites
spetsnazdave87 Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 I'd leave it Caz, what we have here is a failure to communicate... Link to post Share on other sites
jal3 Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 It's not really an opinion... some line of Prada used to be able to claim they were made in Italy because while many parts were made in China, they got away with it by having the assembly part to be in Italy, that has all changed now, hence why "Made in China" tags can be found on genuine high end fashion. Which is why calling this to be "Made is France" is factually wrong... so.. no, I won't "get out", please don't beat me up with your toughness. I described the whole process in relation to the price. Whatever word you put on top of that is irrelevant. When you quote the whole process and then say "no it's not made in EU" then you're refuting the process i stated, not the use of the word. If you wanted to refute my idea of how to use the word "made", say something along the lines of "You can't call that made in EU". There's a vast difference. Then i could at least have ignored you because i would have known it was just semantics. When you waste my time by tricking me (or at least make me do an effort to verify it) into thinking BO isn't located in France, something very relevant for the price, i get annoyed. Link to post Share on other sites
renegadecow Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 LET YOUR WALLETS DO THE TALKING If you can afford it without so much as batting an eyelash, good for you. How you spend your money is your business and your business alone, no matter how blatantly you're being robbed by mislabeled goods and nothing's stopping the companies that are selling it from making a profit. I suppose paying all that much more justifies deluding ones self that the goods are more valuable than they really are. Link to post Share on other sites
Baddbaz Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 Welcome to the real world . . How much profit do to think was made on the clothes you are wearing . Did they cost half the amount you paid for them to produce or less , but you happily paid a retail price for them knowing that , it costs people's labour , shop rent, rates , transport, wages for the guy that sold them to you . Etc + profit for the retailer . Could you make them yourself ,? Probably , did you ? Probably not . You paid what you thought was the going rate for them Link to post Share on other sites
Apex Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 Stop trolling. Link to post Share on other sites
ollie_ty Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 You paid what you thought was the going rate for them Exactly, we know what the 'going rate' should be for this product, ie; Way less than what they're asking. Link to post Share on other sites
Inq Eisenhorn Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 I can't believe this topic has gone to 6 pages on the use of the word 'manufacture'. Why some people feel so negatively about it is beyond me. In Baddbaz's defence this kind of thing goes on EVERYWHERE. When I bought my Inokatsu SOPMOD 2011, I had no idea it wasn't made by Inokatsu and that (supposedly) an unknown company (to me) Taiwan Deer were the makers. Did I feel 'lied' to, or cheated? Not really, I didn't give it a second thought. I love the gun, and ultimately where it was made doesn't change the product I bought. Should I have demanded it was cheaper because Inokatsu lied to me, or mislead me? IMHO, no, the price I paid was the asking price for this item, take it or leave it. The 'situation' with BO is the same, here's the price, here's the product. Either you want it or you don't. If you do, you'll overlook the wonky advertising and 'misleading' information, if not you'll likely make a big deal about it to justify to yourself why you're passing up a limited edition item. Ultimately the decision rests with the individual purchaser, 6 pages of trying to convince each other that the other sides stance is wrong is pretty pointless, and to be honest, some of the arguments for and against are plain ridiculous. Link to post Share on other sites
Baddbaz Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 And yet Spraying a gun IS manufacture under the VCRA, Proving that using the VCRA as an example of anything but terrible legislation is a bad idea. The standalone definition of one word has very little to do with the implications of a statement. Lets take it back to the LCT kits, If I put one together, is that in common language manufacturing, or assembling? under anything but the VCRA, its assembling. If I put an airfix model kit together, is that manufacturing an airfix kit? If I put together a lego kit would I say it was manufactured in the UK? BO do not "manufacture" they "assemble" if you can't understand how that is different I'm not sure there's any way I can rephrase this for you. The difference with the wording in the vcra is easy to understand because you are changing a legal product( if ) into an illegal one as an end product( rif ) by changing its colour . It is not illegal to change a cars colour by painting it whereas in the case of a two tone it is . Manufacturing being defined by the finished end product . As for Lego etc it is a singular product made by one company / factory not an amalgamation of various products made by different company's / factory's so assembled is the correct term for Lego . With bo it is several company's products being put together by a paid labour force to gain an end product to sell . So its correct terminology would be manufacturing a product for sale . If it is put together in France as a final end product for sale, it will be manufactured in France . If its assembled in china etc for them that would be different as place of manufacture is where it becomes its end product .If it is put together in France the price hike is understandable due to the higher costs involved with labour , rents , rates etc that's why most company's have their goods assembled in china , India , tawain etc where labour charges etc are much cheaper . Maybe this thread should be linked to the why are there not many British manufacturers in Airsoft thread . As it proves the fact that people want a cheap end product rather than pay more for a uk eu manufactured product . Regardless of its quality control and testing. .. Link to post Share on other sites
spetsnazdave87 Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 . As it proves the fact that people want a cheap end product rather than pay more for a uk eu manufactured product . Regardless of its quality control and testing. .. Not really, if you actually read the majority of what other people are saying that has absolutely nothing to do with it. Link to post Share on other sites
