New SYSTEMA REVOLUTION Gearbox releasing early 2009

[Magsz]

I will be the second if systema provides say lifetime warranty, if they do provide lifetime warranty I would not hesitate to buy it even if i I have to sell a kidney!

 

Why do you think they would provide a lifetime warranty? Machines break, especially machines with little moving parts in them.

 

Reputable firearms manufacturers warranty their rifles for life simply because the average user will NEVER reach the failure point of the machine in their lifetime. Their business model allows them to replace the extremely small amount of guns that break before their lifespan is up.

 

No airsoft manufacturer could ever do this simply because of how complex and craptacular airsoft guns are. There are simply too many moving parts and too many variables involved with an airsoft gun. Having said that, there are also far too many morons operating airsoft guns...

 

Give a monkey a firearm and they would kill themselves. Give a monkey an airsoft gun and they would probably blind themselves but not before breaking the airsoft gun.

 

I am still interested in this product but to be perfectly honest, i will not pay a premium for it. It offers NOTHING over a conventional mosfet equipped gearbox other than a short throw on the trigger.

 

Redwolf, innovation is all fine and dandy but so is making buttloads of money off of a fairly priced innovative product. Systema really needs to learn this. If PTW's were priced fairly, there wouldnt be any reason to use a conventional AEG since the gearbox design is indeed better. The lack of decent externals, hop up and horrible magazines cripple the system. If the price were fair, these foibles could be overlooked, at least by me.

[greg]

Shame it doesn't share the ptw's hot-swap cylinder.

 

 

Greg.

[hazmatt]

I fail to understand why people ###### on the PTW and say it offers nothing over the "normal" AEG. Operationally it has far fewer parts, is easy to work on, and is very reliable. The externals in my opinion are better than the other stock metal bodied AEG's out there in fit and finish. Sure it is costly but in my opinion it is worth it. I have built Marui based AEG's which cost just as much if not more and offer no added functions like the bolt catch, no dry fire, full cycle for every trigger pull, and 5 second replaceable cylinders. There is nothing I hate more than being in the middle of a game and have my main weapon go down. This has not happened to me yet since I have started using my PTW this last year. This new gearbox offers to bring some of these features to the "normal" AEG. I for one cannot wait so I can revive some of my older AEG's that are collecting dust in the corner.

[Blue4]

I'm in the process of buying two new PTWs after using my team mates one. I could never go back to traditional AEGs now. HOWEVER. this may well be just what I need to go with my old TM CAR15 and the brand new Hurricane metal body I found for it!

[greg]

I fail to understand why people ###### on the PTW and say it offers nothing over the "normal" AEG. Operationally it has far fewer parts, is easy to work on, and is very reliable. The externals in my opinion are better than the other stock metal bodied AEG's out there in fit and finish. Sure it is costly but in my opinion it is worth it. I have built Marui based AEG's which cost just as much if not more and offer no added functions like the bolt catch, no dry fire, full cycle for every trigger pull, and 5 second replaceable cylinders. There is nothing I hate more than being in the middle of a game and have my main weapon go down. This has not happened to me yet since I have started using my PTW this last year. This new gearbox offers to bring some of these features to the "normal" AEG. I for one cannot wait so I can revive some of my older AEG's that are collecting dust in the corner.

 

I don't get on with M16-a-likes so a ptw is out of the question.

 

Don't really like MP5's either.

 

If they do a G36, I might have been tempted. But not now.

 

The PTW/Revo do offer an alternative to upgrading a very old design which is continually being tuned way beyond its original & intended 800rpm, 285fps spec.

 

However,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, THE COST!!

 

I would agree, that a few years ago, to get a ver 2 to perform flawlessly at, say 1500rpm, 350fps, was nigh on impossible & would give a huge bill, possibly approaching the cost of a ptw.

