Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Shriven

AEG Sniper Thread

Recommended Posts

I did a quick search on the use of AEG based serious sniper rifles, but very little came up, and certainly nothing useful.

Basically, how do you get past things like, locking issues, how do you make it as consistent as you can, recommendations for hop bits, barrels and brands!

 

The reason I make this... the temptation to build an SR-25 semi sniper is growing stronger, but if I'm going to build one, I want it to be able to sniper with it at least half way effectively!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you aren't completely set on an SR-25 then the ICS m4 is a good platform for an AEG sniper.

 

The hop itself is a barrel type hop (AUG,g36,p90 style) so it will not slip at all once it's set. Lockups are not an issue as you can use the spring release button to reset the gearbox. Quick access upper gearbox lets you change the spring to suit different sites. Put on a one peice outer barrel, shimmed tight, and barrel wobble is zero.

 

It's a nice place to start for an AEG with a similar layout to the SR-25 :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unfortunately, the rule at my local is it has to be vetted by the site owner... so no M4 snipers or P90 snipers here! I am pretty much set on an SR-25. I was wondering if a mosfet w/ ab and a "realism" circuit ( the ones that precock/only fire one BB per trigger pull no matter what) would bypass the lock up.

I see that H nubs and guarder clear rubbers, and systema or KA hop units are popular.. but do they cope well with the high fps/heavy BBs?

Barrel wise i've heard good things about Madbull... but is it good enough for sniping?

I'm happy to spend about £500 on making it a proper tool.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you want to avoid lockup, there are some intelligent FETs out there. Given some inventive programing and mechanics, it could be possible to entirely eliminate the possibility of semi auto lock. Some of the other members will know more than me on that matter. Just throwing it out there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

An easy way to avoid lock ups is often ignored: When you pull the trigger, let the action complete before trying to pull the trigger again.

It'll mean no quick double taps but it'll do the job and still give you a much faster cycle rate than a bolt action rifle.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've spent a fair bit building my ICS M16 based DMR (foretunately the exchange was good and I got the M16 second hand in near as new condition) which didn't cost that much over a tricked out Type 96 or AW338 out of the box.

 

Anyway, here were my findings.

 

Internal set up 1:

Gearbox: Systema Turbo, Prometheus Triple Torque up gears, metal bushings, G&P trigger switch, Extreme-Fire AB Long mosfet...stock ICS wiring.

Upper gearbox: Guarder bearing spring guide, Area1000 POM bearing piston head, Guarder M140, G&P polyacetal piston, Guarder cylinder head, Area 1000 full capacity cylinder. Guarder nozzle.

Hop: Guarder 70 degree hardness rubber, Big Out white H nub, PDI 520mm 6.01mm

FPS 530fps +/- 4. (hop off)

Ammunition: Xtreme .3 and G&G .28s.

 

In testing I found that beyond 40m the BBs would go anywhere, I think its partly down to the FPS variance, the relatively light BB weight compared to the power and the 6.01 being too tight.

 

So round came the second iteration:

 

Gearbox: G&P M160 motor, stock ratio CA bevel and spur gears, G&G L85 Sector gear, everything else as before.

Upper gearbox: As above but removed bearing piston head, changed spring to Guarder M160 as I installed a cylinder head stacker to correct angle of engagement which reduces the overall air volume in the cylinder a bit. I also bonded the tappet and nozzle together.

Hop: As above but changed down to a Prometheus 6.03mm 455mm barrel.

Power: 490fps hop off, FPS variation dropped to +/- 2.5 as outliers found every half dozen shots or so, over the chrono the FPS variance typically reads as 488.8, 488.1, 488.9, 488.3, 487.8 and so on

Ammo: SGM .29

 

Had to get a large 8.4v instead of 9.6 for the second set up because the G&P M160 motor had so much oomph on the higher voltage it double fired.

 

Now, the two biggest changes I made were the use of precocking gears and installing the shorter looser tightbore. I'll explain the latter first in that I saw all the VSR users in a majority seem to favour the 430mm length inner barrel so I thought I would find the closest thing, talking to a member well versed in the nuances of the VSR he said that he found that 555mm barrels were actually worse and that the happy medium existed around 480mm...so 455 seemed a good choice.

