You Opinion on AEG Snipers

[epicdoom]

I have to agree and dissagree with that statement Trasher I'm not flaming you bro your statement holds water to a point. I'm a military trained marksman/sniper yes with good ammo and a well moded cheap gun a fair level of accuracy can be had. I do honestly believe in the end it's a skilled shooter that makes the shot. Having seen many folks fail to shoot well enough to make marksman in the service with good equipment and ammo, I cant get my head around anyother way of thinking.

 

I honestly think the problem with consistant accuracy in airsoft falls to many factors first you would need to have consistant air pressure to propel a bb then that bb would have to be exactly as the one befor and after it, in weight and shape. I do weigh my bb's into groups but I can do nothing about there shape. I also can get my gun shooting within a few FPS but can in no way make it shoot the same FPS every time. My best equipment in this case is myself. I can control me and how I make things lead up to during and after the shot.

 

I think using an AEG for sniping is fine I have used one since I started playing airsoft Some think sniping with a auto gun goes against tradition I can agree and dissagree with this statement. Movies have long painted the sniper as being a bolt action only type of soldier. If you think soldiers weren't using there semi auto M1 gerands and full auto M14 and M16's to pick enemies off with single shot precision in the war from good distances, guess again. It did and still does happen.

 

 

Doom

[Trasher]

I do honestly believe in the end it's a skilled shooter that makes the shot.

We can agree on that... Point is, in airsoft the equipment weighs more in the equation since the quality/consistency level is much lower compared to air- or real steel rifles.

 

The very reason why I use bolt action exclusively. I'd love to buy a gas/electric semi-auto which is as accurate and reliable as my VSR with heavy BBs, but I don't see any viable solution.

 

[The Bushman]

We can agree on that... Point is, in airsoft the equipment weighs more in the equation since the quality/consistency level is much lower compared to air- or real steel rifles.

 

The very reason why I use bolt action exclusively. I'd love to buy a gas/electric semi-auto which is as accurate and reliable as my VSR with heavy BBs, but I don't see any viable solution.

 

I have to agree with Trasher. Low levels of quality in this sport often lead to missing the target, when the shooter did nothing wrong. That is why the Airsoft skirmish sport, allows massive amounts of shots to compensate for this poor accuracy.

 

Despite that, I have not seen a semi auto that could match my m40a1 bolt rifle when it comes to long range firing/accuracy. I think the MK23 gas system with VSR rubbers, would be the best basis for a serious semi auto rifle and have far more chance of success than an AEG at higher power.

 

Good Hunting

[Trasher]

Bushman,

 

When my PKM project is finished, the next is a Mk23 transplanted into a semi-auto rifle. I also thought about doing the same with a gas BA rifle with a double action trigger (or something like that) added...

[terrorist killer]

AEG snipers?

 

No unless it's semi auto in real life e.g. PSG1 or light fifty

 

And if anyone wants to put marushin desert eagle internals into a rifle and then make a custom 8mm barrel, I'd proudly buy it

[lewis hiscock]

um TK you forgot the m14 which is probably the main contender for an AEG sniper base due to its excellent hop unit.

 

and BTW a light .50 is useless for skirmishing, as ive found out the hard way having almost finished mine.

will probly never see a skirmish as its just to big and to heavy.

[RSM]

FWIW next week I am due to go to a 100m outdoor range with my recent built M4 based semi auto sniper, I'll post back once I get the power output sorted, turns out I need an M140 not an M120.

 

I was using a prebuilt air brake piston head and I swear the muzzle report apart from a split second of motor noise was comparable to a spring L96 (I have one to compare), I accidentally broke the thing and the thing is noisy as anything now.

 

In case anyones interested its an ICS M4 with Systema hop rubber, black big out H nub, PDI 520mm 6.01mm. Well shimmed Prom. Triple Torque Helical gears and a G+P M160 which produces very little gear noise, the most noise being from the anti reversal latch clanking over, with the M120 its kicking out 420fps, I intend on running it up to 440fps hop off, and hoping to bring it down to 425ish with .2s once I have the hop set for .28s. I'm aiming for 60m effective range, I'll report back what I actually achieve.

