gun control

[Skarclaw]

If I was prez:

 

- close gunshow loophole straight up. how is this even a real thing? one day some 9/11 "truthers" are gonna go mental in a small town with a crate of sks rifles. asda promise

- licensing system. doesn't violate any more rights then a driving license imo. nothing larger then break action shotgun or .22 until you are 18.

- stop faffing around with "assault weapon" cause its mostly cosmetic as far as I can tell. maybe a moderate tax on magazines bigger then 15 rounds

[hitmanNo2]

I think magazine capacity restriction is pretty pointless really.  Sure, having 100 rounds in drum will do a lot of damage, but someone, determined, trained, and with a premeditated plan armed with something limited to even five rounds will do a lot of damage.

 

As you say, the whole "high capacity" i.e. standard capacity is just one of those nonsense things r.e. assault weapons that the dimwit anti gun crowd have stuck in their head.

[Powerslave]

well, with the patriot act and other national defense bills, i am at the mercy of my government. they can detain me for as long as they want under the pretense that i am a terrorist. but other than that, my government has to go through a system of check and balances to convict me of any wrongdoing in order to take things away, jail or otherwise kill me. so the the most part, no, i am not at the mercy of my government. but i am at the mercy of stupid people and bureaucrats

 

I find it interesting that Americans consider themselves to live in the land of the free but America has a quarter of the world's prisoner population. Custodial sentences are extremely common even for non crimes like drug possession.

 

Even more horrifying is that organisations like the dea lobby lawmakers in order to protect their jobs. Very easy to corrupt system imho.

 

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

 

 

[Horsem4n]

If I was prez:

 

- close gunshow loophole straight up. how is this even a real thing? one day some 9/11 "truthers" are gonna go mental in a small town with a crate of sks rifles. asda promise

- licensing system. doesn't violate any more rights then a driving license imo. nothing larger then break action shotgun or .22 until you are 18.

- stop faffing around with "assault weapon" cause its mostly cosmetic as far as I can tell. maybe a moderate tax on magazines bigger then 15 rounds

there is no gun show loophole. its a bureaucratic term that came from the same vein as "assault weapon". like i said before, 50-75% of vendors at gun shows are FFL holders that need to perform background checks regardless. criminals do not buy guns at gun shows in any large capacity. most buy their guns from corrupt shops and through straw purchasing. gun shows are not a problem.

 

Awesome statement. Education is vastly overrated, real waste of money. You just don't need it if you're  poor. It's just tyrannical for governments to insist you educate your children. How dare they!

Seriously, have I missed a smiley face?

yes, you can see it that way. but with less taxes more people can afford to buy education for their children. not to mention it being possible for charitable people to provide education. im just saying it doesn't have to be government controlled.

 

I find it interesting that Americans consider themselves to live in the land of the free but America has a quarter of the world's prisoner population. Custodial sentences are extremely common even for non crimes like drug possession.

 

Even more horrifying is that organisations like the dea lobby lawmakers in order to protect their jobs. Very easy to corrupt system imho.

 

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

this is what i want to fix. as i libertarian, i do not believe drugs should be illegal or controlled substances more so than cigarets and alcohol already are. beyond that, people who fail to pay parking tickets and stuff like that also do not need to be punished with jail time. most of the people in jail in this country are for those simple things.

[Skarclaw]

could I, theoretically, go to a gun show and buy a gun without any paperwork? 

 

edit: the nra really are a bunch of twats. shame on anbody who gives them money. SHAME!!!!!

[Horsem4n]

its not theoretical, yes you can. usually, there are a good about of private sellers depending how the size of the event. but there is a police presence at all events and you still have to follow state regulations on who can own a gun by checking permits and IDs, but beyond that, the seller isn't obligated to do anything else unless he's an FFL holder.

 

its just another example of trying to solve a problem that nobody would really call a "problem" had they known the scope of how criminals actually acquire guns.

 

just because you can go to a gun show to pick up a gun with the flash of an ID does not mean criminals actually do so in any significant capacity. the "gun show loophole" is literally an assumption. there is absolutely no evidence that suggest even 5% of criminals get their guns that way.

