KSC VZ61 and PM

[NightFury]

I think WE and TM are the main players in the GBB market. Always something new and always something awesome. It seems to just take to long for these other companies to develop and produce.

[FireKnife]

Well back in the days when you could get a WA for less than £200-300 new KSC where about on par with TM and in many ways were better (KSC looked better, TM shot better due to not having retard-o-hop).

 

Now they seem to have shlunked back to the local Japan market while KWA USA / Worldwide tried to market the rest of the guns and often I found the only ones that sold were to Glocks (as they did more than just a 26 and 17 like TM) and the USPs as they were the only ones that made them. Now WE have come along and taken that away from them, also the likes of KJ have improved to market their guns too leaving KWA behind. Plus wasn't there a big kerfuffle with KWA back of last year with the USA office going tits up?

 

Either way a plastic PM is fine enough by me, even with retard-o-hop, as it will make for a nice backup in a old Soviet holster. Heres just hoping that it comes out soon enough, before WE make a PM off the potential success of the PMM.

 

'FireKnife' 

[Rob15]

The KWA rep at SHOT show had specifically said that the MP40 would not be a 2014 release, so no big surprise on that.

 

Though they did also say that the other models like the Makarov, 1911a1 and Skorpion would be. And surprise surprise, they aren't. I would think normally that if KSC were to release something that KWA would be soon to follow with their version.

Rather unsuprisingly given it'll be a near identical product from the same factory the KWA Vz61 is back on the radar,

 

http://www.popularairsoft.com/news/kwa-kz61vz61-scorpion-gbb-preview

 

Could still be a 2014 release for that, there is still a quarter of the year to go, although I think it'd be pretty close to the end of the year if they did try to get it out before 2015 now.

[Brigg]

Rather unsuprisingly given it'll be a near identical product from the same factory the KWA Vz61 is back on the radar,

 

http://www.popularairsoft.com/news/kwa-kz61vz61-scorpion-gbb-preview

 

Could still be a 2014 release for that, there is still a quarter of the year to go, although I think it'd be pretty close to the end of the year if they did try to get it out before 2015 now.

 

That's not what I was saying.  You only quoted part of my statement. What I had said what that KWA has NOT released models that KSC already has, like the AKS74U that came out last year from KSC but not KWA. And that I *dont* think that a KWA Skorpion is soon to follow. 

 

I don't believe that KWA is going to release anything, any time soon, and its not worth waiting for. Video or not, I just don't believe anything they say. As they have only told lie after lie.

[rusTORK]

Scorpion is really nice. Especially HW. Really waiting for it.

[Rob15]

That's not what I was saying.  You only quoted part of my statement. What I had said what that KWA has NOT released models that KSC already has, like the AKS74U that came out last year from KSC but not KWA. And that I *dont* think that a KWA Skorpion is soon to follow. 

You said a KWA rep had said the Vz61 would be a 2014 release yet hadn't been released which is true, as I said in my last post it could still be a 2014 release as there is still a quarter of the year to go, given that the KSC branded version should have been released in Japan a few days ago it is possible and I wouldn't assume KWA are going to release models available under the KSC brand in order of release, that is to say I think the Vz61 could be released before the AKS74U, if KWA are even still planning on releasing that at all.

 

None of it really matters to us mere airsofters though, unless we've paid deposits/pre-orders KWA don't owe us anything new and if they don't get new models out it's only them who will lose out and giving info and release dates of new products way too early will only really impact them negativly. If they don't release a particular model chances are someone else will, or we could just buy something else with our airsoft tokens.

[NightFury]

I think I'll settle for which ever one comes out first. I still haven't grabbed a WE MP5 yet just for the fact that, with what I make while in school right now, over 300 is just not possible at the moment. Hopefully it's sub 200 like the Mac 11s.

[FireKnife]

I think the big thing about the Makarov for many (me included) and why we are getting so annoyed is that it is a gun that is very popular, very common, fits with a lot of time periods and loadouts, was designed to be simple and easy to make and we have had smaller GBBs made.