 

But now, you can pick up a Jingo-Jongo-Bingo-Bongo (or something) for next to nothing & expect 1200rpm, 350fps out of the box. Re-wire it with a mosfet, add a lipo (rof now aproaches 1500rpm!) & you have a respectably reliable gun for less than a fifth the cost of a ptw. You can buy another as back up (not that you will need it) & still have change to buy a cheap car to take you skirmishing. If you need a 500fps semi auto electro sniper, for £300 or less you can buy a CA, slap in a big spring, fet, lipo & go for it. Surprisingly, I know of one which as performed flawlessly like this for over 2 years (used every other week!).

 

Granted, you don't get the ptw's hot swap cylinder, but neither does the revo. & for the cost of a ptw, you could get 3 or 4 'clones' & load them with different springs!!!!

 

The Ptw does generate emotion, but for all the wrong reasons. Those who can afford it & love it, will defend it to the hilt. When challenged over their baby's superiority, they really get the hump. & of course, this brings out the bad side of the haters.

 

I really wanted a PTW (when they were first publicized) & was disappointed that no G36 was available. I have used & studied PTW's but chosen to avoid buying & owning one. This is because, IMO, they don't offer you anything, that you can't add to a 'normal' gun, for less money. A lot less money.

 

Having said that, if you don't want to 'fiddle' with you gun, the PTW is very attractive: To date, I can't think of a gun that performs as well, out of the box. However, adding a fet (for a few quid ) to most others will give similar results. The ptw has a fet. Big deal.

 

Personally, I believe in a live & let live attitude & if you have & love your PTW, good for you. But in the same way, you have to respect the opinion of folk who choose differently.

 

 

Greg.

[Magsz]

Greg, fantastic post man, i agree with 99% of it, especially the closing sentence.

 

If you love your PTW, fine, more power to you. Just dont come on here touting how awesome and amazing it is because quite frankly, you're blowing smoke up a hell of a lot of skirts because that simply isnt true.

 

In your eyes its amazing and awesome but beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

 

If the revolution is priced accordingly, it could indeed be a revolution for the market otherwise...heh, no thanks.

[Victory]

One thing I'm curious about...water resistance.

 

Granted, I don't plan on swimming with my AEGs, but playing in the rain isn't something I wouldn't do.

 

-Vic

[hazmatt]

Greg, fantastic post man, i agree with 99% of it, especially the closing sentence.

 

If you love your PTW, fine, more power to you. Just dont come on here touting how awesome and amazing it is because quite frankly, you're blowing smoke up a hell of a lot of skirts because that simply isnt true.

 

In your eyes its amazing and awesome but beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

 

If the revolution is priced accordingly, it could indeed be a revolution for the market otherwise...heh, no thanks.

 

 

My intent was not to "blow smoke" up any skirts. It is that very attitude I don't understand. I own and love my PTW's, do I believe everyone else should.....of course not. Do I look down on those who do not have one .... no to that too (most of the time they are the ones eliminating me from the game ). I simply posted facts about the PTW such as design features and such. If it is my opinion that something is awesome and amazing that is my right to have that opinion and it is your right to have a different opinion. But the attitude that I cannot share my opinion with those that would listen simply because I don't have the same opinion as you is outright wrong. To make things worse most of the negative comments made about PTW's or any other product come from those who don't even own said product. Simply put the most valuable comments come from those who own a product, not those who have read about them. Getting back to the Revolution, I think it will have a place in Airsoft so long as it can perform as advertised.

 

 

[cazboab]

Simply put the most valuable comments come from those who own a product, not those who have read about them.

I don't really think that's as true as you'd suggest, in must be the case that at least some of those who don't own a particular product and make negative comments have tried the product and based on the experience, didn't buy it. Or perhaps it contains a particular feature they don't like, such as the maruzen Mp5k firing from an open bolt, or in the case of the PTW, for me its been the price and the restriction on the mags it can use. There is also just as you say what has been read(E.G.I'm sorta disappointed the tappet less nozzle is more complicated than "magnets" ) as well most of which comes from the owners, for instance the electronics haven't had the best reputation since the lot way back when that went funny and needed the bolt catch held to fire.