[my_plague_666]

 

this is what i want to fix. as i libertarian, i do not believe drugs should be illegal or controlled substances more so than cigarets and alcohol already are. beyond that, people who fail to pay parking tickets and stuff like that also do not need to be punished with jail time. most of the people in jail in this country are for those simple things.

 

while i consider myself to be pretty liberal and accepting with regards to a lot of drugs i do think there's a very good reason some of them are controlled. take psychedelics like acid for example, if used responsibly they can be a really positive, eye opening experience... act irresponsibly with it and you can be in for a very long and very unpleasant ride. now look at how much alchohol is abused (especially in this country). do you really think most of the general public can be trusted to act responsibly with substances as powerful as LSD and 2C's? dunno about how it is in the states but it's a pretty common scene here to have a 16/17 year old showing off at a party drinking neat vodka from the bottle until he/she throws up and passes out. now imagine little timmy decides to show everyone how hardcore he is by eating 10 tabs of acid, the odds of this going well are pretty slim.

 

i think an ideal system would have various drugs prescribed after the person has undergone mental evaluation and education of the drug. however this doesn't seem like a realistic idea IMO

[Danke]

i think an ideal system would have various drugs prescribed after the person has undergone mental evaluation and education of the drug. however this doesn't seem like a realistic idea IMO

You'd need some sort of socialized medicine to make that work.

[Horsem4n]

in this country, and id imagine it'd be the same over there, you can easily pick up any drug you want from the shady guy at the corner drug store. just because they'd be legal doesn't mean that little Timmy will feel any cooler by ODing in front of a crowed. id think they'd be less prone to doing so just because they are now uncool for being legal.

[FireKnife]

There's no point in trying to argue with UK peeps as my follow countrymen have become too pathetic. Far too much victim mentality and reliance on the State to solve all problems and provide so called "protection". True protection is what the individual can provide for themselves as the individual is the first responder in any situation. The State is nothing more than a second responder to the aftermath.

 

While I agree this does mean that sadly chavs and other lowlifes would be allowed the same access to firearms due to the mentality that this country has.

 

At the end of the day as much as it may work, we have screwed ourselves into a situaton where really whatever response we go for as a country is horribly flawed, sad really isn't it.

 

'FireKnife'

[Harmless]

 

yes, you can see it that way. but with less taxes more people can afford to buy education for their children. not to mention it being possible for charitable people to provide education. im just saying it doesn't have to be government controlled.

 

Do you really think that if you paid NO tax, it would enable you to afford to send a child to school, never mind more than one. If you can't, do you really want to rely on the charity of others? How'd you like your only opportunity to educate your child left to organisations with a specific agenda. In fact I love the idea that if this did happen, Saudia Arabia/China/any organisation with long term strategic ambitions  could flood the US with the capability to affect the population. OK paranoid fantasizing, but the US government is probably the least malevolent organisation to control education.

[my_plague_666]

in this country, and id imagine it'd be the same over there, you can easily pick up any drug you want from the shady guy at the corner drug store. just because they'd be legal doesn't mean that little Timmy will feel any cooler by ODing in front of a crowed. id think they'd be less prone to doing so just because they are now uncool for being legal.

 

it's not overdose and death i'm concerned about (well it is, but that doesn't apply to many psychedelics like i'd been talking about so that's another point), being stupid with stuff like acid can put your head in some really, really nasty places and you might not get out of it fully until a few days later (could be longer depending on quite how much you've overdone it). nasty trips can potentially seriously scar you mentally. plus the sheer duration of it increases the odds of them doing something stupid.

 

i completely disagree with your last point though! how many 16 year olds know how to get alcohol? all of them! get an older friend/sibling to walk into a supermarket and buy it for you, simple! now, how many 16 year olds know an acid dealer? comparatively probably not many. you have to think, drugs aren't as widely/openly accessible as alcohol, fewer people are exposed to them.

this is part of my reason i think cannabis should be legal. People say it's a 'gateway drug' and fair play, i suppose it is... but only because it's illegality causes people to get involved with the illegal drug trade. i'd guess that the majority of people who have done 'hard drugs' started off with weed, then one day they were picking up and got offered some other wares. so if what is without a doubt one of the most casual and widespread illegal drugs in the world was sold in licensed shops then all those people would be kept well away from dealers selling harder stuff and thus wouldn't even have the first idea where to acquire such substances.

