Rabid anti-Obama moron

[Seraphim989]

To be fair, most of what you guys overseas see is the people who get on television, like the guy in the video. Most Americans are much more level headed than that. I agree, there is definitely those feelings in some areas, but for the most part, we aren't near that blockheaded.

[my_plague_666]

Newsflash the Taliban didn't exist until 1992, you didn't fund, arm or train them directly or indirectly in any meaningful manner. However individuals that later went on to join them as well as some of the Mujahideen groups who also joined them may have received some support during the Soviet occupation.

 

the mujahideen were as much a terrorist group as the taliban (and one might argue they are one and the same, especially since mujahideen is technically a general term for any islamic insurgent). afghanistan had a legitimate government and the US supported and funded terrorist groups to collapse this government (with typical 80's american 'KILL THE COMMIES WOOO USA USA!' style)

[Stealthbomber]

Again with your last statement, I voted for my man McCain.

Why?

 

Was it part of his manifesto to invent time travel and then go on to eradicate dictators from history?

 

Actually, somebody should write a film about that but, I digress.

 

I guess you're suggesting that Bush laid the smackdown on Saddam in order to rid the world of his evil, free the oppressed Iraqi's and make the world a safer place.

 

Thing is, in the last 50 years there's been plenty of other dictators who deserve the same whupass that Saddam got. Probably more-so.

 

Any opinion on why, out of all these dictators, the USA picked Iraq to roll tanks into rather than, say, Mozambique, Yugoslavia or even Cuba?

 

Seems like this urge to fight evil throughout the world has really only took hold in the last nine years or so.

Also, even then, it seems (to an ignorant leftie outsider) that the USA is really only interested in fighting the sort of evil that wears bedsheets and rides on camels.

 

Why is that?

[Seraphim989]

the mujahideen were as much a terrorist group as the taliban (and one might argue they are one and the same, especially since mujahideen is technically a general term for any islamic insurgent). afghanistan had a legitimate government and the US supported and funded terrorist groups to collapse this government (with typical 80's american 'KILL THE COMMIES WOOO USA USA!' style)

 

 

More like typical 50's-89 style. It seems like we go through phases of what race we fight. Im not implying anything by this, I just thought it was interesting. Turn of the century we were fighting Europeans, then the Japanese got us onto and Asian theme, a short stint against blacks, and now onto the Middle East. Equal opportunity

[Misfit]

More like typical 50's-89 style. It seems like we go through phases of what race we fight. Im not implying anything by this, I just thought it was interesting. Turn of the century we were fighting Europeans, then the Japanese got us onto and Asian theme, a short stint against blacks, and now onto the Middle East. Equal opportunity

 

You can't cope without something to fear.

[Jagdraben]

We're obviously trying to help. If you haven't read (which i am pretty sure you haven't), we've been trying to help with Darfur by sending peace keeps there. Our military is only so strong, and nation only so rich. We can't be everywhere at once there superman.

 

Don't get me wrong, Americans are among the most charitable people on earth. But that doesn't mean we do nearly enough where and when it matters, especially when we're already throwing away money on things too worthless and too numerous to mention! (Like Sarah Palin's bridge to nowhere, the war in Iraq, and health care.)

 

Eh, poor choice of words on my part, i mean approving. Not condemned, was thinking of something else.

 

Fair enough.

 

Talk this out? How in the hell to you talk something out with people that just want to kill Americans? Thats the biggest problem here, you think those people over there, don't want to kill Americans, but they just do. "Oh, no, i really don't wanna do this, please don't make me, please!". Get real kid. Those people over there hate Americans, they want nothing else but to watch America burn. Osama has vowed to get another attack off on the US. So why should we let him? Obviously you want to negotiate with that. Lets send you over there to the man himself to talk out a plan. Enjoy being tortured and probably put on a video that will be shown all around the world.

 

Have you even glanced through FM 3-24? The COIN field manual? Yes, there is a hardened core of people like who have described. But the vast majority of them wouldn't otherwise give a *suitcase*, until we (or the insurgents) gave them a reason. The hardened core must be sidelined, they must be maligned, and the rest of the insurgents must be woo'd back into the fold. You do that, the insurgency ends, the hardened core go from being freedom fighters/terrorists to being simple criminals. At that point, they either get smart and retire (or go into exile) or they get dead.

