sacairsoftsn00py Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 - with every shot, a cloud of gas exited (noticable one) the barrel behind the bb. My nozzle is temporarily set to negative pressure so it is probbably set to spew to much gas behind the bb before the bolt starts to cycel. Maybe adding some shims on the float valve would be helpful in achieving higher gas efficiency and thous less cool down of the mag. I'm currently using Abbey predator ultra - many of fellow airsofters have complaints about this gas - low power, to much lube, high cool down -maybe this is the starting point of my problems. What gas are you GBBR users using in your guns (other than pure propane and duster)? In what temperatures does your gun operate successfully? which magazines are you using? if you're using the stock AGM/AGM magazine and GHK magazine then that would explain the cloud of gas exiting your barrel. magazines with NLS help prevent/minimize this occurance a dry hop bucking translates to more consistent shots... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mutikasha Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 which magazines are you using? if you're using the stock AGM/AGM magazine and GHK magazine then that would explain the cloud of gas exiting your barrel. magazines with NLS help prevent/minimize this occurance a dry hop bucking translates to more consistent shots... You are right snoopy, I am using AGM and a GHK magazine, but I still think that the main problem is the amount of gas released from the mag, in combination with the lack of the NLS system. Other think that came to my mind is this - AGM mag performs slightly better than a GHK - I dont mean in fps output on the first three shots but in auto fire mode where AGM can shot half a mag on the burst mode in 1 sec interval with no problem but the GHK becomes sluggish really fast. Could this be because of the too strong hammer spring in the AGM which to violently releases gas from GHK mag which has significantly weaker spring than AGM mag. Could the AGM mag spring be changed for a weaker one so the hammer spring can be changed to a weaker one all around? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
snorkelman Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 Question about the new jdt bolt and nozzle that came out on ebairsoft . They have listed :Play attention the bolt can only match Inokatsu type Nozzle How does that apply to the agm users ? do inokatsu use different hop up or anything? Are they saying that if the metal nozzle were to break only the Inokatsu nozzle will work for a replacement or that you can only use that specific bolt carrier or bolt carriers made for inokatsu e.g. no airsoft surgeon vltor stuff? Anyone know ..Thanks .....Luis21 eagerly awaiting your review thanks Ino bolt assemblies: proprietary nozzle tube - has the groove for the side plate machined into the side of the nozzle tube (versus the WA style groove formed into a raised section on side of the tube) proprietary bolt - screws into the nozzle tube not the 'keyed and thru pin' of standard bolts break the nozzle tube or break the bolt and you'll need to source spare Ino style ones bolt carrier - top cut out section of the bolt carrier is same length as the bottom cut out, and the rear section of the carrier behind the cut outs is pretty much the same length as the cut outs. This makes the carrier longer than WA carriers JDT bolt assembly: nozzle tube as per the ino - groove machined in the side not a groove formed on a raised side section bolt - would expect that to follow Ino type too so a per the Ino break nozzle tube or bolt and its Ino parts you're going to have to source for it bolt carrier - top cut out same length as bottom cut out (as per the Ino) BUT the 'JDT' branded one in PX airsoft side on photo looks like the rear section behind the cut outs is shorter than the cut outs themselves Unless the photo on PX is distorting it that should make it WA length Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Luis21 Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 Hey Snorkel, have you received your JDT BCGs yet? I know you ordered two. Thanks, -Luis Quote Link to post Share on other sites
snorkelman Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 still waiting, got three on their way one from PX ordered on 11th was posted on 13th and left HK on 15th - random postal workers walkouts at this end wont help to speed its delivery two from ebb ordered on 9th and 10th were posted today (lazy tossers) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Luis21 Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 still waiting, got three on their way one from PX ordered on 11th was posted on 13th and left HK on 15th - random postal workers walkouts at this end wont help to speed its delivery two from ebb ordered on 9th and 10th were posted today (lazy tossers) Yeah, I feel ya. Mine got out of a sorting center about 2 hrs away from my house yesterday..... Hopefully it comes in today. -Luis Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HOPPERSAN Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 Thanks for the info guys .hope it all works out for both of you Quote Link to post Share on other sites
