climber Posted February 5, 2011 Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 I actually have a video of the trigger issue, but the focus was way off so I never loaded it onto youtube. Although blurry, it captured the problems with the trigger group. EDIT: Surprise to me, I was able to get the video published before my edit option went away... Here is the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmBhCv8xPxk It will be hard for me to recreate the video, as I have already replaced all of the parts, and the rifle is firing nicely again. nice work there pointing that out Dragon64, thanx for sharing!!! riped my trigger open, installed aeg shims between all pins and body, got a real good result Link to post Share on other sites
Deepeyes Posted February 7, 2011 Report Share Posted February 7, 2011 I just tried to install a bar 10 hop unit into my rifle and it just barely doesn't fit (I am 90% sure the bar10 hop unit is perfect clone of the TM one). I ended up just pilfering parts off of the hop unit and installing them into the snow wolf. (hop up arm and bucking). I will see how well it shoots this weekend, that said the stock performance wasn't too bad but I think it can improved on. Link to post Share on other sites
DRAGON64 Posted February 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2011 I just tried to install a bar 10 hop unit into my rifle and it just barely doesn't fit (I am 90% sure the bar10 hop unit is perfect clone of the TM one). I ended up just pilfering parts off of the hop unit and installing them into the snow wolf. (hop up arm and bucking). I will see how well it shoots this weekend, that said the stock performance wasn't too bad but I think it can improved on. That is what is being reported, the ECHO1 M28 hop up chamber is smaller than VSR-10 chambers like Tokyo Marui, JG and WELL. In some instances, it looks like the hop up was slightly redesigned in certain spots in order to fit the platform. Unlike WELL, who took the VSR-10 hop up chamber and machned it down (screws and all) in order to fit their fluted barrel. Note that the hop up arm (white) for the M28 has suttle changes, and is matched to the suttle changes in the hop up rubber. By suttle I mean, that the hop up arm has a canted slot to allow for slightly better penetration into the hop up chamber, and to make up the rest of the travel, the M28 bucking has a larger (deeper) "nub" designed into it. The bucking, although similar in external appearance to the ones used by Tokyo Marui, WELL and JG, differs internally with the larger "nub". I made the changes that you are making, and the 'standard' hop up arm and slide components worked on the M28, as long as I used a 'standard' bucking. If you use the M28 bucking with the JG plastic parts, you hop will always be on no matter the setting, and can sometimes cause bbs to jam in the barrel. Unfunately I broke the WELL plastic hop up slide that actuates the hop up arm, and had to revert back to the M28 slide. I might point out, that this slide does not work well with any other hop up arm than the M28. It is a tight fit, and cause binding when trying to adjust the hop up. I will post some pics and try to suppliment this post this evening. Link to post Share on other sites
DRAGON64 Posted February 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2011 Update: Just an FYI AirsoftGI is now offering an upgraded barrel specifically for the ECHO1 M28: http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_info.php?products_id=7577 I will order one and test it... Link to post Share on other sites
climber Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 anybody found other mags that will fit this rifle? all stores seems to be out of stock, really need 4-5 spare mags :/ Link to post Share on other sites
mimesis Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 anybody found other mags that will fit this rifle? all stores seems to be out of stock, really need 4-5 spare mags :/ Yes, O/S most places... but here you go: http://www.khmountain.com/airsoft/product_info.php?products_id=2477 Most sites they're listed as ACM / China Made / similar M24 magazines. Link to post Share on other sites
climber Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 Yes, O/S most places... but here you go: http://www.khmountain.com/airsoft/product_info.php?products_id=2477 Most sites they're listed as ACM / China Made / similar M24 magazines. those a.. holes are out of stock too.... Link to post Share on other sites
DRAGON64 Posted February 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 Climber, I hope you do not mind, but I am quoting your post from Airsoft Retreat to this thread, as I find it to be an excellent report on progress you are making with your M28. I am really interested in how this affects the M28 performance, as I am pretty sure that you have increased durability and consistency with this modification/upgrade. Excellent work! Reposted quote from Climber at Airsoft Retreat: little more from my project : my stock alloy cylinder said good-bye so i figured something needed to be done... took some parts with me to the garage and started playing around;) stock PDI cylinder head vs custom vsr10 to M28 cylinder head. http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii133/kl-motor/09022011518.jpg[/img] i expected to loose some fps with this, but i actually gained some small numbers... and the charging is smooth as never before!!! i love stainless steel!!! Link to post Share on other sites
