Shell/Cartridge Ejecting Airsoft

[jond36]

So I must say the best and by far the most fun airsoft weapon I have fired is the M4 that is an Electric/Cap Gun. I notice that we are also have a few handguns that are made with shells now.

 

Can we make shell/cartridge ejecting GBB rifles? I know Tokyo Marui made an MP5 A3 that did. How can we pass some of this info along to some Japan/Taiwan companies?

 

Any one else intrested in this kind of realism?

[08kecarv]

It'd be cool to mess with but totally impractical for skirmish purposes. Sadly, it wouldn't take off, just as the shell ejecting GBB Pistols haven't.

[jond36]

Yeah, I think the expense is the real down side. The shells just cost to much!

 

Instead of reusable shells, I wanna see bio-shells.

[08kecarv]

Even then I think the cost would be too high.

 

I think the cheapest, most bio friendly way to go about shells would be to make them out of extremely hard paper or cardboard. Only catch would be if they get wet they're gonners.

[renegadecow]

There was a discussion about this in the Marushin CZ75 news page. While the idea itself seems novel ("seems", shell ejecting airsofts have actually been around since the 90's), the cost of shells, magazines and the sacrifice for capacity makes them collectors items. There's also people being too lazy to actually pick up shells in the field. In practical shooting stages maybe, but in high grass or mud?

I was successful in making el-cheapo shells for my Marushin Mateba, starting off with paper shells first but ditched it and used real empties. I'm sure the same can be applied for the shell ejecting autos, it's just that I haven't heard of anyone actually trying it yet.

[Stealthbomber]

Airsofters are cheapskates.

 

Even if the "shells" were just cardboard tubes that cost $10 for a bag of 1000, 99% of airsofters would purchase a regular gun instead.

 

Bearing in mind that you'd need to invent your own, non-standard, magazines and feed mechanism it seems unlikely that a manufacturer would build something to appeal to 1% of the market rather than the other 99%.

 

I imagine most airsoft manufacturers are rather jaded and cynical these days.

They must know, by now, that even if the public rave about a product it doesn't always translate into sales.

This is another one of those products where everybody will go "OMG!!! DO WANT!!!" and then, when it comes down to it, they'll spend the money on an XBox and a couple of bags of BBs for their existing toy gun instead.

 

 

The technical problems are also pretty tough.

If you fit shells into a mag then you reduce the space for gas.

You need to come up with a shell that can be fed and extracted and still only costs 5c or so.

The guns action needs to have a long enough stroke to chamber and eject the round.

Related to all the above, the easiest solution is to make the shells shorter and shorter which, in turn, reduces the visual spectacle and makes the idea less worthwhile.

[Fighting Maus]

The technical problems are also pretty tough.

If you fit shells into a mag then you reduce the space for gas.

You need to come up with a shell that can be fed and extracted and still only costs 5c or so.

The guns action needs to have a long enough stroke to chamber and eject the round.

Related to all the above, the easiest solution is to make the shells shorter and shorter which, in turn, reduces the visual spectacle and makes the idea less worthwhile.

 

The above is very true. An obvious side effect of adding an extraction cycle would be a rate of fire drop. I would also guess that unless an action was thoroughly tested, tuning a gun would now be out of the question. Imaging trying to put a lipo for a "uber insane ROF" and then shredding the lip off of a case. Or worse yet having it not eject completely and destroying your bolt and extraction mechanism.

 

On a side note, I have a "softair" MP5K that was built by Daisy in the late 80's. It is semi auto, but it ejeects the casings after every shot. The user needs to pre load the casings with BBs, then load them in the magazine. It is pretty cool, but I would never take the mechanism apart to try to convert it to full auto.

 

[frogfish]

Taken a look at the RAP4 airsoft gun? Been around for a while and even though shells are cheap the lack of a decent hop-up has kept them obscure.

[tiksom]

Any one else intrested in this kind of realism?

It is a tricky question.

 

Airsofters who skirmish do not like idea of shells. It is something that you spend your money on, then you either have to go and search after the party, or buy new ones. Price and convenience are the main issues here.

In the past there has been quite a few shell-ejecting replicas, MP5, MPL, CZ75, there is also a few newer ones: Glock 21, CZ75 remake. They are not that popular... For plinking and indoor fun - yes, but not skirmishing.

My guess is that lack of sales is what stops airsoft manufacturers from introducing more models.