 

Again, typical lefty. "Whats a military? They're so unimportant! They don't do anything for us. Its not like they give us rights we are BLESSED to have!"

 

Too bad I'm neither a lefty nor typical.

 

My rights are granted to me by God. They are enshrined by the Constitution of the United States. They are fought over in courts and houses of legislation.

 

While I greatly respect the men and women of America's armed services, it cannot be argued for a moment that they do anything to protect the freedoms of the average American and have not done so since they rode into Mexico, riding after Pancho Villa! In the meantime, they do an admirable and unparalleled job of fighting and dying for the freedoms of America's allies and the profits of America's businesses.

 

By now, you've probably read that link (or not, if your THAT single minded), and know by now that ties to helping Al-Qaeda were had in May of 2002, we didn't even spit at Iraq untill 2003. Next...

 

Maybe you didn't notice, but we've been spitting at Iraq constantly (if not consistently) since 1990.

 

Failure to plan? Thats a joke. All i saw on the news was "Wheres my free stuff? Where my free housing?" I live in Minnesota, i've been through a few tornadoes, and i never once called my government asking for my free stuff. I didn't call FEMA asking for free housing because my electricity was out for days. HELL no, i adapted. My community got together, pulled their own weight, and helped EVERYONE in my area out with removing downed trees, damage to houses, and cleaning up the streets.

 

 

Uh... oh... kay. Not sure what that has to do with the fact that N'orleans was screwed by the US Government because Bush's administration couldn't tell his *albatross* from an anthill.... But OK.

 

You guys are all terrorist supporters.

 

Sports bras are great for that.

[Stealthbomber]

Have you even glanced through FM 3-24? The COIN field manual? Yes, there is a hardened core of people like who have described. But the vast majority of them wouldn't otherwise give a *suitcase*, until we (or the insurgents) gave them a reason. The hardened core must be sidelined, they must be maligned, and the rest of the insurgents must be woo'd back into the fold. You do that, the insurgency ends, the hardened core go from being freedom fighters/terrorists to being simple criminals. At that point, they either get smart and retire (or go into exile) or they get dead.

At the risk of stirring up more controversy, I wonder if the people who organised the war in Iraq ever saw that book either.

 

I mean, I'm sure the idea of deposing Saddam seemed all fine and dandy at the time but it sometimes seems like it didn't occur to anybody that subversive elements might take the opportunity to create discontent after Saddam had gone and then persuade the locals that the allied forces were the cause of all their problems.

 

For about 3 months we got to feel like we might have nurtured a democracy in Iraq, then it soon became blatantly obvious that all we'd achieved was creating a country full of people ready to jump on any syrian or Iranian anti-western bandwagon that happened to roll into town.

 

All in all, not one of the most far-sighted bits of military action we'e ever indulged in.

 

Still, Dubyah got to finish what his old man couldn't and that's the important thing, right?

[billytehbob]

 

Uh... oh... kay. Not sure what that has to do with the fact that N'orleans was screwed by the US Government because Bush's administration couldn't tell his *albatross* from an anthill.... But OK.

 

Don't quote me on this, but as far as I know, the president can declare a state of emergency in an area, but it's up to the State's governor to do anything about it.

 

 

[Samm]

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad - Personally i hope we go to war with them, and kill that jack *albatross* too, but not in this administration. McCain was all about it, thats why i voted for him.

 

Kim Jong Il - He has cancer, his son isn't as big of a nut as he is, he'll die soon enough. But on the contrary he may do something stupid "Oh im gonna die anyways" ######. So gotta keep an eye on him. But he doesn't kill innocent people as far as i know. Besides, 2ND ID is standing by to deliver the whooping if he goes south, literally.

 

Those are the two making it in my books right now. But i'm sure as time progresses more will make the mainstream radar.

 

Mugabe isn't a mainstream bad guy to you? Have you been living on the moon for the last 30 years or do you really only watch Fox News?