climber Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 there was no big difference in performance, gained a few fps and got more stable than with the stock cylinder, even dough i lost 6mm of compression area... main reason that i didn't loose any fps i guess is that the piston runs allot smoother in this cylinder, almost non force needed to charge, and push bolt forward again... Did a volume calculation earlier with stock cylinder and barrel, and it was somewhere like 2.32/1 so i think i might be a bit short on cyl volume now, will do a recalculation and maybe shorten the barrel to get closer to 2,5/1, what do you think??????? have 524@0.20 and 420@0.36 bbs... (with an old 13mm spring from aps2) shoting test outside today at 100' all 10bbs inside 6" Link to post Share on other sites
Grump3y Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 I've been reading all these post, as I'm trying to figure out if I should buy this gun. To all you who own this gun, what's the general consensus? Is this gun a good buy? Is it accurate at 200 ft? Is anyone else having problems with the gun or was Dragon's just a lemon? Any help to these questions is greatly appreciated. Link to post Share on other sites
DRAGON64 Posted February 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 I'm willing to bet that I have a lemon to some degree, as I had multiple problems that led to an ultimate failure by around 500 rounds. But the rifle is popular enough that AirsoftGI seems to be willing to support it. I made some general inquiries to AirsoftGI, and although they cannot give me specifics, they did reply by saying that they have plans to bring some upgrade items out for the M28. Right now, they do have enough support to help with some of the durability and accuracy issues. AirsoftGI has a new 6.01 barrel, a replacement bucking (most any VSR-10 will fit anyways), and a nice set of replacement 45 degree trigger sears. Grump3y, what is your airsoft background? Link to post Share on other sites
Grump3y Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 I'm willing to bet that I have a lemon to some degree, as I had multiple problems that led to an ultimate failure by around 500 rounds. But the rifle is popular enough that AirsoftGI seems to be willing to support it. I made some general inquiries to AirsoftGI, and although they cannot give me specifics, they did reply by saying that they have plans to bring some upgrade items out for the M28. Right now, they do have enough support to help with some of the durability and accuracy issues. AirsoftGI has a new 6.01 barrel, a replacement bucking (most any VSR-10 will fit anyways), and a nice set of replacement 45 degree trigger sears. Grump3y, what is your airsoft background? Thanks for the reply! I've been airsofting for a couple years now. I have 10 acres that I live on so I like to have a group of guys over for some skirmishing. I also go to a field that's a couple hours away on occasion. I like to play the Snipers role and my current rifle just isn't gettting the job done anymore. So I'm doing as much research as I can and the Echo 1 M28 caught my eye. Link to post Share on other sites
DRAGON64 Posted February 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 Thanks for the reply! I've been airsofting for a couple years now. I have 10 acres that I live on so I like to have a group of guys over for some skirmishing. I also go to a field that's a couple hours away on occasion. I like to play the Snipers role and my current rifle just isn't gettting the job done anymore. So I'm doing as much research as I can and the Echo 1 M28 caught my eye. Not to get to far off topic, but I was on my way out of airsoft when I found the M28, and it managed to pull me back with a fever. Been going strong ever since; I also have a new TSD SD97 and I just bought my second WELL G96 from the Airsplat scrapyard (trying to build one working rifle from two defective units). On topic; there are quite a few reviews out on the M28 topic, and some really good videos too... of couse you have to weed through the videos where the rifle is reviewed while sitting on player's beds or whatever, but there are some nice shooting and outdoor reviews too. If you decide to get one, please relate back your experiences. Link to post Share on other sites
Grump3y Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 Not to get to far off topic, but I was on my way out of airsoft when I found the M28, and it managed to pull me back with a fever. Been going strong ever since; I also have a new TSD SD97 and I just bought my second WELL G96 from the Airsplat scrapyard (trying to build one working rifle from two defective units). On topic; there are quite a few reviews out on the M28 topic, and some really good videos too... of course you have to weed through the videos where the rifle is reviewed while sitting on player's beds or whatever, but there are some nice shooting and outdoor reviews too. If you decide to get one, please relate back your experiences. Alright, I think it looks like I will get the M28. I've trying to decide between the M28 and the JG Bar 10. I just don't want to spend a ton of time shoving upgrade after upgrade into it right away. Over time as they become available for the M28, I don't mind getting upgrades for it, but I really just want something that shoots "ok" out of the box. (Or at least with just a TBB.) When I get it and have used it for a bit, I'll be sure to keep you posted. Link to post Share on other sites
