TSI Tavor Update

[TSI Armories]

Somehow, some of you have missed me mentioning earlier the fact that "customer X" WAS offered a replacement, but didn't respond back.

 

 

[galactica]

you don't seem to be responding to any of the allegations about build quality, or re-assuring your potential customers though. Why is that?

 

The box he got it in wasn't fake was it? It was terrible packaging.

 

Why is his a lemon? Is your QC under-par? Or did he make it all creaky and shiny himself?

 

You have a PR job to do and you're not doing it. The fact that you say he hasn't asked for a replacement yet is completely by-the-by.

[Amoki]

The box he got it in wasn't fake was it? It was terrible packaging.

 

I for one fail to see how packaging even an issue when it got the job done, and when packaging just ends up in the bin after unboxing (I've thrown away some really nice packaging from ICS and G&G...) . No one actually knows whether the selector was damaged during transportation due to rough handling or the packaging is at fault. Judging by how there is only 1 complaint of broken selector thus far, I am quite inclined with the former

 

 

 

But certainly would like to know how a bad lemon as such slipped through the Net... or how likely is this going to happen again.

[galactica]

I for one fail to see how packaging even an issue when it got the job done, and when packaging just ends up in the bin after unboxing (I've thrown away some really nice packaging from ICS and G&G...) . No one actually knows whether the selector was damaged during transportation due to rough handling or the packaging is at fault. Judging by how there is only 1 complaint of broken selector thus far, I am quite inclined with the former

 

 

 

But certainly would like to know how a bad lemon as such slipped through the Net... or how likely is this going to happen again.

 

Uh....if the packaging was adequate, no part of the gun would be damaged during transportation. That's the point of packaging.

 

There's only one complaint of a broken selector out of...how many guns? 4? 5? It's bad odds.

 

Wow, this thread is like wading through a field of zombies.

[Amoki]

Uh....if the packaging was adequate, no part of the gun would be damaged during transportation. That's the point of packaging.

 

People have been sending guitars in guitar cases the best money and airline/postal workers would still manage to find a way to break them. Unless you expect them to ship these AEGS in 10 rolls of bubble-wrap complete with sponge, shock absorbing springs, and titanium casing arguing over packaging is pointless when you don't even know how that selector was broken in the first place and who was responsible for it.

 

There's only one complaint of a broken selector out of...how many guns? 4? 5? It's bad odds.

 

Since when does Arnies represent the whole population of airsofters in the world?

 

Wow, this thread is like wading through a field of zombies.

Keep that chainsaw dandy just in case we maw your ego to death.

 

 

I'll say some of the criticisms and queries over the TSI Tavor is legitimate and, as a paying customer, I'll like to see Guy address them esp. the creaky furniture. But some of the other comments and complaints here are beyond reason.

[The Saint]

I for one fail to see how packaging even an issue when it got the job done, and when packaging just ends up in the bin after unboxing (I've thrown away some really nice packaging from ICS and G&G...) . No one actually knows whether the selector was damaged during transportation due to rough handling or the packaging is at fault. Judging by how there is only 1 complaint of broken selector thus far, I am quite inclined with the former

 

I brought up the packing issue, not the external packaging issue. No sensible person would care less what's on the outside of the box, and I'm personally a fan of minimalist external box markings.

 

However, it looks to me that the way the TSI TAR21 is currently packed leave a lot of room for movement between the gun and its styrofoam shell (especially vertically). As a fellow (former, in my case) G&G product owner, Amoki, I think you're familiar with the steps even G&G (by no means a self-proclaimed boutique-end company) takes to ensure that its guns are secured inside its box.

 

And it doesn't take much, I'm sure a few generous handfuls packing peanuts over the top would go a long way for TSI. A simple and sensible precaution when intending to ship guns domestically (postal sorting involves throwing packages of all sizes), much less internationally. Yes, postal workers can break just about anything, but that's no excuse not to safeguard against that likelihood in a reasonable manner.

 

Just offering my constructive criticism.

[bknewcomb]

you don't seem to be responding to any of the allegations about build quality, or re-assuring your potential customers though. Why is that?

 

 

Here ya go....

 

 

4. I challenge each and every one of you - get one of our guns to replicate the "issues" that are shown in the kid's video, and you will get it for free.

[bknewcomb]

However, it looks to me that the way the TSI TAR21 is currently packed leave a lot of room for movement between the gun and its styrofoam shell (especially vertically).

 

 

Mine was fairly tight. When I over-excitedly handled the package for the first time, I didn't feel any shifting inside. Of course that doesn't help with dropping, slamming, kicking, baseball bats, or nuclear warfare....the usual suspects. No one knows why the reviewers gun broke.