[Boltrig]

Im not sure if its like this at other sites or if this has been mentioned before in the thread, but my site groups single shot AEGs in with full auto AEGs. Im guessin is because you could discharge the mag as fast as you can pull the trigger meaning you could pepper the target with high velocity beebs.

 

if that wasnt the case Id look at a PSG1 but since its not itll be a bolt action if anything.

[Richwatts2002]

ok gonna put my views this.

 

1st the issue of ammo: there is nothing stopping the dedicated marksman (im not gonna use the term sniper here as i agree that the term sniper cannot really be used in the true sense for airsoft) from buying a bag of high grade BBs & hand selecting & hand loading his mags, speed loading a mag used for "sniper" rifles can cause problems with dammage to the ammo & can also lead to stacking problems. when i say hand selecting i mean setting up a simple system of checking the roundness of the bb, this can be done by using a piece of board on an angle with 2 parralel lines drawn on to determine if a bb is flawed or not, simpl release bb at top of board if it runs true its good if it deviates use for bulk ammo! secondly weigh your selected ammo to get the highest ammount of consistency in weight then hand load your mags & mark the ones which are specially set up.

 

i know this may sound extreme but if you are going for accuracy then this is a good first step.

 

2nd on the subject of BA vs SA: I use both a BA & A SA rifle & i love the challenge of both different rifles as they are 2 different entities.

 

my BA is a maruzen type96 fireing at 500fps with .20 (i use .30 with it as the higher weight is way better for accuracy) this rifle is great to shoot & is very accurate but does need a bit of work to get it to how i want it!

 

my SA rifle is a SPR, this rifle is my major project as i have set a challenge to myself to get it to fire as accurate & consistant as is humanly possible, i agree with the views of some on here that AEG are alot harde to get the same sort of consistency but why all the sarcastic comments when sombody tries to make a point that it IS possible to get an AEG up to very high levels of accuracy & consistency?

 

on the view of a AEG being to bulky or heavy i tend to dissagree with this comment (yes i know the VSR is a VERY light rifle & very easy to handle) when you look at the real steel world which our rifles are meant to mirror the VSR is extremely innacurate & would real world snipers use SA rifles if they wernt effective? hell even the 50 cal rifles used around the world & hold the record for the longest confirmed kill are 90% semi auto arent they?

 

i have shot real rifles & won competitions in shooting so i know that alot is down to the individual shooter & if you dont know how to place a shot then you are ultimatly doomed to fail.

 

so in conclusion both BA & SA have their place in this sport & it is down to personal choice & you should NOT have a go at someone for choosing one over the other!

 

good shooting people!

 

[Gerkahn]

Can see where you are going with that but as as a side note it was a McMillan TAC-50 that made the longest confirmed kill and its a bolt action, chambered for .50 bmg.

 

Also im still backing the bolt actions on this one, there are just far more moving parts in an aeg when you fire a round, not forgetting that when you pull the trigger on a bolt action you've got the piston moving immediately in comparison to most aegs where all the action starts happening momentarily later, allowing more chance for it to be interrupted by external factors, movement of you firing etc etc.

[Richwatts2002]

Can see where you are going with that but as as a side note it was a McMillan TAC-50 that made the longest confirmed kill and its a bolt action, chambered for .50 bmg.

 

Also im still backing the bolt actions on this one, there are just far more moving parts in an aeg when you fire a round, not forgetting that when you pull the trigger on a bolt action you've got the piston moving immediately in comparison to most aegs where all the action starts happening momentarily later, allowing more chance for it to be interrupted by external factors, movement of you firing etc etc.

 

ok i concede to your greater knowledge .50 cal shot, thought it had recently been taken by a SA unit. fair do's!

 

i totally agree with you about the amount of moving parts 7 trigger lag on AEGs the point i was trying to make is that it IS possible to make a very highly accurate, consistant & reliable AEG sniper unit.

 

i will keep trying until i find that sweet point when everything falls into place!