 

All that aside, if the price is right on the revolution and the burst version is out soon I'm building an m16a2 around one.

[hazmatt]

Point taken, it has been my experience that a review or opinion should come from a source which has a complete picture of the product and that picture can most easily be had by ownership. What I mean to say is that the opinion of someone who owns a particular product (and has had it for a while) should hold more weight than someone who has just read about it or used it in a game. I understand that everyone is entitled to their own opinion and granted I own a latter model PTW and have little to know working knowledge of the ones before, but my experience has be positive less the price tag. Worth it to me but maybe not to others.

[greg]

Point taken, it has been my experience that a review or opinion should come from a source which has a complete picture of the product and that picture can most easily be had by ownership. What I mean to say is that the opinion of someone who owns a particular product (and has had it for a while) should hold more weight than someone who has just read about it or used it in a game. I understand that everyone is entitled to their own opinion and granted I own a latter model PTW and have little to know working knowledge of the ones before, but my experience has be positive less the price tag. Worth it to me but maybe not to others.

I think the most valuable information, is from a balanced, non bias, trust worthy source. With an overall view, unclouded by emotional attachment, or financial incentive.

 

If these criteria are met, ownership (or not) is irrelevant.

 

But what would I know.

 

 

Greg.

[Stealthbomber]

Not sure if I'd buy one of these or not.

TBH, my ICS M4 is currently working so well with a mosfet and 11.1v LiPo's that I can't imagine this being a useful improvement.

 

Anyway, all I really wanted to say was that, regardless of whether I'd buy the Systema one or not, I DEFINITELY wouldn't buy a chinese clone of it.

I've spent a lot of time working with Element spare parts recently and, I gotta say, anybody who says they're equal to parts produced by people like Systema and G&P etc is talking out of their ar5e badly mistaken.

I'd honestly NEVER buy another chinese gearbox part again. They're junk compared to the jap' stuff.

AEG internals are pretty cheap parts anyway.

 

S'funny, I bet there's a whole generation of airsofters coming through who think that it's normal for there to be gaps between gearbox shell halves, for shims to be a tight fit on gear spindles, for cylinders and cylinder heads to be hard to assemble, for gears to have tight spots in their mesh and, well, a hundred other things too.

 

[/offtopic]

[appslapp]

I dont know what type of chinese clones you have been playing/fixing with, but the ones I have upgraded and playing with are better than any TM when it comes to gears and gearbox shell.

But I agree with the element gears , but only the "all helical" they are junk.

 

 

If the price is right i will buy SYSTEMA REVOLUTION Gearbox .......pleas make a V3 to;)

[AustinWolv]

better than any TM when it comes to gears and gearbox shell.

Those are the only parts you'll speak to?

[greg]

Not sure if I'd buy one of these or not.

TBH, my ICS M4 is currently working so well with a mosfet and 11.1v LiPo's that I can't imagine this being a useful improvement.

 

Anyway, all I really wanted to say was that, regardless of whether I'd buy the Systema one or not, I DEFINITELY wouldn't buy a chinese clone of it.

I've spent a lot of time working with Element spare parts recently and, I gotta say, anybody who says they're equal to parts produced by people like Systema and G&P etc is talking out of their ar5e badly mistaken.

I'd honestly NEVER buy another chinese gearbox part again. They're junk compared to the jap' stuff.

AEG internals are pretty cheap parts anyway.

 

S'funny, I bet there's a whole generation of airsofters coming through who think that it's normal for there to be gaps between gearbox shell halves, for shims to be a tight fit on gear spindles, for cylinders and cylinder heads to be hard to assemble, for gears to have tight spots in their mesh and, well, a hundred other things too.

 

[/offtopic]

 

 

Wow, I was under the (obviously false) impression that Element was worth a go. In particular, I had heard many testaments to the Element piston being one of the best on the market.

 

 

Greg.