[GnGArmament]

Am I the only one that has noticed the definition of patriotism appears to have changed in America?

 

It is no longer simply supporting your country, but supporting your chosen Government of the day. This seems to extend to supporting every single one of their policy decisions, lest you be branded unpatriotic/an appeaser. This even seems to have been adopted by the political parties themselves, "You're either with us or you're against us".

 

Humm...This reminds me of that demotivational poster....

 

 

 

Edit: Actually, saw this and wanted to respond

I myself am a libertarian and am quite sick of being called selfish, extremist, heartless etc.

 

I share a lot of views that a libertarian does, and it's sad that people need to stoop that low.

 

 

 

 

the left continually does this, taking a few uneducated people and portraying it as if ALL conservatives act this way.

 

Even though I am liberal-ish, I do tend to see this a low with media outlets that lean left. It's sad I can't turn to a news channel today and get unbaised news, but 60 years ago I could.

[Seraphim989]

Well the plan for Afghanistan was actually pretty good. The SF guys did a great job. Maybe if we had done something more like that in Iraq it could have gone better. Ive heard several of the top men in our military saying we should have done it that way.

[Gir]

Well, I'm through arguing. Not because i feel I've lost the argument, but because no-one seems to be open to view both sides. I've thought on both sides, and talked with alot of liberal and even moderate people about their views, and seem to never get an exact answer.

 

I'm a simple man, with simple beliefs. I've been through poverty and am still going through it right now (because someone decided to cut the Future Combat Systems, program, and with that, cut jobs.... , so much for stimulating the job market...). But i wake up every day, put on my shoes (or boots), and go to my job, with my head held high and a smile on my face. When i serve, i serve proudly, because nobody can remove that feeling i get of doing good, and helping those in need. Being in the Army National Guard, its more than just overseas, its at home. Last May we had a flood fighting mission, and now next year, we'll be in Afghanistan. My beliefs are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, what this great nation was founded on. I've enjoyed my many years, and been blessed with many good times, and now its time to pay it forward to others, who have never lived a day of happiness in their life.

 

The term "The Global War on Terrorism" (GWOT), was coined behind the idea of stopping those who wish to do harm (physical and mental) to innocent men and women. It was created out of the two wars we are fighting, and many more wars other country's ARE fighting against terrorists. I hope this term stays, and i hope out field of view, doesn't stay focused on the Middle East, but rather expands from there.

 

My views stand as they are, and are open to change, but i have yet to find logical beliefs to follow, that would convince me to change!

[Punkypink]

And the way you express your views, is not going to convince anyone else to change too. What I said stands. You argue your corner much like Kevin does, with lots of smoke and mirrors and rhethoric designed to appeal to kneejerk emotions instead of sense and logic.

 

You can't fob off people pointing out flaws in your arguments with proclaimations of your beliefs and your right to them and completely ignoring things like how you tried to give smart-alec answers that backfired and did not answer to the point.

 

It's pitiful you know? Watching someone backed into a corner so badly he has to resort to such unpleasant methods, and yet who refuses to recognise how far he's been backed in, and why he got backed in to begin with.

[Gir]

And the way you express your views, is not going to convince anyone else to change too. What I said stands. You argue your corner much like Kevin does, with lots of smoke and mirrors and rhethoric designed to appeal to kneejerk emotions instead of sense and logic.

 

You can't fob off people pointing out flaws in your arguments with proclaimations of your beliefs and your right to them and completely ignoring things like how you tried to give smart-alec answers that backfired and did not answer to the point.

 

It's pitiful you know? Watching someone backed into a corner so badly he has to resort to such unpleasant methods, and yet who refuses to recognise how far he's been backed in, and why he got backed in to begin with.

 

Research all my statements i've made, and you'll see everything i said is true.

 

I'd be a Liberal too, if their ideas worked.

[Chimpy]

the mujahideen were as much a terrorist group as the taliban (and one might argue they are one and the same, especially since mujahideen is technically a general term for any islamic insurgent). afghanistan had a legitimate government and the US supported and funded terrorist groups to collapse this government (with typical 80's american 'KILL THE COMMIES WOOO USA USA!' style)

 

Actually I'd argue that they are both insurgent groups. They aren't one and the same because the Taliban is a different organisation, with different rules, edicts and goals than the ones that existed during the Soviet occupation. As mentioned above this is a simplification as both are umbrella terms for a wider range of organisations banded together.