 

also just as a side note about m4/m16 hop units, with the introduction of the new promethius hop chamber which has full seals around it (mag & air nozzel) they are becomeing far more reliable, & with a bit of PTFE plumpers tape around your hop rubber & point ware the barrel goes int the unit & very good air seal can be obtained & if you lock of your hop by screwing the big adjustment wheel down tight they do move very little!

[lewis hiscock]

The extra noise of an AEG is a problem whilst sniping.

since ditching my Boltie ive noticed much more reaction when i let off a round.

 

i know its been mentioned many times , just adding my thoughts.

[Richwatts2002]

The extra noise of an AEG is a problem whilst sniping.

since ditching my Boltie ive noticed much more reaction when i let off a round.

 

i know its been mentioned many times , just adding my thoughts.

 

 

its a valid point! though i am surprised at how quiet my spr is with its silencer! combine this with silenced heads & you would be hard pressed to pick it out in the heat of a skirmish!

 

i tend to play as long range support for the assault team to keep the heads of the deffending team down & this is ware a SA rifle does come into its element! it is also a great addition to a sniper team combined with a bolty! me & my bro are setting up as a marksman/recon unit for our team & in a crunch situation having the capacity to put rounds down range in quick sucession has saved our bacon on numerous occaisions!

[epicdoom]

Richwatts you know exactly what I meant in my last post about consistancy and making sure you equipment is up to the task. I did say in that post maybe not directly that our equipment isnt such as to support a reliable shot after shot pin point sniper platform. There are many veriables But, once you do everything you can to correct those variables like weighing your bb's and hand loading your mags you take some of the issues out of the mix. Then in the final seconds it all comes down to you the shooter, you are the end result period. Did you Practice with the equipment do you know how much a 10MPH cross wind will effect your shot downrange do you know the uphill down hill shooting rules.

 

An example of this is one of the back up snipers in my unit has a bolt sniper rifle it consistantly shoots off the the right this guy can shoot that gun and hit things just as good as I can and I'm a pin point type of person. He refuses to correct the issues the gun has stating that he has many hours of practice with his gun shooting that way and he has no desire to mess with the gun. He shoots iron sight and because he practices with his eqipment he knows it very well hold over,under,right and left he makes it look easy everytime. He takes the time to weigh his BB's out But his gun is lacking he still manages to pull off the shot Why? Because he knows his equipment in the end he has to make that shot. Knowing your gear and how it will perform under all conditions makes for some mighty fine shooting but only if the shooter knows how to use it.

 

I have moved over to a bolt action rifle for sniping But I still use my AEG from time to time. well hidden and well timed shots have kept me from being detected even tho the gun is louder than my bolt rifle.

 

 

Doom

[Richwatts2002]

Richwatts you know exactly what I meant in my last post about consistancy and making sure you equipment is up to the task. I did say in that post maybe not directly that our equipment isnt such as to support a reliable shot after shot pin point sniper platform. There are many veriables But, once you do everything you can to correct those variables like weighing your bb's and hand loading your mags you take some of the issues out of the mix. Then in the final seconds it all comes down to you the shooter, you are the end result period. Did you Practice with the equipment do you know how much a 10MPH cross wind will effect your shot downrange do you know the uphill down hill shooting rules.

 

An example of this is one of the back up snipers in my unit has a bolt sniper rifle it consistantly shoots off the the right this guy can shoot that gun and hit things just as good as I can and I'm a pin point type of person. He refuses to correct the issues the gun has stating that he has many hours of practice with his gun shooting that way and he has no desire to mess with the gun. He shoots iron sight and because he practices with his eqipment he knows it very well hold over,under,right and left he makes it look easy everytime. He takes the time to weigh his BB's out But his gun is lacking he still manages to pull off the shot Why? Because he knows his equipment in the end he has to make that shot. Knowing your gear and how it will perform under all conditions makes for some mighty fine shooting but only if the shooter knows how to use it.

 

I have moved over to a bolt action rifle for sniping But I still use my AEG from time to time. well hidden and well timed shots have kept me from being detected even tho the gun is louder than my bolt rifle.

 

 

Doom

 

 

exactly the point i was trying to make!the more you can reduce variables the better all aspects will be! its good to see some very constructive comments here now!