 

Now, the reason for converting to precocking was that in trying to increase FPS consistency I considered the mechanical operation of a bolt action rifle in that at the point of the trigger being pulled, only the piston is moving, in an AEG firing cycle many more things are moving before the piston, the action is considerably more violent.

 

So, I theorised that if you could make an AEG act like a bolt action in that the piston would fly forward first, then get picked up by the gears and have them move the tappet to chamber another round then FPS consistency should improve...which it did. Incidentally, the PSG-1 on my team has been recorded as having an FPS variance of 1.7 tops, that is to say it fired at barely +/- 1fps.

 

Only issues are that to load the rifle from the decompressed state you need to put the mag on and pull the trigger, precocking the system and chambering a BB. When the mag runs dry I find it best to hit the spring release, insert the new mag and precock again as its relatively quieter than dry firing to reload. If I choose do fire 'rapid' (which iirc is defined as 3 aimed shots in 10 seconds as opposed to 'deliberate' being 1 shot every 6 seconds) then I can fire as fast as anyone would want to in a sniping situation.

 

It would be brilliant to fit some sort of sensor to the spring guide and cocking handle so that after I operate the spring release to let the nozzle go forward on an empty chamber, I put a new mag on and rack the cocking handle, the spring guide sensor sends a signal to the mosfet to make it fire the AEG...of course as I've said before, this would only precock the AEG and make the gun a little more realistic in operation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm.. so you've made it mechanically pre cock by using a the G&G Sector gear? Do you find the trigger response fast enough on the 8.4v w/mosfet?

The set-up I was looking at involved an intelligent mosfet and perhaps a Lipo to give me the triggerpullbam response.

And hard rubbers and H nubs are the way to go then?

I'd be interested to see if anyone else has had issues with the barrel being " too tight" and causing fliers in AEG snipers. I'll probably be using the Madbull .36s or .40s.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I did a quick search on the use of AEG based serious sniper rifles, but very little came up, and certainly nothing useful.

Basically, how do you get past things like, locking issues, how do you make it as consistent as you can, recommendations for hop bits, barrels and brands!

 

The reason I make this... the temptation to build an SR-25 semi sniper is growing stronger, but if I'm going to build one, I want it to be able to sniper with it at least half way effectively!

 

Locking Issues

-------------------------------------------

The best way to get past this is to have a good motor, appropriate gear ratio and a well built gearbox. The only time it would lock up is on a low battery so a good battery is required. Basically you should be looking at a Systema Magnum, G&P M160, Turbo3k, or Guarder IFTU motor. The main issue is the trigger response issue. You can go about it with the pre cocking method (either by mechanical or via MOSFET) or you can get a rediculous motor like the ones above. As to proper gear ratios: At one point I had a CA M14 with Systema Magnum and torque up gears pulling an M150 at around 18 RPS. Not terribly bad! The magnum is a rediculous motor. With some simple mods I would bet it would easily pull that M150 on a stock ratio gearset and an 11.1v LiPo and not have issues. Depending on the motor, Torque up Gears are probably excessive for an SP150 spring. The well built gearbox is going to be the MAJOR issue. A V2 gearbox is a horrid for high FPS applications, so if you go the SR25 route get one with the SR25 gearbox and not one with the standard V2 GB. The SR25 is a decent platform but the hop up leaves ALOT to be desired. Starting with an ICS M16 is a good idea, use VN Magazines and use the M16 set up and it can easily be used as a sniper platform. The Gearbox is nonstandard and much more reinforced then a standard V2. The other features make it a superb platform.

 

Consistency

-------------------------------------------

Consistency is achieved by using parts that match (similiar brand) and a good install. A MOSFET is almost a requirement (Almost, I'll show why later). The AB MOSFET is going to stop the gun in the same spot each time and provide you with the most consistency. Thats FPS variation. A good hop up rubber, H nub, hop up unit and a good tightbore are required for shot to shot consistency. The other thing is going to be the shooter! You need to pull that trigger back all the way, every time the same way every time, otherwise your gun doesnt turn over fast enough each time to be consistent. It may not make sense now but it will later!