I 'think' the package is adequate, but I could be wrong. It's a short trip from Cali to Washington. Less time and less handling.

[papi808]

Got my notification tonight from UPS. I live in Hawaii so I'll get it on Monday or Tuesday- things tend to move slow once they hit the island. I'll do a review on the gun as well as a comparison against and Ares tavor. The only down side will be that the Ares has been upgraded by the local airsoft shop E-Powersports so is shooting a little harder 420fps I believe. But I'm gonna get info from them on what they did and how easy it was to work on. May also have them open mine up as well to get their take on the internals. Will keep you guys posted. I know there's a lot of negativity on this gun right now- seems like ther always is when something new comes out- but I'm still looking forward to getting this bad boy and checking it out.

[Amoki]

However, it looks to me that the way the TSI TAR21 is currently packed leave a lot of room for movement between the gun and its styrofoam shell (especially vertically). As a fellow (former, in my case) G&G product owner, Amoki, I think you're familiar with the steps even G&G (by no means a self-proclaimed boutique-end company) takes to ensure that its guns are secured inside its box.

 

The way the packaging looks for me (bear in mind this is all from a youtube video lol), is that there isn't much room at all for lateral movement and a bit of room for vertical movement (a bit up and down, no side ways movement). While this isn't the sort of form-fitting packaging that G&G and ICS use, I personally believe that the selector catch had been impacted so hard against something like concrete, that the selector switch simply basically fracture off rather than denting the polystyrene layer like it should. And if this were the case, I suspect your average G&G and ICS style packaging would not have saved it.

 

But having said all this, I personally would like to see a few air-packs or bubble wrap to basically buffer the Tavor a bit for impact during shipping. I doubt people from Croatia or Hungary would be happy were they to receive a borked selector switch when bubble wrap and air-packs are crazily cheap. It may or may not prevent another fracture, but at least it is a preventative step.

 

 

In the meantime, I would love to see the review of the following:

1) internals: the gears in paritcular could tell us plenty about the origins of that mechbox

2) Accuracy: a grouping test at range would be very nice.

3) hop-up unit and hop-up rubber.

 

Got my notification tonight from UPS. I live in Hawaii so I'll get it on Monday or Tuesday- things tend to move slow once they hit the island. I'll do a review on the gun as well as a comparison against and Ares tavor. The only down side will be that the Ares has been upgraded by the local airsoft shop E-Powersports so is shooting a little harder 420fps I believe. But I'm gonna get info from them on what they did and how easy it was to work on. May also have them open mine up as well to get their take on the internals. Will keep you guys posted. I know there's a lot of negativity on this gun right now- seems like ther always is when something new comes out- but I'm still looking forward to getting this bad boy and checking it out.

 

 

When did you order yours?

[Neno]

I doubt people from Croatia or Hungary would be happy were they to receive a borked selector switch when bubble wrap and air-packs are crazily cheap. It may or may not prevent another fracture, but at least it is a preventative step.

 

let's hope so.Really I don't care about this video and stupid posts against Guy and TSI. How many people has read this topic before video?

Ten,maybe fifteen and look now this gang of angry people who didn't pre-order Tar.

[Bishamon Tiger]

I'll do a review on the gun as well as a comparison against and Ares tavor.

 

That's the money shot. The 'too small' Tavor versus the 'too big' Tavor.

 

[galactica]

Here ya go....

 

Right, so his best efforts to refute these allegations involve ponying up $600 for one?

 

I don't think i've smoked enough crack today to be ordering an ACM gearbox and a microcontroller inside some questionable bodywork and packaging, so I reckon i'll decline.

[bbstriker]

That's the money shot. The 'too small' Tavor versus the 'too big' Tavor.

 

Come on, lets not live in denial here about the huge size difference between TSI Tavor and the RS and the enormous difference between ARES and TSI Tavor build quality. The Ares TAVOR is far far closer to the RS than the TSI Version in size and proportions. Also, currently the TSI Tavor build quality does not come close to the ARES. Why don't TSI produce their own sales video with detailed description and take down of their product? That would go some way to dispel the terrible image so far of their Tavor.

 

The Ares Tavor is built from non-shine, non creaking Nylon Polymer and Aluminium- it is a rock solid and well balanced replica matching the RS weight. You need to get a measuring tape to really spot any difference in size between Ares TAVOR and the RS- we are talking about 1 cm (or fractionally more depending on flash hider you are using) end to end and the proportions are spot on.