 

The US lost interest in funding the insurgency the moment the Soviets pulled out and the government in Afghanistan actually lasted a few more years.

 

At the risk of stirring up more controversy, I wonder if the people who organised the war in Iraq ever saw that book either.

 

Rather obviously not as FM 3-24 didn't exist at that point.

 

Mind you I agree with your general gist and have posted a similar point extensively over the years here.

 

Research all my statements i've made, and you'll see everything i said is true.

 

This is clearly not true. People have pointed out repeatedly the factual and logical errors you have made on this topic.

[Stealthbomber]

And the way you express your views, is not going to convince anyone else to change too. What I said stands. You argue your corner much like Kevin does, with lots of smoke and mirrors and rhethoric designed to appeal to kneejerk emotions instead of sense and logic.

It could be worse.

 

He didn't yet post a picture of an eagle with a tear in its eye.

 

Rather obviously not as FM 3-24 didn't exist at that point.

I did not know dis. [/fat tony]

[Punkypink]

Research all my statements i've made, and you'll see everything i said is true.

 

I'd be a Liberal too, if their ideas worked.

Annnnd once again you've sidestepped the topic and completely not answered to the point.

[Chimpy]

I did not know dis. [/fat tony]

 

There were plenty of other field manuals and books that did though so your point stands. Whoever thought sacking the entire Iraqi Army would be good plan and ignored the intelligence that showed Saddam training his Fedayeen in guerrilla warfare deserves a stick up the *albatross*.

[Gir]

Annnnd once again you've sidestepped the topic and completely not answered to the point.

 

Whats the question then? I've explained everything you wanted to know. I've had many more arguments like this with others, citing all my sources, and covering my own *albatross*. This is why i don't really talk politics much more (Unless theres a Bush bashing going on, i'll tear into someone about that any day of the week).

 

Ask away, but don't ask "What 2+2? Because in my books it equals 57, simple because *ramble on about some stupid reasoning behind your answer". I've wasted plenty of my time in this topic trying to convince people that Bush wasn't that bad of a guy, and how he helped to start putting an end to evil in this world.

 

BTW, its funny that "End these wars, send our troops home", yet somehow i think people WANT to go and fight. We have OVER 15 THOUSAND more troops in the ARNG than allowed (Since the wars started, before numbers were low, and incentives to join were high, like my $20,000 bonus ). 365,000/350,000. But hey, I'm sure there's some liberal reasoning behind that.

[Chimpy]

But hey, I'm sure there's some liberal reasoning behind that.

 

Do you understand why this makes you look like a monumental douche?

 

You assert a load of things as fact, then when people challenge it rather than answering them you just assert again and again that you are the only one that sees things properly and everyone else is a stupid lefty for disagreeing with you.

 

It simply makes you look like an ignorant moron that doesn't understand what he is talking about.

 

What you should be doing to convince us you are correct is showing us where and more importantly why we are wrong. At the moment you seem intent on convincing everyone by insulting them and not tackling the points they raise. You say you've had this argument before and provided sources many times but yet have been terrible at reproducing them here.

[Stealthbomber]

BTW, its funny that "End these wars, send our troops home", yet somehow i think people WANT to go and fight. We have OVER 15 THOUSAND more troops in the ARNG than allowed (Since the wars started, before numbers were low, and incentives to join were high, like my $20,000 bonus ). 365,000/350,000. But hey, I'm sure there's some liberal reasoning behind that.

I think there might be an interesting insight into cause and effect there somewhere.

[Punkypink]

Whats the question then? I've explained everything you wanted to know. I've had many more arguments like this with others, citing all my sources, and covering my own *albatross*. This is why i don't really talk politics much more (Unless theres a Bush bashing going on, i'll tear into someone about that any day of the week).