 

But no-one seems to have just actually gone out and made one ready to sell yet. All we get it stupid KWA going "this may come out but *fruitcage* knows when" which is not really good enough for most of us.

 

I just can't wait until it is out and then I will be happy. Would be happier if the likes of TM made it but a functioning GBB Makarov with full slide travel that isn't made if cheese metal is all I want, is that too much. Clearly KWA thinks so and for that I doubt I will ever bother buying a gun of theirs again, coupled with the fact that TM is better for skirmishing and WE is cheaper yet seems to last just as long.

 

'FireKnife'

[NightFury]

To add to that. KWA does not have the same reputation that TM has. If TM says something and it comes out five years later. We don't mind because in the end we know it's a good product. Just look at the M&P. Kwa, thinks it's TM and believes everyone is sees their products as immaculate, and even if it takes them 10 years to release something, everyone is going to buy it.

[Brigg]

Its not even reputation or 'not minding'. Tokyo marui showed a handfull of resin casts and said 'hey we're making these at some point' and then released them 5 years later. KWA showed working prototypes and said 'these will be out this year' and still hasn't released them nearly 3 years later. They did videos and told us to expect them soon.

TM at least never said when, they never even showed prototypes. They just showed some mockups. Not working models. KWA literally went around the country showing off the new models. I personally held their makarov and 1911a1. And then kwa lost their *albatross* and couldn't find it again even with two hands and a map.

And then they show another new model and say its coming soon. Sorry but at this point all I see is a company who can't be trusted. Even if they do release the skorpion, it won't change that.

[FireKnife]

True KWA are being a bunch of jeb-ends about this all but I wonder how KSC will fair.

 

They at least give pictures and out soon while not making you wait too long if you live in the Far-East.

 

But either way it seems now like we have ended up in one of those 'wait for ever and two come along at once' with regards to the Mak, but again as I have said before where is it? Why can't it just be released?

 

'FireKnife'

[Zereck]

VZ61 review. Unfortunatelly its only in french at the moment. Tough from the shooting parts it seems gas efficent but not much recoil.

[renegadecow]

That was with 134a though. But after seeing the nozzle and bolt size it would probably only recoil as much as the M11M11 even on green gas. I find it funny how he keeps complaining about the light trigger pull when the gun is NOT cocked.

[Brigg]

I wouldn't have expected it to kick much more then the KSC/KWA M11. I mean, the KWA/KSC MP7 and Mp9 have nearly non existent recoil as well. Why would a differently shaped SMG using the same System 7/NS2 system be any different?

 

Not that it should matter much anyway, since a real Skorpion in its usual .32ACP chambering doesn't really kick much either (And yes I have fired one). Im really just wondering about the rate reducer system that KSC have apparently included on this, which was unfortunately not mentioned in the French review. I don't think its been mentioned yet whether its functional or just cosmetic.

[renegadecow]

There was a parts diagram shown some time back and it definitely looked functional. Not sure if the production model still has it though.

[jv83]

They have it at Ehobbyasia now, also long mags. Who wants to be test dummy?

[Rob15]

They have it at Ehobbyasia now, also long mags.

The magazine capacities seem quite low really, 20rnds in the standard magazine where Maruzen got 30 in and more expensive than the Japanese made Maruzen mags were, infact the Vz61 itself is over double what the Maruzen Vz61 sold for even though it's made in Taiwan rather than Japan, that said at least the KSC Vz61 is available and the mags will be easier to source and repair I expect.

 

I'd hang on for a bit and see if KWA release their version though (it's airsoft, who actually needs a Vz61 right now?) since it'll basically be the same thing from the same factory but cheaper, then again, I already have a Maruzen Vz61, I dislike the ergonmics of it and the KSC Vz61 would have to perform insanely well to justify the much higher price for something made in a country with lower manufacturing costs and much lower magazine capacities for me.

[FireKnife]

(it's airsoft, who actually needs a Vz61 right now?)

 

Isn't that an oxymoron though? I don't need a shotgun but I want one .

