uscmCorps Posted August 6, 2008 Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 Hope this is new news... Browsing over at DEN Trinity, I noticed they're now listing plastic 120 round mags for the Systema M4 PTW. They come sets of 5 mags per box and each box costs US$61 !!! Linked HERE. Considering one regular Systema M4 PTW mag costs $50, 5 mags for $61 is pretty incredible. Sure, these new ones aren't metal, but at least they don't break the bank as badly as the metal ones do. These are made by a company called Saber whom I've never heard of before. Seems like good news for the PTW crowd. Link to post Share on other sites
Titleist Posted August 6, 2008 Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 If you say so....those can't be good. Link to post Share on other sites
justin.kovacs Posted August 6, 2008 Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 The internals may be decent enough for the fellow on the PTW forums who uses them to make PTW P-Mags...... Hmmm...... Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyJ Posted August 6, 2008 Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 isnt the reason people buy Systema PTW's is so they can get the most realistic AEG possible for their money's worth? Plastic mags is kinda defeating the purpose of the PTW unless you are in straight performance and care nothing for PTW characteristics. Link to post Share on other sites
masakarijoe Posted August 6, 2008 Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 i think this is a great idea. -Joe Link to post Share on other sites
justin.kovacs Posted August 6, 2008 Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 I bought my PTW for the realism. I love having to tap the bolt release everytime I load a new mag, I also love the feel and weight to the gun. Eight fully loaded, full metal PTW magazines are quite a bit heavier than standard AEG mags as well, even metal ones. I like this new though. There is a guy who takes the guts out of PTW magazines and mods them to fit into P-Mag Shells, but their not cheap, considering the initial cost of PTW magazines, the P-Mag shell and his labor. I have been wanting to get a 6 pack of P-Mags made, but not at $250 for the PTW mags, plus the P-Mag Shells, plus his time and labor......... This may be a viable alternative. Link to post Share on other sites
uscmCorps Posted August 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 If you say so....those can't be good. That's one pretty absolute statement. It's possible that they'll suck. It's also possible that they're super reliable. Just because they're relatively inexpensive and the outer shell is plastic doesn't mean that they can't operate as well as a regular Systema Mag. isnt the reason people buy Systema PTW's is so they can get the most realistic AEG possible for their money's worth? Plastic mags is kinda defeating the purpose of the PTW unless you are in straight performance and care nothing for PTW characteristics. Perhaps. But then again I'm willing to bet that there are a lot of people out there that are interested in the PTW as they like the PTW operating characteristics but flinch at the prospect of spending another $500+ on just mags alone. But if you're right, then these will not sell, and that'll be the end of that. Link to post Share on other sites
Titleist Posted August 6, 2008 Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 USCM, you're under the assumption that the regular systema mags work well. Which they don't. The PTW mags are finnicky at best, proving once again that expensive does not equal great. So potentially shoddier mags that are cheaper don't really thrill me at the prospect. But eh, buyer beware. Plus plastic mags? Can't we fix the problems that are worth fixing like a hopup not designed by cavemen? Link to post Share on other sites
Magsz Posted August 6, 2008 Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 Realism...rofl. A bolt catch with zero tactile feedback...awesome. Not to mention it barely ever works but whatever floats all of your boats. Im not too worried about these magazines because they're cheaper. I mean really now, Systema has been overcharging since day one. The internals of those magazines cost them MAYBE five bucks a piece to manufacturer if even that. Im pretty sure they can be cloned at least semi reliably for a much better price. The issue here is that like Titleist said, if its a straight up clone, they're cloning a flawed design. Link to post Share on other sites
uscmCorps Posted August 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 All good points. To put a positive spin on things, if these mags were as reliable as regular PTW mags (whatever level of reliability those maybe) wouldn't it be a good thing to have a cheap alternative? And if the Systema mags do suck as much as you guys say they do, I'd rather waste $120 on a tactical loadout of mags than $500. That said I did just drop $800+ on 9 spare mags for my WA M4, so it's not like I have a huge aversion to wasting money... but in hindsight I would have preferred plastic mags that cost 30% of the original's price. Is the cup half full or half empty? The very fact that someone went to the effort to create these plastic PTW mags clearly says they saw a desire for it in the PTW consumer market. I highly doubt they made these on a whim given the financial investment something like this would require. But as has been said over and over again, if Saber was wrong in speculating that these would be a popular alternative and/or these mags simply suck, then it'll be a very hard lesson learned. Link to post Share on other sites