 

the fact is i do use my bolty 90% of the time because i know i can walk up to it pick it up & know how it will perform! though this will not stop me from trying my hardest to get this level of consistency with my aeg sniper!

 

rich!

[epicdoom]

A good level of accuracy can be had with an upgraded AEG what cant be obtained from the gun has to come from the shooter. I shoot real steel pretty much every weekend during the winter and every other weekend during the summer. The Marines taught me the sniper craft and I keep my skills sharp as they serve me well in the deer hunting woods.

 

I used An AEG CA M15 to snipe with for 3 years and a Dboys M4 CQB R upgraded heavy for about 2 months after that. I now have 3 bolt rifles one that has very High FPS so its used only for sniper shootouts. I play in the woods and plant myself in briers alot so its tight quarters in there the short AEG moves through that stuff alot easier than my bolt sniper rifle. I do like the bolty alot and have been making myself use it more and more

 

 

Doom

[Richwatts2002]

A good level of accuracy can be had with an upgraded AEG what cant be obtained from the gun has to come from the shooter. I shoot real steel pretty much every weekend during the winter and every other weekend during the summer. The Marines taught me the sniper craft and I keep my skills sharp as they serve me well in the deer hunting woods.

 

I used An AEG CA M15 to snipe with for 3 years and a Dboys M4 CQB R upgraded heavy for about 2 months after that. I now have 3 bolt rifles one that has very High FPS so its used only for sniper shootouts. I play in the woods and plant myself in briers alot so its tight quarters in there the short AEG moves through that stuff alot easier than my bolt sniper rifle. I do like the bolty alot and have been making myself use it more and more

 

 

Doom

 

i think that this is the point many people are trying to make,& that is that its not an issue that AEGs CAN be made into sniper units but its that boltys in some respect force you to develop your skills as a marksman & stalker!

 

for me its never benn a question of if AEGs can or should be turned into sniper units, as all of know that YES this is more than possible!

 

foe me its a question of skill development now & certainly a bolty will give you much greater chance to develop these skills!

 

i still stand by my comment that a bolty combined with a AEG sniper makes a effective & deadly combo in the right hands!

 

what do you shoot in real steel doom? PM me if ya want!

 

Rich

[epicdoom]

I think folks get confused about AEG's for sniping it stands to reason you will use it in semi only for that purpose. I was firing while rapid fire was happening to cover my report. I would wait for my target to make that big mistake that most do popping out in the same location time after time I usualy take those guys down fast as they pop out and spray bb's

 

I have a 338 Lapua, M40A1, Dragunov SKS, Mauser K98, Mosin Nagant M91, Ak47, M4A3 CQB, M4A2 Car, 303 Brit. Jungle car. These are my Military rifles I have alot of hunting and target rifles as well I'm a designated collector 1911 Colt, springfield SD 40 Tactical 5" mod. Glock 17, Hi-Point 9mm, Walther P22 multi barrel change out also accepts silencer I been waiting a long time for the paperwork to be approved for the silencer I already payed for and tested on the gun.

 

Doom

[Hopeless]

Following this thread with interest, will let you know how the G43 performs as an AEG "sniper" once its finished and fine tuned. Unfortunately had to go the AEG route as there's simply no decent semi auto gas system, that and build constraints.

[Richwatts2002]

ok over the past few days since my last post iv been doing a LOT of research & have come to a conclusion.....

 

to build the ultimate AEG sniper the way forward will be the new systema revolution gearbox (unfortunatly only ver 2 atm).

 

these units eliminate virtually all the variables that people have a problem with in respect to all the moving parts in an AEG gearbox & are electronically fired & always return to the fully forward piston position! i look forward to seeing these units & hope systema release them post haste!

 

i for one will be shelling out for one of these regardless (hell its got to be less than the systema PTW which the concepts of these gearboxes are based on!)

 

anyway people good hunting regardless of what you use!!!

 

 

Rich

[epicdoom]

Using my Dboys M4 I have a king arms reinforced aluminum GB 7mm bearing bushings, Guarder 150 FTK, Prom. TB barrel, Shooting Matrix .3 bb's is has good distance and accuracy ran in Semi only. I can snipe with it no problem. It is loud but as stated I take my shots during all out battle or I will radio to a member to full auto a burst or 2 to cover my noise.