 

Ask away, but don't ask "What 2+2? Because in my books it equals 57, simple because *ramble on about some stupid reasoning behind your answer". I've wasted plenty of my time in this topic trying to convince people that Bush wasn't that bad of a guy, and how he helped to start putting an end to evil in this world.

 

BTW, its funny that "End these wars, send our troops home", yet somehow i think people WANT to go and fight. We have OVER 15 THOUSAND more troops in the ARNG than allowed (Since the wars started, before numbers were low, and incentives to join were high, like my $20,000 bonus ). 365,000/350,000. But hey, I'm sure there's some liberal reasoning behind that.

The question is simple. Why do you resort to smart alecky remarks that constantly shoot yourself in the foot, and ignore it when people point out to you that you've just shot yourself in the foot?

 

Don't go off tangent please.

 

No wonder Chris had to yell at Kevin like that. I feel his pain now.

[Gir]

The question is simple. Why do you resort to smart alecky remarks that constantly shoot yourself in the foot, and ignore it when people point out to you that you've just shot yourself in the foot?

 

Don't go off tangent please.

 

No wonder Chris had to yell at Kevin like that. I feel his pain now.

 

How have i shot myself in the foot? The smart alec remarks would be with-held, if they weren't dished out by people like you in the first place.

 

"No wonder Chris had to yell at Kevin like that. I feel his pain now."

 

He yelled at Chris to shut him up and make him not say the honest truth. I'd move on into the next topic "Sarah Palin now a reporter for FOX News", but i have a feeling i would lose it. God man, this is why i don't visit off topic forums anymore.

[Punkypink]

How have i shot myself in the foot? The smart alec remarks would be with-held, if they weren't dished out by people like you in the first place.

 

"No wonder Chris had to yell at Kevin like that. I feel his pain now."

 

He yelled at Chris to shut him up and make him not say the honest truth. I'd move on into the next topic "Sarah Palin now a reporter for FOX News", but i have a feeling i would lose it. God man, this is why i don't visit off topic forums anymore.

No mate, YOU started it first:

 

Sure thing bra! Throw me some criminals that are worse than Saddam and Osama. Lets hear it. Hitler? His *albartroth* is dead.

Why, if you had valid knowledge of other still living criminals as bad as or worse than Saddam and Osama, who weren't punished by the US of A, did you have to throw out a smart-a** reply like "Hitler, his *albatross* is dead"? You could have simply not asked that question IF you'd known about Kim Jong Il and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. That is what I keep asking you, that is what you seem to keep failing to answer.

 

If you had talked about them outright before the smart-*albatross* "Hitler" remark, it would be easy to accept your views about those other despots are valid. As it is, it took OTHERS to name them 1st, before you talked about them. All it seems to us is that you had not a damned opinion of your own about people like Kim Jong Il and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

 

Then again, if you HAD known about them, then that means you knew Jag was right all along when he said "He got what he deserved. But worse criminals commit crimes that go unanswered for everyday." and you were just being a smart-alec for the sake of arguing, despite you prior knowledge of being factually wrong.

 

As you can see, you're in a hole.

 

And that is but one of the many times you've shot yourself in the foot, and still refuse to answer.

 

I'd be a Liberal too, if their ideas worked.

If America's founding forefathers weren't liberals, they'd have stuck solidly to the path of British patriotism. There'd be no America. So you're either saying America's existance is a failure, or its time for you to be a liberal too since their idea did work.

[elrey]

How have i shot myself in the foot?

 

Well, for one thing, this:

 

This whole topic wreaks of left winged people being biased against right winged.

 

was followed by this:

 

But hey, I'm sure there's some liberal reasoning behind that.

 

You complain that "no-one seems to be open to view both sides" but admit that you "only watch Fox", a network which has an undeniable conservative bias, and criticize MSNBC for being a lefty network. Hopefully, the irony is not lost on you there.

 

God man, this is why i don't visit off topic forums anymore.

 

"This" being what? Lots of people arguing with you? Were you hoping that everyone was just going to agree with your views, or what?

 

By the way, there's a certain gang mentality going on in here which is something I don't like to see. If you disagree with someone, engage with them directly and make a point in a civil manner. Don't mock them and pretend that they aren't reading your posts.