 

Sniper vs DMR

--------------------------------------------

I've never played at your field, or nor do I know your rules (and I unfortunately probably will never!) However there are some things to consider. Minimum engagement distances, primarily affect what FPS you should chose. For my local rules, anything above 500 has a HUGE MED (100ft). Our terrain, which is mostly dense forest, 120ft is the average engagement distance and below so that leaves me with 20ft of targets to work with if I go above 500 fps. Not the smartest choice! However, if I stick to around 430-450 I still have an advantage and my MED is only 50ft! Now I have 70ft of targets to chose from! At this point you have to wonder if it was worth going above that FPS? Yeah it is, I outrange a good number of peeps on our field and have killer accuracy. As to DMR/Sniper, what do you do more? Sit and recon or hang with a squad? That will also play into the gun you chose. Recon needs to be light and fast as well as relativly quiet (something that AR15's are not well known for in airsoft) where as DMR's are allowed to be a bit heavier to stay with their squad and still be effective.

 

Final Notes

--------------------------------------------

You may find that an SR25 is less than ideal for you. As I stated it's going to require some serious work, both with the gun you chose and yourself. I highly recommend you consider another platform other than the SR25 as the base as I feel you will find the work less laborious and more fun. For me a stock G&G M14 Veteran exceeded my needs All I have done to that gun is replace the hop up rubber, nub, and put a tightbore in it and I hit 383 fps +/-2 FPS w/ AE .25's without ever opening the GB. FPS is a huge deal, the ideal FPS for a bb is about 380 FPS regardless of weight. So you want to aim for that FPS with the given weight bb you want to use!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for that Peackeeper! I believe the A&K SR-25 uses the long gearbox, and I've found my King Arms hop unit to actually be tough to change... their is ZERO movement in the hop dial, so perhaps I'll base it off that.

I'm fairly clued up on the rules for my local... as I work there :P

So lockup can be avoided my simply completing the cycle properly? Should be pretty damn easy with a big motor and a good battery and a intelligent mosfet!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thanks for that Peackeeper! I believe the A&K SR-25 uses the long gearbox, and I've found my King Arms hop unit to actually be tough to change... their is ZERO movement in the hop dial, so perhaps I'll base it off that.

I'm fairly clued up on the rules for my local... as I work there :P

So lockup can be avoided my simply completing the cycle properly? Should be pretty damn easy with a big motor and a good battery and a intelligent mosfet!

 

That is correct provided everything else in the GB is done correctly. You cant expect a high FPS set up to turn over very easily if the motor height is wrong or the shimming way too tight. The AB mosfet is a requirement and the computerized ones would be best. I HIGHLY recommend the EF SW-Evolution. Get the basic one not the semi only one and use the semi/semi mode for the fire selector. Reasonbeing: Should the gearbox lock up with the cut off lever engaged you have NO way of fixing it without popping the ARL. Ein bichien problem! With the standard one you can pull battery, reset the FET to safe/semi/auto pop it in auto and unlock the GB.

 

For this reason the ICS would be the best candidate for a semi auto forced (via the computer or mechanical) because of the ARL release should you want the cheapest route and a solid gun as it comes with basically everything except the spring and a few other parts to make a good high FPS gun. I'm not very well educated in the SR25's gearbox but if it doesnt have an easy way to trip the ARL to fix the issue you will want the Evolution basic model. If it does then you can get his custom Sniper AEG set up.

 

It's good you know your field rules, that plays a huge part in determining how far you should go. In the example I gave of my area it's obvious as to why I chose to keep my G&G M14 Veteran stock at it's 430 fps w/ .20's rather than push to a higher FPS. BB stability becomes a huge issue which is why I mentioned keeping the BB's FPS (regardless of what weight) at around 380 FPS.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hmm.. so you've made it mechanically pre cock by using a the G&G Sector gear? Do you find the trigger response fast enough on the 8.4v w/mosfet?

The set-up I was looking at involved an intelligent mosfet and perhaps a Lipo to give me the triggerpullbam response.

And hard rubbers and H nubs are the way to go then?

I'd be interested to see if anyone else has had issues with the barrel being " too tight" and causing fliers in AEG snipers. I'll probably be using the Madbull .36s or .40s.