Isamu Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 In my small experience with snipers, I think I can tell that every ACM gun, being a bolt action or AEG, all of them have the same needs OOTB, inner barrel and hop up rubber. That said, and after reading about the M24(or M28) Platform is that its almost as good starting point as the VSR/BAR10 Link to post Share on other sites
3vi1-D4n Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 DRAGON64: Would shimming the trigger bar/sears work to prevent the sideway movement? Link to post Share on other sites
DRAGON64 Posted February 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 DRAGON64: Would shimming the trigger bar/sears work to prevent the sideway movement? It can, but finding the right shims would be a tough job. Here is a shot of the M28 trigger and piston sear assembly that cam out of my M28: Here is the trigger frame that this assembly will need to be shimmed into: I would think that two .009" shims on each side would be required to shim the trigger group. Another issue with the stock trigger group, is the weak springs used throughout. Very flimzy. The AirsoftGI VSR-10 sear assembly replaces some of these springs with tighter ones. The tighter springs do not change the trigger pull at all, it is still smooth and light. Link to post Share on other sites
climber Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 It can, but finding the right shims would be a tough job. Here is a shot of the M28 trigger and piston sear assembly that cam out of my M28: Here is the trigger frame that this assembly will need to be shimmed into: I would think that two .009" shims on each side would be required to shim the trigger group. Another issue with the stock trigger group, is the weak springs used throughout. Very flimzy. The AirsoftGI VSR-10 sear assembly replaces some of these springs with tighter ones. The tighter springs do not change the trigger pull at all, it is still smooth and light. I used shims from aeg gearbox with good result.... got mail from echo1 yesterday, seems like spare parts are on its way out to stores!!: Hi, we have the parts in stock and your local store should have them as well, later this week we will have them on the Parts Shop. Thank you, Brian Holt Lead Service Technician Echo1USA Link to post Share on other sites
mimesis Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 How is the ASGI sear set holding up? I read the reviews on the ASGI sight, and most people seemed kinda disappointed with the quality of the product. Link to post Share on other sites
DRAGON64 Posted February 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 How is the ASGI sear set holding up? I read the reviews on the ASGI sight, and most people seemed kinda disappointed with the quality of the product. Fit and finish are been excellent, but I have not shot it enough to notice wear and tear yet. My rifle has been down for about a week now, as I await the new barrel and hop-up rubber to arrive. Compared to the sear assembly that came with my m28, the AirsoftGI set has been a 100% complete improvement. Since rebuilding and lightly polishing the trigger group, the shooting experience has been nominal. On a side note, I have ordered Javelin brand .43g bbs to see if I can improve upon accuracy once I have installed the new barrel and hop-up. Link to post Share on other sites
Grump3y Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 What weight bbs would you recommend for the M28 stock? Or with a TBB? Dragon, I know you were .30's in your vids. How did those work out? Would you recommend going a little heavier? Link to post Share on other sites
DRAGON64 Posted February 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 What weight bbs would you recommend for the M28 stock? Or with a TBB? Dragon, I know you were .30's in your vids. How did those work out? Would you recommend going a little heavier? I actually have a bag of .43g bbs coming today. I have been using .30g bbs and suspected in the back of my mind that they may not be heavy enough for accurate shots. AirsoftGI had a bag of 2700 rounds of Javelin brand .43's, so I picked them up along with the barrel and hop-up bucking when I ordered. Short of it is this; I would not use any weight less than .30g for sure, but that the .43g bbs may be the ticket to getting on target more consistantly. I won't be able to check the shooting of the .43's from a stock configuration, as my rifle currently sits disassembled waiting on the upgrade parts before I re-assemble. I will test the new parts this weekend. Link to post Share on other sites
3vi1-D4n Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 Avoid madbull BBs if you want any form of accuracy. I tried their 0.43 and 0.36s and both were inconsistent as hell on every platform I have had, from AEGs to the bolt actions I have/had. Yeah I also shimmed the trigger bar/sear, seems to work ok. Will see what happens over time. On the VSR if I installed the same rated springs, the trigger bar would buckle after 5-6 shots so whatever material this stuff is made from is far stronger. Link to post Share on other sites
Grump3y Posted February 16, 2011 Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 Not to get to far off topic, but does anyone know anything about King Arms bbs? Link to post Share on other sites
farrasdevell Posted February 16, 2011 Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 the madbull/blaster/devil .4's (same bb's different QC levels) Are beter than the .36's and .43's by a fair way. So to recap a minor detail, the VSR hop chamber is slightly larger than the E1M28. i'm asking becaruse i have a noobies tdc kit that i'd want to put into this rifle. Link to post Share on other sites
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