 

Poeple who like to have a shell-ejector seem to go for real guns (wherever allowed), blank firers, or japanese modelguns (blowback effect due to cap detonation, not stream of gas).

[jond36]

Taken a look at the RAP4 airsoft gun? Been around for a while and even though shells are cheap the lack of a decent hop-up has kept them obscure.

 

I used to own the RAP4 .43 cal, but it sucked. SOLD!

[Grosssmeister]

Did anybody except me ever had the idea of putting the 2 worlds together? Take a RAP4 Airsoft and insteat of gas or CO2 take an AEG Motor and you`ll have a shell ejecting aeg...? Once I have the money I`m gonna try to work on this...

[halofanatic333]

There is a shell ejecting m110 Shotgun.

The idea is impractical for skirmish use, but would be cool/fun for movie usage and such.

[Beta]

I own a modified Maruzen M1100 and it is by a wide margin my favorite plinker. Doesn't have the accuracy or range for serious skirmish use, but it's alright in semi-only CQB with a shell catcher.

[Forti]

There was a gent at Marrs a few months back showing everyone his prototype gun. It was an M4 (sigh) GBB with Ejecting shells. It was actually really awesome, but horrifically expensive, and since he built it himself there is, sadly, only one.

[ThaFlash]

My friend has a cap firing airsoft revolver with shells. I've seen video a long time ago of cap firing shell ejecting AR's. Definitely illegal in the u.s. as they are firearms. Cool stuff though.

[tiksom]

I've seen video a long time ago of cap firing shell ejecting AR's. Definitely illegal in the u.s. as they are firearms.

These are not firearms and they are definitely legal in USA.

[ThaFlash]

Sorry, this is an airsoft forum and assumed we were talking about airsoft guns. I was specifically talking about airsoft guns and not model guns.

 

You build up the shell with the PFC, put in the BB, load up the mag and go.

[j33v3s]

Cost and capacity. Even if there was to be an airsoft gun that would eject shells with shells costing the same as bbs the capacity would become an issue. In my opinion 30 rounds just doesn't cut in, even for milsim. Airsoft guns just aren't accurate enough.

Definitely going to stay a collectors item to show off just outside the safe zone.

[ThaFlash]

I used to use STAR 30rnd mags until I started using G&P guns, then they stopped feeding and I figured I'd rather use metal mags with ranger plates. I made up for the lower capacity with more mags, not really an issue.

 

Cost is always an issue, but if it's cool enough and built well, people will get it.

[Touchette]

I believe the rise of the ACM and clone guns have proven that cost is a very large factor in airsoft. With that in mind, so long as the costs (of the gun, parts, maintenance, mags, shells, etc) are in line with current trends, then it might be successful.

 

The convenience factor will also play a fairly large role. The mil-sim players probably won't be as negatively affected by the limited mag capacity that comes with the shell style play, but the hi-cap toting crowd will have a tizzy and are much less likely to convert. I don't know the percentage of players who choose one path or another, let alone those that do both, so I'm unsure of the effects it would have. In addition, the current crop of shell ejectors wherein the user needs to go back and pick up spent shells (for the sake of their cost and the environment) and their lack of success have shown that non-biodegradable shells will not be a large success. Thus, the mechanisms need to be able to accommodate shell materials that are biodegradable. My guess is this would ultimately be in the form of plastics similar to biodegradable bb's, but I don't really know anything about that technology so it is just a guess.

 

These are just some of the potential problems that come up, as has been stated by many other posters here.

[Furey]

There was a 'real action marker' around years ago, made by a chineese company long before china started making airsoft guns. It was a paintball oriented replica M4 that fired small paintballs or large BB's out of a brass tube shell via compressed gas. pretty cool but it was about £4 for 50 rounds, and the weapon plus mags was about £700 i think. On concrete the ejecting brass 'shells' made an ace noise!

[Gliderrider]

IIRC Thats what they used in "SAS Jungle;Are You Tough enough?" Made over here, ace but not worth the money. The gas is housed in an over sized buffer tube.

 

Same Go's for Maruzens K98 & M1 Garand, cool toys, but not practical in a skirmish. Unless of course you could get hold of cheep shells, but even the AGM K98 shells are pretty expensive to "Throw Away".

[ThaFlash]

I have the capability to mass produce cheap shells (possibly even made of bio material), but that's not the main obstacle right now.

 

To be honest, a PPS setup is more efficient and can be reliably used in a shell ejecting design. However you still need to find space in the mag for the gas.