snorkelman Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 confirmed by stirrat its 175mm same length as the WA carrier Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TANGO91 Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 Alright guys so Im thinking im going to pick up one of these uses and shove in some upgrade/replacement parts, first order of business is how are the Light Weight AGM Mags? do they have the expanding problem? can they hold Green Gas without leaking? Internally heres what im thinking (please let me know if any of them have known issues in AGM M4's 5KU/ACM steel hammer with bearing 5KU/ACM Anti rotation pins 5KU/ACM CNC steel sear JDT steel Bolt Stop set Element Steel Hammer Lock ACM PGC (?) clone hop up chamber for AEG barrels off Boomarms Externally Im going to have the 5KU Steel outer barrel with the plethora of extensions (5 I think) Does anyone know of any problems with these parts or have recommendation for better parts (for the $) Thanks in advance, Tango91 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
colazel Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 look at the px-airsoft there a new hopup that fit with aeg buckinh for 23$ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
snorkelman Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 (edited) 5KU/ACM steel hammer with bearing 5KU/ACM Anti rotation pins 5KU/ACM CNC steel sear JDT steel Bolt Stop set Element Steel Hammer Lock ACM PGC (?) clone hop up chamber for AEG barrels off Boomarms anti rotation pins can be a tight fit element steel hammer might be a better option than the ACM one I've got the ACM one here it works well andd does the job but.. its got three bearings that could be failure points. In particular the two axis bearings are different size from standard hammer bushings so if one of the two of those does fail you'ld need to search for new bearings to suit. the 5KU steel sear Ive not tried yet (the finish on it put me off given RAT ones are 10 bucks and work well anyways) If you're not ordering stuff from RAT and want to chuck one of the 5ku ones in along with other stuff that you're already paying postage on then aye could be worth a try - though even then the Element version looks a little better finished and is a cheaper part JDT firing block that their steel bolt stop is atached to might be built to ino spec, if so expect a bit of filing and fettling to get it to fit inthe AGM lower (file the part not the lower) element steel hammer lock? forget it one on the rifle as standard - A is already metal and more than up for the job and B is actually a better combo with AGM or third party selectors than the G&P or Ino ones are so if the element one is anythign like those it'll cause you more work to get it to work than just sticking with the AGM hamemr lock. if you're looking for an AEG barrel-compliant hop chamber then this one might be worth a look as it'll take both AEG barrels AND AEG hop rubbers http://www.px-airsoft.com/showroom/model/T...648127578031339 if it was me I'd go with these AU-GBB-EX088 Steel Sear for M4 GBB (Element) USD 5.00 AU-GBB-EX087 Steel Trigger for M4 GBB (Element) USD 9.00 AU-GBB-EX091 Steel Hammer for M4 GBB (Element) USD 10.00 AU-GBB-058 Hop Up Chamber (Rear Adjust/AEG Barrel) USD 23.00 AA-PT-023 Anti Rotation Links For WA M4 GBB USD 8.00 then ditch the steel hammer lock and add: AU-GBB-EX082 Steel Selector for M4 GBB (Element) USD 8.00 all above available from one place with a single 8.80 airmail shipping fee - only thing they're out of stock on at the mo is the 'JDT steel boltcatch firing block' they have the multi part steel barrel set too, though that'll add a futher 14 bucks onto shipping cost thanks to its weight n size Edited September 23, 2009 by snorkelman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TANGO91 Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 yeah I actually saw that, but its more expensive than the one at boomarms, and it doesnt come with a bucking. Plus i think I remember reading in here that metal chambers are bad because they tend to break the nozzle or bolt face or something like that. Also would it be worth getting the Element high power nozzle? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