 

 

 

Doom

[RSM]

ok over the past few days since my last post iv been doing a LOT of research & have come to a conclusion.....

 

to build the ultimate AEG sniper the way forward will be the new systema revolution gearbox (unfortunatly only ver 2 atm).

 

these units eliminate virtually all the variables that people have a problem with in respect to all the moving parts in an AEG gearbox & are electronically fired & always return to the fully forward piston position! i look forward to seeing these units & hope systema release them post haste!

 

i for one will be shelling out for one of these regardless (hell its got to be less than the systema PTW which the concepts of these gearboxes are based on!)

 

anyway people good hunting regardless of what you use!!!

 

 

Rich

 

Not really, you can acheive the same result with a bit of electrical skill and solder in a active breaking mosfet. Even the most expensive mosfet out there is going to be 1/4 of the estimated cost of the Revolution gearbox. The only thing the revolution offers over this conversion in true sound reduction is by removing the ARL, which obviously produces noise as it ratchets however in semi this amount of noise is insignificant in comparison to the motor/gear whine.

 

To reduce AEG noise as much as possible provided you are using semi only (As you should), I've found that well greased and shimmed helical gears, a well set motor height and fitting an air brake on the piston head as well as fitting a silencer with at least 40mm of foam shrouding the barrel will set you well on your way to having a quiet AEG based sniper. Adding a ghillie wrap will further deaden the sound and then the rest is made up in sound dissipation over range.

 

My M4SRs muzzle report with air brake and the points measured above is not that much louder than a spring L96 running at 480fps for example

 

[Richwatts2002]

Not really, you can acheive the same result with a bit of electrical skill and solder in a active breaking mosfet. Even the most expensive mosfet out there is going to be 1/4 of the estimated cost of the Revolution gearbox. The only thing the revolution offers over this conversion in true sound reduction is by removing the ARL, which obviously produces noise as it ratchets however in semi this amount of noise is insignificant in comparison to the motor/gear whine.

 

To reduce AEG noise as much as possible provided you are using semi only (As you should), I've found that well greased and shimmed helical gears, a well set motor height and fitting an air brake on the piston head as well as fitting a silencer with at least 40mm of foam shrouding the barrel will set you well on your way to having a quiet AEG based sniper. Adding a ghillie wrap will further deaden the sound and then the rest is made up in sound dissipation over range.

 

My M4SRs muzzle report with air brake and the points measured above is not that much louder than a spring L96 running at 480fps for example

 

the revolution also eliminates the tappet plate from the gearbox which is a major weak point in all AEG gearboxes. i know about how much we can do to improve gearboxes but for me these units are a MAJOR step forward in the development of the technology!

[wally squad]

As a quick aside, how do you think sites would feel about using Stars L1A1 SLR at 500fps as it is semi only out of the box? (just a quick sniff around before I call a couple up)

 

Cheers

d

[RSM]

the revolution also eliminates the tappet plate from the gearbox which is a major weak point in all AEG gearboxes. i know about how much we can do to improve gearboxes but for me these units are a MAJOR step forward in the development of the technology!

 

 

How exactly is the tappet plate a weakness? It moves back and force to chamber BBs and is controlled by a nub on the sector gear, which with the installation of an AB mosfet always returns to the same position, ergo the nozzle/tappet plate is always going to be in the same position per cycle. Therefore the revolution gearbox isn't really much more than trying to get people's money for performance that can be attained with much less financial outlay with the benefit of not having to rely on proprietory parts.

 

@Wally - I think it depends really on how well you are known at the site, a member of staff at the site I normally play at was running around with one but I get the feeling it might have been a case of one rule for them and another for us in that specific case as they apparently only allow up to 400fps aeg based snipers. I personally think any rifle adequately built to be used as a sniper rifle should be allowed up to 500fps - I highly doubt the people with sufficient technical skill to build a reliable aeg sniper and want to play in that role but just without the 'hinderance' of recocking the action are going to be knobbers on the field with a high powered rifle.