[Skarclaw]

its not theoretical, yes you can. usually, there are a good about of private sellers depending how the size of the event. but there is a police presence at all events and you still have to follow state regulations on who can own a gun by checking permits and IDs, but beyond that, the seller isn't obligated to do anything else unless he's an FFL holder.

 

its just another example of trying to solve a problem that nobody would really call a "problem" had they known the scope of how criminals actually acquire guns.

 

just because you can go to a gun show to pick up a gun with the flash of an ID does not mean criminals actually do so in any significant capacity. the "gun show loophole" is literally an assumption. there is absolutely no evidence that suggest even 5% of criminals get their guns that way.

 

I'll rephrase - any way of purchasing a firearm without informing local police authority or similar should be stopped. I honestly think that one day some alex jones inspired nutjob is gonna kick off and judging by some of the forums I've read (admitally pretty "anti ZOG" types) I don't think that is too crazy. I even saw a video with some guy suggesting the SKS was the ideal rifle for outfitting a "company"!

 

the problem with comparing guns and drugs (as a gun owning drug user) is that I can't use the drugs to coerce someone in the same way I could with a gun. If we are talking about liberty then this has to be in mind

[Horsem4n]

its funny that you think the "alex jones type" would go postal. every person over here that has commuted a mass murder or tried (at least in the last 50 years) has always been a democrat or a child of a democratic home and has been on psychotropic drugs.

[AceOfSkulls]

Is that sarcasm / tounge in cheek, or a serious comment?

[Horsem4n]

its a serious comment. im not saying that democrats should be the ones to be watched, im just saying that conservatives aren't the ones causing this problem.

 

its just an eery fact. every mass shooting in the US has been cause by a person with leftist political beliefs. im not one to blame it on the drugs, but being that its an imprecise science that takes a bit of trial and error to find the right drug for your individual depression, some things can go wrong.

[Danke]

Every mass shooting?

[Horsem4n]

yes, as far as i know.

 

EDIT:

 

i tried a little fact checking and came across alot of evidence to say otherwise. so before you guys call me out on it, i will say that i was wrong. 

 

as far as the largest recent ones, there is no substancial evidence that suggest they were actually democrats. and then i found lots of examples of horrible hate crimes that reminded me that everyone sucks equally

[paranoiddroid]

Late thread to bring back but the whole drivers license argument irritates me. It would hold water only if all states were forced to accept it. I have a nevada license but cant carry or buy a gun in Il but Il have to accept my driving license marriage license pilots license and many others due to the 'full faith and credit' rules so why not guns.

 

Same in the uk why can I own a pistol in Northern Ireland and keep it at home and even own a weapon for personal defense but am barred from carrying it on the mainland. Both areas controlled by uk law both in the uk yet rights aren't equal.

 

If all states accepted the license then the argument that even ownership should be licensed would hold more water.

[Mazuran]

Same in the uk why can I own a pistol in Northern Ireland and keep it at home and even own a weapon for personal defense but am barred from carrying it on the mainland. Both areas controlled by uk law both in the uk yet rights aren't equal.

 

History is to blame for this one. RUC/Undercover agents/Informants etc had a habit of being assassinated or attacked, and this allowance was an attempt to keep them safe®.

Be interested to know if it actually changed anything, or if the aforementioned groups of people were the ones to made the most use of it.

[Skarclaw]

yes, as far as i know.

 

EDIT:

 

i tried a little fact checking and came across alot of evidence to say otherwise. so before you guys call me out on it, i will say that i was wrong. 

