razor_sharp Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 Ok, so here is my predicament. I’m looking to buy some form of metal-bodied armalite with an RIS and collapsible stock, which preferably requires minimal maintenance. Iv looked around and have rely narrowed my choice down to two (although if anyone else has any other suggestions the welcome): CA M15 A4 (http://www.airsoftwarehouse.co.uk/acatalog/Classic_Army.html) ICS M4 R.I.S (http://www.zerooneairsoft.com/erol/erol.html) Which one would you suggest? Also as an afterthought where would you recommend buying from, iv heard good things about zero one for ICS, and have previous experience with airsoftwarehouse. Cheers, Alex Link to post Share on other sites
casey_cole Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 ICS has a split gearbox design which is easier to work on than a one piece gearbox, and it comes with a very good motor. The externals are slightly out in dimensions, and therefore (+ other factors) it can basically only take ICS aftermarket parts (though these are well made, and not expensive). The externals are finished very well - except the handguard which is a little shiny. CA has a one piece gearbox which is harder to work on, but the internals are still top-notch (and the wiring is better than the ICS). The externals are nearer to the real in terms of dimensions, and there are many, many aftermarket parts for it. The externals are finished very well. ICS: + Split gearbox. - Not many (but good ones) aftermarket parts. CA: - Single piece gearbox. + More after market parts. Other than that, it is basically a point of opinion - both sides say they have "heard" bad stuff about the other side. I bought a V1 ICS M4 - and it was maybe 8/10 - their new stuff (from Z1) is 10/10. The CAs are the same - they used to be 8/10 - now they're 10/10. For ICS - buy from Zero One. For CA - buy from the cheapest . On a different note, there is buttloads on this topic if you search for it . EDIT: lolownt Spantney . CC Link to post Share on other sites
Spantney Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 Have a look around on the forums, there are plenty of topics discussing CA and ICS armalites. I own a CA one and I've had used ICS ones too. I PERSONALLY prefer the CA armalites but both makes are extremely good and about the same price. My CA M15 has been faultless for the year and 20,000 rounds I've had it. The older ones where a bit dodgy (as with ICS) but the newer versions are extremely good. The hop-up on my M15 is fantastic and the range and power is awesome. The ICS performance wise is virtually the same. Around 328fps with .2g bb's. ICS are a bit easier to work with as they have the split gearbox design which enables you to change the mainspring in like 2 minutes, but I've taken my M15 almost completely down and rebuilt it again in under an hour so it just takes practice really. In short - go with which gun you like best. But have a look around the forums and hear some peoples opinions. My personal recommendation would be to go with the CA but I'm sure someone will recommend differently Excellent CA retailer is http://www.airsoftarmoury.co.uk Excellent ICS retailer is http://www.zerooneairsoft.co.uk Excellent retailer for both is http://www.fire-support.co.uk/store Cheers Edit: Casey beat me Link to post Share on other sites
razor_sharp Posted November 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 Thanks a lot you guys, all appreciated Link to post Share on other sites
Stealthbomber Posted November 14, 2006 Report Share Posted November 14, 2006 If you want an Armalite you need to buy from CA. ICS guns are Colts or Olympic Arms. Link to post Share on other sites
XenoBait Posted November 14, 2006 Report Share Posted November 14, 2006 If you want an Armalite you need to buy from CA. ICS guns are Colts or Olympic Arms. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah, following that up, the CA ones are officially armalite licensed, so which armalite is the armalite? The CA one, it's got Armalite written on it.... Link to post Share on other sites
Belladonna Posted November 14, 2006 Report Share Posted November 14, 2006 ICS = gimmicky gearbox (you will rarely change spring enough to warrent this) and nasty plastic grips... CA = solid as a rock, lovely polymer grips, indestructable, feels right, cheap enough, and does what it says on the tin... Link to post Share on other sites
casey_cole Posted November 14, 2006 Report Share Posted November 14, 2006 True - most people rarely change the spring out in England - because there's no point - but it is easier to work on. ICS is also solid as a rock, (neither are indestructible), feels right, is the same price, and also does what it says on the tin. There is no point in posting a comparison of two similar guns if you dwell on the bad points of one, and the good points of the other... CC Link to post Share on other sites
