rex feral Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 mine is working fine on green with hfc mags,but behaving badly on the ksc ones!!(for every bb going down range five go out the side) the stock has some issues but it really is an improvement on the m11 slither and the kwc mini uzi folding stock.(it locks in place open/closed)it needs some work to take up the slack/looseness,extended it is just the right length. all in all i think this is a better weapon/better value than any m11. (looks great with the silencer attached too!!) Link to post Share on other sites
Denihilator Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 Crenna, as T77 has foregrip extension, which makes it much longer than M11A1, I wonder how long is the inner barrel? Link to post Share on other sites
Ultomato Posted March 14, 2006 Report Share Posted March 14, 2006 Is this gun accurate? Is it better than the kwa mac 11? Link to post Share on other sites
Death By Cadbury Posted March 14, 2006 Report Share Posted March 14, 2006 I got a PM requesting an update on the poorly advertist M11 I bought. It was returned but I have not yet gotten my refund, due to current paypal issues. Scott acknowledged he got it back though, and wrote saying how he was sorry for being "fooled" by the "high quality" plastic. I should have the refund in a few days though. Link to post Share on other sites
eviltinky Posted March 14, 2006 Report Share Posted March 14, 2006 I got a PM requesting an update on the poorly advertist M11 I bought. It was returned but I have not yet gotten my refund, due to current paypal issues. Scott acknowledged he got it back though, and wrote saying how he was sorry for being "fooled" by the "high quality" plastic. I should have the refund in a few days though. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I don't buy that Scott was fooled - he was trying to fool you. He sells hundreds of airsoft stuff for a living so there's no excuse. You did the right thing and returned it. Lastly, he should correct his M11A1 product description on the website. Link to post Share on other sites
Sokoso Posted March 14, 2006 Report Share Posted March 14, 2006 On the HFC t77, does the charging handle on the top cycle back and forth like the ksc m11? Link to post Share on other sites
BigAl Posted March 14, 2006 Report Share Posted March 14, 2006 Yes, it is basically a stretched MAC,so the cocking handle does recipricate with the bolt. Link to post Share on other sites
Death By Cadbury Posted March 14, 2006 Report Share Posted March 14, 2006 ...and the length of the barrel should be increased by the same length as the stretching of the front end, I would think. Link to post Share on other sites
Death By Cadbury Posted March 16, 2006 Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 Scott has magically stopped responding to emails.... sorry I realize this has nothing to do with the thread but im beginning to wonder if speedytoys isnt trying to pull a fast one. Link to post Share on other sites
DarkLite Posted March 16, 2006 Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 Certainly sounds like it. Link to post Share on other sites
Utty Posted March 16, 2006 Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 mine is working fine on green with hfc mags,but *snip!* <{POST_SNAPBACK}> So did the original all-plastic KSC - the bolt only develops hairline cracks after several thousand rounds fired. Link to post Share on other sites
Death By Cadbury Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 then BOOM! its comparable to a hand grenade going off in your hand. You'll be lucky to have any finger stumps left. seriously. Link to post Share on other sites
Utty Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 Yeah, I saw a guy throw himself on a KSC M11 once, to save his comrades.. not pretty. Brave ######. Link to post Share on other sites
Denihilator Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 The use of plastic bolt might be a reason why T77 shoots way over 1J. The bolt is very lightweight. Speaking of KSC M11, it actually doesn't have all-plastic bolt, the rear part (with a hook) of the bolt is made of steal which is pretty heavy. On the other side, magnesium bolt has both parts made from the same material. If you compare their weights, you get almost the same number: about 70 grams. I combined magnesium rear with plastic front and was able to shoot over 1J as well. But I stick with all-magnesium bolt cos it's more durable and the weight is better distributed. Now imagine T77 with all-steal bolt...the power would decrease a lot. Link to post Share on other sites
Utty Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 Please explain why a light-weight bolt results in higher fps? Link to post Share on other sites
Holmes Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 Please explain why a light-weight bolt results in higher fps? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I can! It doesn't. Link to post Share on other sites
DarkLite Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 I think he might have gotten FPS and RPS mixed up. Link to post Share on other sites
Utty Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 But he even mentions joules.. and what's this about better weight distribution, what difference would that do for an internal bolt? I think he has a lot of things mixed up. Link to post Share on other sites
Zero_DgZ Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 A heavier bolt would increase the FPS, wouldn't it? Harder smack on the valve, stays there longer before it gets pushed back... It would degrade ROF, though. No free lunch for you. Link to post Share on other sites
Death By Cadbury Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 Utty - youre absolutley right. He's very mixed up..... actually there IS sort of a "free lunch" when it comes to this gun, but it has nothing to do with the bolt. The design is a single-spring for its recoil and hammer spring. So the same spring controls FPS and ROF. Putting a spacer or buffer onto the recoil/hammer spring mech will dramatically increase both ROF (the bolt has less distance to travel, and this doesnt affect feeding because the bolt only has to go halfway back to pick up a bb) and FPS (increase spring tension leads to a harder valve smack). Link to post Share on other sites
Denihilator Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 My assumptions are based on experimental results. Temperature: 22 degrees of Celsius BBs: KSC 0.20 g Chronoscope: Combro cb-625 Mk 4 Gas: green (top) gas 70 g all magnesium bolt average muzzle velocity = 335.042 fps 50 g plastic + magnesium bolt average muzzle velocity = 346.792 fps Please explain why a light-weight bolt results in higher fps? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, think about conservation laws (conservation of momentum) of an assumed isolated system. The gas charge is used 1) to fire the BB and 2) to move the bolt to its original position. This system will have constant total momentum P = mass of BB x velocity of BB + mass of bolt x velocity of bolt. Mass of BB is a constant, e.g. we use the same BBs (0.20 g). If we decrease bolt weight, the velocities increase. It is mostly noticable on the bolt side and you will experience higher velocity of bolt = higher ROF, but from my measurements it is clear that it also has an impact on the velocity of BB (muzzle velocity). In reality you will have to consider many other factors, e.g. pressure & friction losses, recoil spring strength, etc... Link to post Share on other sites
Denihilator Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 and what's this about better weight distribution, what difference would that do for an internal bolt?<{POST_SNAPBACK}> You can assume that the bolt is kind of long piston inside the cylinder (upper & lower receiver). If the weight distribution of the piston is asymmetric (e.g. rear bottom is too down and front top is too up) it increases friction losses. Link to post Share on other sites
BigAl Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 All getting a bit technical know. Anyone got one yet? Link to post Share on other sites
Death By Cadbury Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 I appreciate your graph, den, I think the best conclusion you can gather from this is that for *some reason* the lighter bolt gives you a higher velocity. Balance of the bolt within the gun has little to do with anything, as long as the bolt is machined properly and is lubed. Over the long haul, the magnesium bolt will hold up much better, and a slightly stronger hammer/recoil spring or small spacer added to the stock spring will produce a better increase in FPS (more than the ~10 youre getting for sure) with added durability of a full-metal bolt. Link to post Share on other sites
Utty Posted March 23, 2006 Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 Were they two different bolts, or did you test the same bolt with the two different fronts? Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.