 

The TSI TAVOR on the other hand is visibly and monstorously off the scale and disproportionate compared to the RS- no need to get the tape measure out. Just one glance at the TSI version and you can tell there's a huge difference.

 

TSI have got a long way to go to match the ARES version in build quality and proportions- I have to agree with Gallatica here. I just want a professional training weapon class TAVOR with an upgrade path to GBB- I hope TSI step up to the mark (with a 'version 2" ) because as far as I'm aware ARES have no intention of producing a TAVOR with MOSFET electronics or an upgrade path to GBB.

[Bishamon Tiger]

I was ironizing.

[bbstriker]

I was ironizing.

Sorry, it was lost on me

 

 

[Amoki]

[

The TSI TAVOR on the other hand is visibly and monstorously off the scale and disproportionate compared to the RS- no need to get the tape measure out. Just one glance at the TSI version and you can tell there's a huge difference.

 

So tell me, does this magical glance of yours work in horse-betting too? Because no one has put a TSI Tavor and a real steel Tavor side-by-side, and yet you somehow, just somehow, *know* there is a huge difference and monstrously off the scale. Even though TSI has already penned down on paper saying that their CTAR is 640mm and length-wise is to scale as the real one gets.

 

In the event you do possess this magical glance, I would love to be your friend, and take you out betting once in a while. We could be rich.

[bbstriker]

So tell me, does this magical glance of yours work in horse-betting too? Because no one has put a TSI Tavor and a real steel Tavor side-by-side, and yet you somehow, just somehow, *know* there is a huge difference.

Firstly, much has been made of the fact that TSI has access to Tavor design docs- at least in respect of precise dimensions. Secondly empirical comparisons using photos clearly show size difference and disproportions. The TSI is visibly out from the RS, precisely how much will no doubt be revealed in the near future.

 

If you can't see what clearly a vast majority do see, then you obviously need to get those precise size deltas when that information is released.

 

Furthermore, if at a glance and/or casual viewing of the TSI and RS from pictures and videos reveals obvious size and proportion differences as opposed to differences determined through precise measurement, then it is not unreasonable to assert that such clearly and plainly obvious differences are indeed 'huge' in context of a so-called 'replica.'

 

BTW- I would not bet a donkey against a horse as the size, strength and athletic difference is very clear. I don't need a measuring tape nor do I need to insist they they stand side by side.

[Bishamon Tiger]

You only have to go back to the pics BK posted, comparing his M4 and Tavor with real steel M4 and real steel Tavor:

 

http://www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/forums/inde...p;#entry2210044

 

I think at this point it's not whether the proportions are wrong, but how wrong they are. The TSI version has extra height - just look at the handguard and how far the magazine extends.

[Sonny]

I think someone else mentioned it, but it does look like the barrel sits higher then the RS, thus maybe giving it an illusion of the foregrip being larger. It maye have needed to be done that way considering how high the gearbox sits in the body. The grip and handguard does seem longer, maybe like 1-2inches judging when people have held it, and how the magazine doesnt surpass it in length like the RS.

 

Ive been very tempted to cancel my order...hoping some more reviews will come out that are so biased that will help me with that choice.

[bknewcomb]

You only have to go back to the pics BK posted, comparing his M4 and Tavor with real steel M4 and real steel Tavor:

 

http://www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/forums/inde...p;#entry2210044

 

I think at this point it's not whether the proportions are wrong, but how wrong they are. The TSI version has extra height - just look at the handguard and how far the magazine extends.

 

 

I think you're right about the foregrip. It seems to be fuller than the RS, even after two weeks in my hands. The mag however, I'm not so certain that sits wrong anymore. It may just appear that way because the back is wider to accomidate battery/gearbox, etc.

The more I'm used to it, the closer to RS the back looks. (closer! Not spot on)

I'm very interested to hear from others that actually OWN the gun as to whether this is the case or not. Papi808 should have some interesting insight.

[DrKalinka]

A dude in Norway here has gotten his and he is definitively not happy with it. I cant be arsed to translate the page on the forum so ill leave that to google:

 

http://translate.google.com/translate?prev...te0=&swap=1

 

The syntax got a bit weird but i think you will get the essence...

[Marlowe]

This has moved from being an update about a product to being an commercial issue with a business. As a result I'm moving this to an appropriate new section.

 

I would be grateful for any parties who are neither the unhappy buyer nor TSI Armouries to now leave it to these parties to sort this fiasco out. The various fanboys and conspiracy-providers would be best spending their time doing something productive now, rather than antagonising what should be a private issue between buyer and seller.

 

 

[papi808]

Amoki- ordered June 15

[Sonny]

Thats very interesting...I ordered May 20th and havent gotten mine...