 

 

Trigger response is literally instant, as soon as the circuit is closed the sector gear only has to rotate a few degrees to release the piston, the G&P M160 motor has so much torque to it that you have to use an 8.4v pack with a high discharge rate as with a 9.6v 2200mah pack even with active breaking I was overspinning the motor.

 

My reasoning on 6.03 being better than 6.01 is that it was mentioned a fair bit in the bolty threads that some people found that accuracy in fact improved when going to looser bores after having bought 6.01s. There is also a direct comparison of a 6.01vs 6.03 in a pistol somewhere on the forum and the 6.03 yielded better results.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So:

Good quality 6.03, solid hop with H nub, hard rubber, strong motor, good quality spring, and assembling the gearbox perfectly, an AB programmable MOSFET, and perhaps a Lipo. Shim the barrel properly as well. Get BBs which are a good quality and consistent weight and size ( thank you very much, denizens of snipers haven for the threads on this!), and that will go at approx 380. Then zero the beggar properly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I ran my Marui G3 on a similar set up to the one you're looking at, (minus the Mosfet whatever one of those is, I shall use the book of search shortly), very successfully at TA2 & 3, and around Urban Assault as well, when it's set nicely you'll scare the bejesus out of bolties when they think they have the drop on you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I bought the A&K SR-25 not that long ago.

 

I bought it to use as a sniper, and at my last game performed brilliantly!

 

I easily hit a fellow player at roughly 230-250ft (cant say I'm great at estimating :P) and got a headshot! with the gun stock! other than a minor ajustment to take off full auto.

 

The only downside to this gun is it has a noisy gear box :(

 

heres a couple pics of it...

 

 

13022009030.jpg

 

13022009031.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll echo the "barrel less than 500mm is better" sentiment. I used to own an AICS with a 555mm first factory barrel and wasn't impressed by the performance increase. On changing to a shorter outer barrel I cut the inner down to match and the consistency improved noticably :) because of this, i've chosen a SPR outer barrel for my in-progress DMR build, allowing me to install a 455mm barrel.

 

As far as i'm aware, there doesn't yet exist an "off-the-shelf" MOSFET that can do pre-cocking. One of the more ingenious forum members has built and a unit based on the SW and programmed it to receive an input from a sensor in the spring guide in order do pre-cocking.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just something I've built for the summer bank holiday game at fireball (posted on another forum but thought it somewhere near relavent here ;) )

 

http://airsoftsniper.proboards107.com/inde...&thread=781

 

My other SASS weapon is a G&G MK14 EBR, it uses a 6.03 Madbull barrel, solid hop bucking (AUG style hop) Guarder black rubber, Systema Helical Super Torque gears and an M120 spring, I have fitted a 12volt relay as opposed to a mosfet (because I had one floating round the garage and the space to fit it ;) ) and run it on a 9.6v battery. Trigger response is almost instant considering the gear ratio, it has never locked on me, though not a problem as its a 2nd generation GB so came with a spring release, unlike the newer versions, and has acccuracy comparable to my VSR when it has its 120 spring in (400fps), and looks abit like this ( though its had some lower scope mounts fitted since)

 

referencepics211.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

banjo;

 

can you show us how you cut down the hicap? I've been looking for a "10 round" style M14 mag

 

and you taped the battery to the stock rails? I was thinking of something like that (my ebr is running on a mini 9.6v) I was going to make an elastic "sleeve" between the rails.

 

Jim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
banjo;

 

can you show us how you cut down the hicap? I've been looking for a "10 round" style M14 mag

 

and you taped the battery to the stock rails? I was thinking of something like that (my ebr is running on a mini 9.6v) I was going to make an elastic "sleeve" between the rails.

 

Jim

 

I think this might be a thread hijack...... but anyway.....

 

I didin't think to take photos while I was doing it, but its quite easy to do with a hack saw and a dremel. I have seen someone else do a stumpy mag conversion somewhere, I only found it after I'd done mine, I just cant think where now.