[Horsem4n]

well, on the subject of warranty, when systema released the first slew of info on these boxes they stated that if the gearbox is installed buy a systema technician (from any of the stores listed on Zshot.com) and any work done to the box must also be handled by a tech, it has a lifetime warranty.

[RedWolf]

Hi everyone,

Systema has notified us of the tentative retail price of 50,000 yen, which translates to about USD550 at the current yen to USD exchange rate. Of course this is the MSRP and the actual retail will be slightly lower.

 

cheers

www.redwolfairsoft.com

[Horsem4n]

BLARG that's about 100 over what i predicted a long time ago...

 

of course, that would only be a ~$50 mark down from MSRP.

 

good to know though.

[appslapp]

all the other parts in a tm gearbox is quiet equal to a China gearbox ala Cyma/Dboys/JG/A&K...........and for the record, i think that all the other parts from element are very good......apart from the all helical gears. The piston is very good.

 

550$...mmm thats not cheap;).....maybe i buy a magnum and a mosfet for my m4;)

[Kirby1986]

This is just me and my take.

 

Systema is definitely tossing a wrench into the machine with this release. For the past 15 years, there really hasn't been much innovation from an AEG maker. Granted, TM perfected their hop unit, but they did that once and have kept it the same basically since day one.

 

Everyone is hailing the Chinese Clones for their innovation. Perhaps. But all I see the clones doing is using the same clone internals and using different externals. And yes, some of them have improved their QC by leaps and bounds. But has there been a single clone that has been able to come close to the wonder that is the stock TM piston? No, and stock TM pistons will continue to be worth their weight in gold. Dont believe me? Go and weigh one. Redwolf sells TM pistons with piston head and spring for $15.

 

As for Systema, I think this marriage of the PTW ECU with a regular AEG body (and thus, a TM style hop up) would give a weapon who has the best of both worlds. I congratulate Systema for being one of the few AEG makers that actually do provide innovation as opposed to imitation.

[Horsem4n]

well, KWA did some serious re designing of the gearbox to alleviate stress on the piston via sector gear. the gearbox was also very rigid and tough against cracking (unless you abuse you guns to *suitcase* via the rest of my team and then replace the broken parts with regular AEG parts).

 

they brought over the major dawning of lipo batteries.

[Radrockin]

Well this gearbox for a version II still has a flaw and that’s where the Shock Transfer System Comes into play. All V2 Gearboxes will break over time unless they have the reinforcement which I don’t see on this Gear box ?

^^ Systema 500.00 gearbox with no reinforecement on the front.

V2 Gear Box with STS

Innovation is cool and computers installed are great however, how can you have a Gearbox for a V2 with a one piece hopup unit designed and sold for 500.00 USD and not have any change to the front end of the Gearbox shell for durability?

 

Unless I am missing info or something this box just has a computer chip in it and it’s made by Systema with airsofters in mind and we all know how well Systema gearboxes hold up in a Version 2 with one piece hop up.

 

The new Systema sure seems to have a thicker shell however there is no front end reinforcement. so maybe they are ready to replace these gearboxes with their warranty and its no big deal to Systema?

 

Like stealthbomber said ... "he will stick with his ICS"

I will stick with the STS

rad

 

[Horsem4n]

can you not see it? look at where the systema box broke. now look at the revolution. see how much closer the bottom ridge is to the front it lines up with the front of the cylinder. the gearboxes are also most likely made out of a better material. besides, im sure your product would fit right on.

take a look:

 

 

now, the thinnest part at the bottom right corner of the cylinder window looks to be the weak point though, but the 2nd screw there may change that. also, look how thick that top ridge is.

[Radrockin]

Hmm, good points.

 

I will have Ajax look at this and then I will update. I do see what you speak of Horsem4n.

 

 

IMO it still seems to thin in the front though even after "beefing it up" wouldn't you agree? (just my thought)

 

 

[Horsem4n]

sure, ill always be worried about its rigidity. but i'm not one of those power hungry people. i feel just fine about strictly running m110 springs.