Inq Eisenhorn Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 NO, for the love of sweet baby Jesus, don't dare link this to that thread. So far the other thread has been informative.....this, not so much!!! Link to post Share on other sites
Baddbaz Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 NO, for the love of sweet baby Jesus, don't dare link this ###### to that thread. So far the other thread has been informative.....this, not so much!!!Lmao , very true Link to post Share on other sites
cazboab Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 Well there is that, and the fact that the other thread about how there are no manufacturers in the UK is based on a flawed premiss combined with baddbaz's new definition of manufacture, since almost every single shop in the country is a manufacturer now. I put a pepsi lid on a coke bottle. I manufactured a bottle. Yay me. Link to post Share on other sites
spetsnazdave87 Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 I manufactured my Diemaco C8... Link to post Share on other sites
Baddbaz Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 Try looking up the definition of manufacture before commenting . Its there in black and white . What makes me laugh is the fact that half the people on this thread have never seen this gun in the flesh let alone fired one .. If its such a pos why are all the reputable retailers buying them in to sell , also a few have already sold out on this gun . Must be a truly terrible gun for that to have happened ? Bit odd that as according to certain people in this thread there isn't a market for guns like this one ...or god forbid they actually stopped looking at pictures and other people's opinions and went to a shop and test fired one and judged it in the flesh before buying it .. Link to post Share on other sites
intinerious Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 If its such a pos why are all the reputable retailers buying them in to sell , also a few have already sold out on this gun . Must be a truly terrible gun for that to have happened ? Bit odd that as according to certain people in this thread there isn't a market for guns like this one ...or god forbid they actually stopped looking at pictures and other people's opinions and went to a shop and test fired one and judged it in the flesh before buying it .. 'Reputable' retailers still sell PTWs, along with a lot of crappy ARES guns...... Link to post Share on other sites
Baddbaz Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 Are ptw and ares guns tested and checked for qc and faults individually by the guy who then puts his name to the certificate before it arrives at the retailers ? As far as I am aware only real sword do this . And their qc is as good as it gets Link to post Share on other sites
intinerious Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 Are ptw and ares guns tested and checked for qc and faults individually by the guy who then puts his name to the certificate before it arrives at the retailers ? As far as I am aware only real sword do this . And their qc is as good as it gets The post was to point out that just because a 'reputable' retailer sells something doesn't mean it's not a POS. And as far as I understand ARES do 'QC' their guns with a label 'certification' by 'individuals'. Systema probably do the same for full built PTWs as well; but what would I know, I don't spend money on stuff like that Link to post Share on other sites
Inq Eisenhorn Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 The post was to point out that just because a 'reputable' retailer sells something doesn't mean it's not a POS. And as far as I understand ARES do 'QC' their guns with a label 'certification' by 'individuals'. Systema probably do the same for full built PTWs as well; but what would I know, I don't spend money on stuff like that Well if you don't spend money 'on stuff like that', you're not the target market, and how do you justify your opinion? I mean, you've already written the product off, so anything you say or think is bound to be negative. What I don't get, is how the PTW is suddenly a POS? Be cause you can't / won't afford it? That hardly qualifies the product as a POS. I can't afford a Bentley, I doubt you'd hear many label it as therefore being *suitcase*. Link to post Share on other sites
cazboab Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 If its such a pos why are all the reputable retailers buying them in to sell , also a few have already sold out on this gun . Must be a truly terrible gun for that to have happened ? I don't believe anyone ever said it was a POS. Overpriced, pointlessly bored up, slightly dishonest and possibly the wrong finish for a Russian AKM/ wrong markings for a romanian AKM etc, but not a terrible gun. We have Ares for terrible guns anyway, there's just not a gap in the market there. Well the 416 probably counts as terrible in a lot of folks books(and mine, even if it is written in crayon) since the entire lower is wrong, but the AK is a great looking gun, Its just not really "worth" 6 ton. Link to post Share on other sites
Baddbaz Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 I agree with inq eisenhorn . My sentiments exactly . And for your information ares don't certificate their guns as tested individually . I own 4 of them . And yes the motors are rubbish ( a big ares fault ) but the rest of it has worked flawlessly on the ares models , the umarex hk rebrand, g36 . Not as much Link to post Share on other sites
intinerious Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 Well if you don't spend money 'on stuff like that', you're not the target market, and how do you justify your opinion? I mean, you've already written the product off, so anything you say or think is bound to be negative. What I don't get, is how the PTW is suddenly a POS? Be cause you can't / won't afford it? That hardly qualifies the product as a POS. I can't afford a Bentley, I doubt you'd hear many label it as therefore being *suitcase*. Perhaps because there's multitudes of reports from close friends, and on forums that they break easily, are designed with weak/poor materials, etc? Just because I don't spend my money on it (or use it) based on the many reports I've read/heard doesn't mean my opinion that the product is is not justified. Please refrain from implying things that I've never insinuated because frankly, it's irritating. In regards to the ARES thing, apologies because I can't seem to find a picture of the label they tag on their new in box AEGs but IIRC they have a line where it says "tested/checked by _____". That would imply that they do check each rifle individually. If I'm wrong then I retract my statements about ARES checking their guns individually above Link to post Share on other sites
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