UrPeaceKeeper Posted November 14, 2006 Report Share Posted November 14, 2006 ICS = gimmicky gearbox (you will rarely change spring enough to warrent this) and nasty plastic grips... CA = solid as a rock, lovely polymer grips, indestructable, feels right, cheap enough, and does what it says on the tin... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Incorrect. I change mine frequently. Mainly because I play with different groups in different area's with different rules. One requires 400 fps w/ .2's the other is slightly less and is very strict about it. So i have to change between my 120 setup and my 110 setup about every other game. Having said that, I love my ICS to death, and its all personal preference. My suggestion to you is go to a retailer that has both the M15A4 Carbine and the 2006 ICS M4's and feel them both (Its essential that both are the M4 copies w/out other stuff) Which ever one feels best to you is the one you should get. Other then that each has its own unique system for everything. For Instance, CA has a 7mm Bearing gearbox which is ment to run high voltage batteries and high springs at high ROF's. Great design. ICS is ment for games with powerbanding, or people who play CQB and Woodland but dont want to buy two M4's to do this. Not to mention the ICS has some other unique features (Foward assist decompresses the spring and a nice Non moving Hop Up unit) It may be my oppinion but even the new CA's hop up units have issues with moving hop ups. (They loose their hop quickly because the wheel unwinds) however its also my oppinion that ICS needs to work on their switch assemblies and wiring units. Both are Equally good, both are worth the value. The choice is all in feel. For me it was the ICS. (However if you want a gun that is truely amazing for about the same price check out the WGC Custom M4, its a G&P M4 w/ reworked internals for better reliability!) Link to post Share on other sites
Cons Posted November 14, 2006 Report Share Posted November 14, 2006 "ICS = gimmicky gearbox (you will rarely change spring enough to warrent this) and nasty plastic grips..." i have recently purchased a ICS M4 para and i will be changing the springs frequently becuase i play at woodland with a limit of 350fs i believe and a urban underground site which hasa strict 300fps. so the split gearbox will be very usefull for me. just depends where you play realy Link to post Share on other sites
BigRedJ Posted November 14, 2006 Report Share Posted November 14, 2006 well from personal experience, and i'll say it over and over in these threads, i like ICS, especially the new ones, check my review (in my sig) as for stuff doesnt fit ICS gun, err yes it does, the only size problem is the receiver in CA guns is slightly higher than ithers, about 1/4" so thinks liek the CASV rail wont fit. As for CA yup their good too. just like ICS some of the early ones were pants, but most manufacturers are really getting their QA sorted. and yes i'm talking from experience, my bosses CA m15 is rock solid, never broken, but in contrast tims CA m15 is a pile of sh!te. As for the ICS's we have about 5 now and their still going fine, but thats just my view Link to post Share on other sites
casey_cole Posted November 14, 2006 Report Share Posted November 14, 2006 As for "stuff doesn't fit ICS guns", err yes it does Lot's of stuff doesn't - stocks for example, alteratively trademarked bodies etc. CC Link to post Share on other sites
BigRedJ Posted November 14, 2006 Report Share Posted November 14, 2006 Lot's of stuff doesn't - stocks for example, alteratively trademarked bodies etc. CC <{POST_SNAPBACK}> why would you want to change the body on a metal gun? and also why wouldint it? I'd have to try but sureley it it splits along the normal seams then it would work? and what stocks dont fit? Prime, hurricane, G&P ones have, well the ones i've fit so far have? Link to post Share on other sites
UrPeaceKeeper Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 why would you want to change the body on a metal gun? and also why wouldint it? I'd have to try but sureley it it splits along the normal seams then it would work? and what stocks dont fit? Prime, hurricane, G&P ones have, well the ones i've fit so far have? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You've fit non ICS Bodies on an ICS Gearbox? They are entirely different in design? I was unaware that any other metal bodies worked! News to me! I know G&P Rail kits will work with slight modification tot he ICS gun but they do work. Link to post Share on other sites
Holmes Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 So, if you are going to be doing a lot of external modding, then go with CA. However, if you want a great, solid performer, really go with either one. The ICS feels very different than the CA, so I would suggest trying them both out if possible. Go with the one you like the most, as they are both equally great guns. Link to post Share on other sites