 

I don't need a Makarov but I do want one. Though valid points on the lacking parts of this gun. 20rds just seems silly as surely this thing uses barely any gas anyway given that the bolt it is cycling is probably rather light.

 

Still it isn't another M4 and it is a bit of variety but it just feels like it isn't really going to make that much difference given other options exist.

 

'FireKnife'

[jv83]

The magazine capacities seem quite low really, 20rnds in the standard magazine where Maruzen got 30 in and more expensive than the Japanese made Maruzen mags were, infact the Vz61 itself is over double what the Maruzen Vz61 sold for even though it's made in Taiwan rather than Japan, that said at least the KSC Vz61 is available and the mags will be easier to source and repair I expect.

 

I'd hang on for a bit and see if KWA release their version though (it's airsoft, who actually needs a Vz61 right now?) since it'll basically be the same thing from the same factory but cheaper, then again, I already have a Maruzen Vz61, I dislike the ergonmics of it and the KSC Vz61 would have to perform insanely well to justify the much higher price for something made in a country with lower manufacturing costs and much lower magazine capacities for me.

I agree on all of the above. I also have the Maruzen, but want something that I can hopefully get replacement parts for in the future. Maybe just for plinking, so I dont mind the long mags being 40rds. Must resist urge and wait for cheaper KWA version.

[Rob15]

I don't need a Makarov but I do want one. Though valid points on the lacking parts of this gun. 20rds just seems silly as surely this thing uses barely any gas anyway given that the bolt it is cycling is probably rather light.

My Maruzen on a good day using semi-auto will do something like 4x+ the capacity of the magazines from each fill on green gas (120rnds) from what I remember. KSC/KWA GBBs seem to be good on efficiency generally so I'd hope for similar performance, if it can't do 4x capacity on a good day with only 20rnd capacity I'd be dissapointed.

 

Must resist urge and wait for cheaper KWA version.

If you have a Maruzen Vz61 that would be the sensible option, if you're capable of waiting a bit longer it seems a bit daft to spend more on something made in the same factory in Taiwan that's just been taxed and shipped around more, if the KWA version does get released the resulting saving from waiting would probably pay for a few extra magazines.

[jv83]

If you have a Maruzen Vz61 that would be the sensible option, if you're capable of waiting a bit longer it seems a bit daft to spend more on something made in the same factory in Taiwan that's just been taxed and shipped around more, if the KWA version does get released the resulting saving from waiting would probably pay for a few extra magazines.

You are quite right. No hurry, maybe also see when people start doing reviews.

[renegadecow]

Maybe it's a typo and they meant that it's the 20rd type of mag in real steel terms? They always say the WE AK mags are 30 rounders but in fact hold up to 45.

[FireKnife]

My Maruzen on a good day using semi-auto will do something like 4x+ the capacity of the magazines from each fill on green gas (120rnds) from what I remember. KSC/KWA GBBs seem to be good on efficiency generally so I'd hope for similar performance, if it can't do 4x capacity on a good day with only 20rnd capacity I'd be dissapointed.

 

Well if it does I would have to question why they stick to such a low capacity. I mean if you have the potential for more shot why not make it so the mag can hold more? Wouldn't even need to sacrifice much gas space if any at all.

 

Silly KWA/KSC .

 

'FireKnife'

[Rob15]

Maybe it's a typo and they meant that it's the 20rd type of mag in real steel terms? They always say the WE AK mags are 30 rounders but in fact hold up to 45.

The KSC website says 20rnd and 40rnd magazines as well so I don't think it's a typo, I'd have expected 30rnds and 50rnds myself, looking at the KSC website it also looks like it has a magensium bolt whereas the Maruzen has a plastic bolt with a metal nozzle carrier, it'd be quite interesting to see how the complete bolts compare weight wise.

 

The magazines have plastic feed lips too rather than metal ones often found on KWA/KSC guns, do not like

[renegadecow]

Personally I like ABS feed lips. More resilient to damage being pliable whereas metal just caves in and impossible to push back out without snapping.