 

as far as the largest recent ones, there is no substancial evidence that suggest they were actually democrats. and then i found lots of examples of horrible hate crimes that reminded me that everyone sucks equally

 

 

this is a bit late but allow to explain myself. I would agree that the drug thing is probably correct - these anti depressants can make people come down pretty hard and increase suicidal tendencies. Needs to be looked at way more but won't cause of $$$

 

and yes to clarify my comment - you have conceded that you were wrong re: democrats however yeah I do think that terrorists attacks in the next few years will either be islamic or hardline conservative types worried about the ZOG. Timothey McVeigh and tings...

 

My proposal for gun law: only women should be allowed to carry guns in public

[Horsem4n]

lol, while that was a joke, it still wouldn't be the best idea. as it would still leave me (or even womanly men like my brother) without sufficient defense against other men who don't follow the law and carry guns anyway.

 

i am afraid that conservatives of other faiths (like christianity) will resort to violent measures, but the faith isn't like islam. there is no justification in christianity that we understand any longer that condones violent action against other peoples. islam justifies it by saying that all people not of their faith are not innocent. while the christian faith teaches compassion for people of other beliefs. hard core islamists are about prosecuting blasphemy while christians are about hating the sin and not the sinner.

 

but i know its possible for christians to turn that way as we used to be much more violent during the middle ages.

 

of the last 20 years, the only consistent thing between all of the worst mass killings is that the person who committed them were either terrorists or showed signs of mental instability.

and as for a random morbid fact, studies suggest that upwards of 4% of people on this planet are sociopaths.

[Mike_West]

i am afraid that conservatives of other faiths (like christianity) will resort to violent measures, but the faith isn't like islam. there is no justification in christianity that we understand any longer that condones violent action against other peoples. islam justifies it by saying that all people not of their faith are not innocent. while the christian faith teaches compassion for people of other beliefs. hard core islamists are about prosecuting blasphemy while christians are about hating the sin and not the sinner.

Look at the WBC and other US-specific Christian kooks, for example Timothy McVeigh (registered Republican, by the way) or guys who shot abortion doctors and bombed abortion clinics. Some Christians are oblivious to the teachings of "hating the sin and not the sinner", and same rings true over here.

 

Also, what you said about spree killers voting Democrats earlier is BS. Mostly because your typical American Democrat is deathly afraid of guns and wouldn't even attempt getting one. I did some research and found pretty solid information proving otherwise. Jared Lee Loughner? Republican, from a firmly Republican state. Adam Lanza? Son of a right-wing survivalist whacko. Timothy McVeigh (bomber, not shooter, but still bat *suitcase* insane)? Registered Republican. Ted Kaczynski (another bomber)? Right-wing extremist.

[Horsem4n]

Also, what you said about spree killers voting Democrats earlier is BS. Mostly because your typical American Democrat is deathly afraid of guns and wouldn't even attempt getting one. I did some research and found pretty solid information proving otherwise. Jared Lee Loughner? Republican, from a firmly Republican state. Adam Lanza? Son of a right-wing survivalist whacko. Timothy McVeigh (bomber, not shooter, but still bat *suitcase* insane)? Registered Republican. Ted Kaczynski (another bomber)? Right-wing extremist.

i already corrected myself on that one. check post #43.

[Skarclaw]

Look at the WBC and other US-specific Christian kooks, for example Timothy McVeigh (registered Republican, by the way) or guys who shot abortion doctors and bombed abortion clinics. Some Christians are oblivious to the teachings of "hating the sin and not the sinner", and same rings true over here.

 

Also, what you said about spree killers voting Democrats earlier is BS. Mostly because your typical American Democrat is deathly afraid of guns and wouldn't even attempt getting one. I did some research and found pretty solid information proving otherwise. Jared Lee Loughner? Republican, from a firmly Republican state. Adam Lanza? Son of a right-wing survivalist whacko. Timothy McVeigh (bomber, not shooter, but still bat *suitcase* insane)? Registered Republican. Ted Kaczynski (another bomber)? Right-wing extremist.

 

unabomber was an primivist anarchistic who freaked out about computers also industry destroying a beauty spot. yes he was nuts but as they say the only book in his cabin was by al gore...