 

The mag as you see it is basicaly the shortest you can make it because of the limitations of the winding mech. Start by gutting the mag and chopping the top feed tube/loading door off the internals then cut the stubbs of the winding mech. Now you have to join the top to the bottom and, using the dremel with a small grinding wheel, marry the to feed tubes up so they allow bbs to feed freely, because when you put the 2 halves together the feed tubes will be slightly off set. When you reassemble the parts just drop some bbs into the mech and wind it like you normally would to make sure it all works and feeds properly. Next place the joined winding mech onto the outer shell with the top in the correct position and mark the case so as to be able to cut the bottom off the shell. Get a hacksaw out and cut the case off. Temperarily reassemble and check fit and that it still feeds. When happy glue it all together :D It holds near enough exactly 140 rounds, and is alot more user friendly, not being so long an' all ;)

 

The battery was just a simple way to cure a problem of powering it. I cant even fit minis in the front stock for 2 reasons 1) the mini 9.6s I have havn't got the balls to pull the M120 spring because they've seen better days and 2) theres realy only just enough space for them in the fore stock, because this is where the relay is, but when I have the time/money/inclanation I'll buy some LiPos to put in it and i'll also invest in a MOSFET ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

both those guns look wicked,

I was considering an AEG m14 as a marksman/sniper weapon but the sr25 looks wicked in that picture...how noisy is the gearbox on it?

Still thinking Im gonna go with a bolt action :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1, Unfortunately, the rule at my local is it has to be vetted by the site owner... so no M4 snipers or P90 snipers here!

 

2, Barrel wise i've heard good things about Madbull... but is it good enough for sniping?

 

3, I'm happy to spend about £500 on making it a proper tool.

1, So, what stuff will he allow?

 

2, Yup, the mb's are great.

 

3, Depending on what you are allowed & the fps, £500 should be more than enough: Try a CA M14, drop in a MB barrel & hop. Re-wire including mosfet & deans. On semi only, the stock internals will easily support upto a 150 spring (well over 400fps). If you must, an 11.1v lipo & Systema Magnum (M130 & over). Either way you will look the part & have a fairly good electro-sniper, under budget (£400?)for very little work. Trigger lag will be next to nothing & it is likely to last for ever. Accuracy ain't bad & range will be dependent on fps. Around 400(M120 or M130) should get you 12" groups at 60m with Guarder High Precision Made .28's or the ubiquitous (& way more expensive) SGM .29's. Disabling the full auto is simple on this gun, as the selector is via an internal transfer bar, which can simply be removed.

 

 

Greg.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Allows M14s, SR25 ( and K's, controversially), AUG's, SVD, PSG-1, M82. It has to be locked to semi one way or another, in a way that the site armourer is happy with.

So far, I'm looking at an A&K SR25, a replica RIS harris bipod, an M3 replica and replica Knights style mount for it, a Systema Magnum, an SW-Evolution, Madbull 6.03 509mm, and I'm considering getting an 11.1 lipo.King Arms hop unit, with a H nub. Then I'll be feeding it Madbull .36g or .40g Beebs.

 

Then it's just finding some non hicap mags for it!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pretty sure your going to regret that decision. The SR might look nice and be a DM/Sniper rifle in the real world but in the airsoft world its just another AEG :unsure: You really need to be looking at guns that have a spring release built into them, as when the SR locks on you, and believe me it will, you will have to strip the thing to trip the ARL. Its the main reason I down graded my SPR that was running at 410fps. I used it twice once at our local site and once at Free Fire Zone it locked up 3 times on each occasion and had to be field stripped each time to, buy dinner time I'd had enough and went out with my VSR on both occasions. It now runs at 345fps and is fully auto capable, I never use full auto during game play only when it locks up to free it, as soon as its free straight back to semi, thankfully it doesn't happen often now ;) My EBR is a second generation G&G gearbox so came with a spring release, a thing I believe they have now dropped from the range, but like I stated above, if/when it locks a quick twist of the fire selector and your back to shooting the fuzzy wuzzies :D

 

B

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I spoke to the site owner, and he's happy with the fancy MOSFET doing the semi only work properly. Means if/when it locks up, I can just reset the gun, unlock it, then put it back to semi only. And the guy above was saying that as long as it completes a cycle fully ( which with a magnum, lipo and mosfet shouldn't be a problem) it won't lock up... or is this fallacy?

 

This is all entirely theory btw. I've got three choices for my next student loan... pimped SR-25 sniper, WE M4, or Sordins and tweaks for current kit and guns. Just conducting research, and if it helps other people along the way, then wahey :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and the use of session cookies.