Magsz Posted August 6, 2008 Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 There are plenty of products out there that were dreamed up by people that really have no grasp on what the market really wants so lets not totally disregard the possibility of this being a fact in regards to these magazines. Having said that, no, i do not believe saber is totally off base with this release. I no longer skirmish my PTW's because doing tactical reloads with no retention hurts and it hurts ALOT with ptw magazines. The point where i stopped using my PTW's was when i dropped two mags onto concrete in a firefight. Busted feed lips and destroyed shells, 100 dollars out the door. I like to spend money, i dont like WASTING money which is what i believe the PTW and all of its accessories to be. Having said all of that, i probably wouldnt have felt so bad if i had been using these plastic magazines and they had taken a dump on me after i dumped them. My biggest gripe with the whole thing is that Systema touts their gun as being some sort of awesome training weapon yet you have to baby it. My real m4's and my real magazines never need any kind of babying. My Pmags routinely get abused simply because i want to see what it takes to make them fail. What the hell kind of training weapon is it when you need to baby it? Plastic magazines, unless they're made of a durable polymer seem to be a step backwards. I wish someone would innovate already instead of make things cheaper by skimping on materials. Again, this comes back to my original statement where i said that the metal PTW magazines were overpriced to begin with but man, where is the middle ground? Airsoft seems to be a sport of extremes. Good and then meh, i still have yet to find a middle ground. Link to post Share on other sites
Wupjak Posted August 6, 2008 Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 USCM, you're under the assumption that the regular systema mags work well. Which they don't. The PTW mags are finnicky at best, proving once again that expensive does not equal great. So potentially shoddier mags that are cheaper don't really thrill me at the prospect. But eh, buyer beware. Plus plastic mags? Can't we fix the problems that are worth fixing like a hopup not designed by cavemen? TROG-SAN DESIGN HOP UP! TROG-SAN LOVE PTW HOP UP! RRRRR!!!! In two years of skirmishing with my PTW, I never had a problem with any of my (9) mags once I pulled the retarded follower thing out of them. They always fed every round. Others have not been so lucky. In the end, unlike some who suffer disillusion with the whole PTW thing, I finally sold mine off because I'm strapped for dough and 2 G's was too much money tied up into a toy gun. If anything, my big beef with the mags was they were bricks (.75 pounds), whether loaded or empty. Not my idea of fun on an all-day op, but then, at least they're pretend guns and pretend mags, and I'm pretending to *badgeress* about having to pretend carry them for 2 whole hours. lol. Nice idea I guess, but it sorta misses the mark imho. Then again with the Celsius PTW coming, who knows, maybe the MAG mag type thing will get traction. Link to post Share on other sites
Burke Posted August 6, 2008 Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 Lol, you still think the Celsius PTW is coming. I thougth that was fake... Link to post Share on other sites
Skarclaw Posted August 6, 2008 Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 Kinda says alot about the PTW when plastic mags costing only 60 dollars for 5 is positivly received... Well, I guess there is more choice on the market. Link to post Share on other sites
Wupjak Posted August 6, 2008 Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 Lol, you still think the Celsius PTW is coming. I thougth that was fake... Is it? I've been out of the loop for awhile. The last fake I heard of was FarEast's report of the clone WA M4. Link to post Share on other sites
Inq Eisenhorn Posted August 6, 2008 Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 I firmly believe the Celcius was and is still cotton candy wishful thinking. If a company like Celcius could make and mass produce a cheap PTW.....where is it?!? Link to post Share on other sites
Korppi Posted August 6, 2008 Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 These mags+SP M16=boltstop, fantastic. Link to post Share on other sites
Bob the Angry Potato Posted August 6, 2008 Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 I firmly believe the Celcius was and is still cotton candy wishful thinking. If a company like Celcius could make and mass produce a cheap PTW.....where is it?!? Been Emailing back and forth, expected release is in September. Link to post Share on other sites
Magsz Posted August 6, 2008 Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 These mags+SP M16=boltstop, fantastic. HUH?! Been Emailing back and forth, expected release is in September. HUH?! Been emailing back and forth with who? Celcius or an anonymous source? Link to post Share on other sites
Noart Posted August 6, 2008 Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 Why should these magazines be much more crappier than i.e MAG's plastic mags for AEG's you can buy in bulk for almost no money. The magazines aren't much more expensive to make, it's just that Systema overprice them ALOT.(personal reflection) So i don't get what the fuzz is all about, some pepole buy PTWs just for preformance like someone mentioned alredy, i would buy one if i could afford it, not for the "realism" but for the preformance. If it's even near as good as the original magazines i'd buy them for my PTW but if they are *suitcasey* then i wouldn't, easy as that. Calling something *suitcasey* before they've read reviews/tried themselves is just plain stupid. Link to post Share on other sites
Magsz Posted August 6, 2008 Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 No one called the magazines *suitcasey*. Link to post Share on other sites
Noart Posted August 7, 2008 Report Share Posted August 7, 2008 "If you say so....those can't be good." Link to post Share on other sites
Magsz Posted August 7, 2008 Report Share Posted August 7, 2008 "If you say so....those can't be good." Touche! Link to post Share on other sites
IronWolf Posted August 7, 2008 Report Share Posted August 7, 2008 These mags+SP M16=boltstop, fantastic. HUH?! /snip There's a SP floating around that has been modified to accept PTW mags and has a functional bolt catch. AFAIK though this was a one off though Korppi? Is Justin working on a similar modification? Link to post Share on other sites
Magsz Posted August 7, 2008 Report Share Posted August 7, 2008 Interesting. Thanks for the info Ironwolf. Link to post Share on other sites
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