Lance Jackass Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 why would you want to change the body on a metal gun? and also why wouldint it? I'd have to try but sureley it it splits along the normal seams then it would work? I want an A2 armalite, yet the ICS has a RIS rail upper. Now had ICS made their gearboxes to the same size as a normal V2, they would have sold thousands more of them, probably knocking the prowin gearbox out of the market. They missed a trick and i would say they lost possible profits because of it. ICS plastic isn't shoddy, its allright. Now its not as strong looking as the CAs, but it does have a gas tube and it hasn't broken on me yet. Just because its not AS strong it doesnt mean that its totally weak. Hell if you wanted to you could pick up some CA grips for about a fiver off the forums. Not only this but you could fit pretty much anything on the fore-end, as the barrel length can be easily changed. As can the barrel itself, if you file the existing hop up unit slightly. The ICS hop up unit is also another selling point to me - so much easier than my CA one to adjust. If i had the technical know how, i'd say that it's worth sripping down a gun, looking at it and lubing it up after buying. Early ICS guns had their problems, but the CAs don't seem to hot on QC. I saw a brand new CA rifle strip a gear after about 20 rounds a few weekends back. Not only this, but the CA M4 i had borrowed (still relatively new) just stopped firing, mid burst. Sparodic wiring problems... And i've seen quite a few CAs just "die" with wiring problems. Left alone for a few hours and then they worked again. Weird. It depends what you want in an AEG i guess. I've got both ICS and CA and i'll probably continue to buy CA from now. I want guns modelled on real ones - ecspecially the earlier A1/A2 series with the ability to chop and change. On the other hand, the ICS is very much the skirmishers weapon. If i need to change a spring i could either buy a new upper and do the job in seconds, or swap the spring over in minutes, using the fast take down. If i had bothered to buy a new lower gearbox, then i would have a back up - a drop in replacement, for if i strip a gear at a skirmish. Link to post Share on other sites
1st Commando Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 why would you want to change the body on a metal gun? and also why wouldint it? I'd have to try but sureley it it splits along the normal seams then it would work? and what stocks dont fit? Prime, hurricane, G&P ones have, well the ones i've fit so far have? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> perhaps because ICS metal is known to be comparable to spit and tissue paper in strength and weight ? Link to post Share on other sites
BigRedJ Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 perhaps because ICS metal is known to be comparable to spit and tissue paper in strength and weight ? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> a bit bitchy, and backed up by??? ICS bodies are alli, and not the usual pig iron used my many, and the weight of the gun ir spot on? I think i'll stop posting in thi s threat, as per usuual its starting to turn into a *badgeress* fest, rather than let people give opinions Link to post Share on other sites
1st Commando Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 backed up by the 5 snapped ICS bodies i have dealt with PERSONALLY in the last 18 months alone ! most of those being MP5s but a couple of Armalites too Link to post Share on other sites
UrPeaceKeeper Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 backed up by the 5 snapped ICS bodies i have dealt with PERSONALLY in the last 18 months alone ! most of those being MP5s but a couple of Armalites too <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I've had my 2006 ICS since July and I'm a pretty rough player (Almost 4 months after the TM M14 came out I already had stripped the scope mounting hole, ruined my Faux Bolt and fallen on the gun more then once (didnt break though)) It has survived my usage (which i consider to be close to a real soldiers abuse heh sorta) as well as falling down off of tables, creating arcs on walls, being fallen on (yes fallen on) and its still in once peice. Either I must have got a lemon compared to what you describe as these week bodied ICS guns or your people that you are repairing guns for are incredibly brutal with their guns. (Banging em against trees barrel first and what not) Having stated the previos comments I'd like to say that hte first game my bud had his M15A4 SPC, He fell on it, snapped his flashhider, broke the bottom rail off with his M203, broke his carrying handle and damn near lost his full stock. I was not thuroughly impressed. My other bud has the ICS Mp5A5 and its had its issues with wiring but its second hand and was rewired to the back. Its still working after being about 2 years old with some minor upgrades. Not once has his body appeared to be weak. Dont get me wrong, I think ICS and CA Both make excellent guns. OP you really need to decide two things: Are you going to be changing between CQB and Woodland Alot? And Which do you like the feel of better? The last one you need to go to a store or a local game and do. Link to post Share on other sites
casey_cole Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 Since you want to buy a RIS version from the word go - and you probably don't want different trademarks or stocks; either is as good as the other. Since you probably want a definitive answer from a few people to help you decide - I'm gonna go ICS; the new Turbo 3000 motor can seriosuly shift BBs! CC Link to post Share on other sites
Airsoftcrazed24/7 Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 amen!! i too love my ICS M4 RIS to death!....amen Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.