snorkelman Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 yeah I actually saw that, but its more expensive than the one at boomarms, and it doesnt come with a bucking. Plus i think I remember reading in here that metal chambers are bad because they tend to break the nozzle or bolt face or something like that. Also would it be worth getting the Element high power nozzle? bear in mind thats 'doesnt come with a bucking' versus a part that 'only takes the bucking it ships with' wether it works out cheaper depends on wether shopping at boomarms in order to buy it doesnt add to overall order costs and whether getting a new hop rubber for it later means having to buy another complete unit from abroad or not that said its tried and tested and folks using it seem to get on OK with it whereas the one at PX (although cloned from the Prime) is as yet untested. As far as metal chambers breaking nozzles - nozzles seem to break based on alignment issues, not material the hop unit is made from (Im running metal hops without as much as a scratch showing up on the standard plastic nozzle that comes with RAT npas) Hop units on other hand seem to have a greater tendency to give up the ghost on a BB jam if they're made of plastic. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TANGO91 Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 bear in mind thats 'doesnt come with a bucking' versus a part that 'only takes the bucking it ships with' wether it works out cheaper depends on wether shopping at boomarms in order to buy it doesnt add to overall order costs and whether getting a new hop rubber for it later means having to buy another complete unit from abroad or not that said its tried and tested and folks using it seem to get on OK with it whereas the one at PX (although cloned from the Prime) is as yet untested. As far as metal chambers breaking nozzles - nozzles seem to break based on alignment issues, not material the hop unit is made from (Im running metal hops without as much as a scratch showing up on the standard plastic nozzle that comes with RAT npas) Hop units on other hand seem to have a greater tendency to give up the ghost on a BB jam if they're made of plastic. Yeah, I actually didnt realize the PX one could take AEG bucking (missed it or cant read or something) so now im going to scrap the hammer lock (im not exactly sure what it does, besides lock the hammer, and was just like oh hey steel) and going with element parts over 5KU parts and add the steel selector Also how is the RAT bolt stop? does it require filing (im fine with filing just so long as no massive surgery is needed) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
snorkelman Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 (edited) RAT bolt stop needs a little filing too if the JDT is Ino spec then its really going to be a choice between a little filing of the bolt stop area of the firing block (RAT) or a little filling of the lower receiver mounting area of the firing block I've got one of the JDT blocks on its way but its part of the ebbanned order they dragged their heels sending out so not likely to be here any time soon for me to be able to say for sure wether it needs filing or not. the JDT would have the advantages of being something you could (usually) source along with the element parts - except PX are currently out of stock, includes a bolt stop that uses a tensioning spring under the base of the stop and is a whole assembly that comes with a steel firing pin Downside is it costs more the RAT has the advantage of being cheaper part to buy (and element hammer comes with a steel firing pin you coudl fit at same time) but uses the original WA spring and pin method of tensioning the stop, and would need a seperate order (and shipping fee) to buy it from RAT the hammer lock is pretty important but often overlooked part - in semi it does nothing, but in auto it temporarily holds the hammer back while the bolt carrier returns fully to loaded position. Without it the hammer would just fly forward for its second and subsequent shots on a burst of auto as soon as the bolt carrier is past it - and thats long before the bolt carrier is lined up with the nozzle. End result of that is wasted gas and far more inconsistent auto fire than the gun would actually be capable of. Edited September 23, 2009 by snorkelman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TANGO91 Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 (edited) Well I think im going to be putting orders into both PX-Airsoft and Ebaybanned so I can just pick up the JDT @ ebaybanned along with the 5KU barrel set. Edit: these are the mags im thinking about getting http://www.px-airsoft.com/showroom/model/T...880293234004913 do these have the expanding problem? do they leak with Green Gas? Edited September 23, 2009 by TANGO91 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Luis21 Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Well I think im going to be putting orders into both PX-Airsoft and Ebaybanned so I can just pick up the JDT @ ebaybanned along with the 5KU barrel set. Edit: these are the mags im thinking about getting http://www.px-airsoft.com/showroom/model/T...880293234004913 do these have the expanding problem? do they leak with Green Gas? One thing to remember about the 5KU steel barrel set(5 pieces). It has a thin barrel shoulder at the base where it mates with the upper receiver. The AGM barrel nut is made for barrels with thick shoulders, so there will be alot of leftover space and your barrel will wobble madly. If you don't want to get a new barrel nut then spacers will work. Just a heads up. Other than that, you're good to go. -Luis Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TheFull9 Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Anyone fitted a barrel mounted 203 to an 061 by any chance? I quite like the look of the Dboys version with the quick release front mount, but the CA launcher I have doesn't fit anywhere near so I'm a little hesitant. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Luis21 Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 (edited) I just got my JDT BCG! I ordered it from PX-Airsoft. All I can tell you about it right now is: -Very, very nice externally. Carrier is steel and nozzle is aluminum w/ a golden coating. You can see the machining marks on the carrier, just like the Inokatsu. -Loading nozzle is Inokatsu type. It has the groove machined on the side where the locking plate mates with it. It also has the extension like the Inokatsu in the rear, where the O-ring is. -Fixed negative pressure system. I'll take it apart to see if you can just buy an RA-Tech $15 flute valve to make it a full NPAS. -Heavyweight, makes my AGM carrier seem light. -Mine looks like it was PRE-CUT. The back is very flat and the edges are jagged. It might have been Inokatsu length before..... -About 1mm longer than my AGM carrier. -Loading nozzle movement is very stiff inside carrier. O-Ring sticks too much.... -Loading nozzle itself is very smooth and seems self-lubricating like brass. -Lots of oxidation on the back part of the loading nozzle where the O-ring sits. I might make a short video later on, depending on how I feel. Thanks, -Luis Edited September 23, 2009 by Luis21 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waters Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Nice info Luis! Anyway, does anybody know something about G&P WA Hop Up Rubber?? I have 5KU hop chamber and I want know if it will be fine working together. Waters Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TANGO91 Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 One thing to remember about the 5KU steel barrel set(5 pieces). It has a thin barrel shoulder at the base where it mates with the upper receiver. The AGM barrel nut is made for barrels with thick shoulders, so there will be alot of leftover space and your barrel will wobble madly. If you don't want to get a new barrel nut then spacers will work. Just a heads up. Other than that, you're good to go. -Luis Thanks, thats good to know. Im sure I can figure something out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
matt.bee Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 with regards to barrel spacers for thick shoulder/thin shoulder issues, I know Shimano Hollowtec 2 bottom bracket spacers (Available from any good cycle shop for a few quid) will fit AEGs, so may well work with these. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Luis21 Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 The JDT BCG is way too heavy for any full auto firing. It cycles fine on semi but I'm not even using full auto ever again, it's like 5 rps..... No complaints other than that. -Luis Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Deepeyes Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 How is the recoil with the new bolt? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Luis21 Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 How is the recoil with the new bolt? It's stronger than the stock bolt carrier group. That's not a good thing though. I was expecting way more kick. Here's the bottom line. The BCG cycles way slower than most set-ups because it's so damn heavy! Stirrat(GGI) said that his wieghed in at 325g, the stock AGM is 205-210g!!! The RA-Tech NPAS BCG is 241g! Propane/Green gas isn't enought to cycle the BCG fast enough to provide good recoil. Heck, the JDT BCG weight would be nice in a real AR-15 set-up. ***One very important thing, my stock AGM heavyweight magazine was unable to release enough gas to even cycle the whole BCG back. I had to use my 5KU mags for testing*** If you really want to get the JDT BCG, here's what you need to do: -Kiss your fast/reasonable ROF goodbye. The JDT BCG offers about 4 RPS.... -Get a way weaker recoil spring. Since the carrier is already moving slow, due to its weight, you don't want to slow it down even more by adding resistance. -Get new magazines. My 5KU mags cycled my JDT BCG correctly. -Get a steel bolt stop. -A hammer with a roller-bearing on top is preferable since it will decrease resistance on the underside of the BCG. I will make a video regarding the BCG and a performance review on the 5KU mags as soon as I get my camera back. I can also make a separate thread for the JDT carrier only in the meantime. Thanks, -Luis Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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