Tokyo Marui GBB Mp7! Here WE COME!

[Baddbaz]

Tm guns are designed for the Japanese market only where their fps limit is 300 . So all their guns are designed around 134a gas

The newer guns have been failing on the stronger gasses we use over here , the xdm and 57 in particular . The 57 has an almost terminal failure when it fails , as it shears the lugs off that retain the slide , the xdm has nozzle failure on strong gasses . The px4 and older pistols survive by luck rather than by design . Luckily aftermarket company's do replacement parts to strengthen them up . Tm don't cater for the market outside of Japan so they would not design something to run on propane in the first place .

 

[bankz5152]

It was from a release video from a US retailer, possibly Evike around the time the PX4 came out.

 

Me and my team mate have run -

 

x3 1911 - plastic

x5 1911 - metal

x2 PX4 - plastic

x2 Capa - Plastic

x4 Sig - Plastic

x3 - 5.7 Plastic

x4 Desert Eagle - Cant really count it but still...

x1 XDM - Plastic

x1 M9

x3 Glock 17

 

All with zero issues, propane in temps ranging from 5c - 30c game days. Probably a lot more.

 

On top of this me and my team mate generally use pistols as primarys half the time, playing tight CQB and that. Along with home shooting they are regulary and fully used. Only issue ive ever faced with any of the pistols is having to replace a piston head. Never nozzles, never seals, never any o-rings

 

The lug design on the 5.7 bbu was just a poor design very little to do with gas pressure, chap I knew on another forum had that failure using 134a/144a.

 

The likleyhood is Ill get one of these if it is amazing as it should be I will run it solidly on propane, as a primary (average 1000 per game day, 3 game days per month, + plinking and target practice)

 

 

Also to be honest I havnt actually seen a can of 134a/144a/duster gas in the 18 months at a site.

[Eklam]

Just to let you guys know, I'm a custom kit maker, who's been doing orders for mostly for members on other forums. On the advice of CKinnerley, who I've recently made a pair of MTP trousers for, I am offering my services to members of this forum. I am making a set of hsgi taco style extended pistol mag pouches, which will fit the MP7 40rnd mags as well as extended glock and 1911 mags, for Chris. If anyone else is interested, please pm me. Meanwhile, have a look at my fb page: https://www.facebook.com/#!/flimmuurtactical123

 

Ed

 

 

Note to mods: Arnie said that I can have commercial user status, and I am awaiting the change in status.

[TheFull9]

Guys, come on, it's not even out yet.

 

It doesn't matter what they've been like in the past. There's plenty of us that fuel the pistols with propane, I always have with mine; but there's some that've broken and there's plenty of reasons not to use the higher pressures. None of this matters though, it doesn't definitely prove anything either way about the gun, what will prove the thing either way is when it actually gets in to the hands of players outside of japan who do blast a load of propane through it. Can we just wait until then to see who's right? Seems like a waste of effort right now to argue a point which cannot physically be proven one way or another until a much later date. I'm sure there's videos of cats in halloween costumes that need watching on youtube or something. Not to say I can't see the reasoning behind anyone's points and they're all backed up and well written, but it's just not serving any purpose right now if you think about it.

 

What I want to know is how anyone gets along with that horrendous cheek weld. I mean don't get me wrong you can use the gun, but personally, bleurgh....

 

In fact, now you're here Ed, I may well ask you to knock up some sort of simple pad that wraps around one of the bars further on the line as and when I pick one of these up.

[NonEx]

The bottom line is this;

 

What I am trying to get at is that I don't like it when people are saying "TMs are designed to run on Green/Propane" "TMs work fine on Green/Propane", it is not true, and you should not be spreading false information and decieving people into making a, what they think is, an informed decision about what propellants to use in their TM guns, when that decision is based on false information.

 

Please read, and re-read my post and try to understand what I am saying... And stop spreading ######.

 

And come on man... US retailer, Evike ? Yikes...

[FireKnife]

Actually it was Redwolf that claimed the PX4 can run on stronger gasses:

 

 

Plus while TM catalogues state 134a only, it is still an established fact that many TM pistols will happily, in the UK (seeing as that is where this forum is) take Green gas. It is only the latest models, the XDM and 5-7, that the major issues with Green gas have been seen and even then that has only been on very hot days with limited maintenance, which is often a shooters issue than a gun issue.

 

'FireKnife'

[Rob15]

The whole 'X gun can take X gas' is a load of simplified nonsense anyway, if it's cold enough even the most fragile gun could run on red gas even if 134a was the gas intended for use.

 

As Fireknife said, in the UK most TM pistols seem happy on green gas due to the temperatures we generally have, that doesn't detract from the fact that green gas is likely to accelerate wear when compared to 134a at the same temperatures though.

 

Some TM GBBs are more durable than others, until the MP7 is out and has been for a while we won't know how durable it is, for all we know it could turn out to be extremely reliable on green gas even in hotter countries.

[Baddbaz]

what I don't think is very wise to do is make a statement about all tm guns being able to run on propane / strong gasses . For the uneducated first time gbb user they will go out and fill their mag up and void their warranty and possibly destroy their tm gun .

Same as people who state that running a standard aeg on an 11.1 lipo will do no harm .

I get to see these broken / abused guns on a regular basis when they come into my mates shops for repair or warranty claims,

Misinformation causes a lot if these breakages , the usual;;; I read on ..... Forum or my friends use it in their guns Dosnt really cut it when the gun has been obviously abused / run on the wrong gas/ lipo .!

I used to get the same issues with rc cars ( nitro ) with people without a clue tuning their engines , brilliant for a few hours as yes the car did go faster , accelerate better , right up until the point where the engine melted / blew up

by all means use different gasses etc in your own guns after all you paid for them .but I would not be advising people especialy newbies to do the same , as their expensive gun can easily be broken destroyed by doing so

 

[FireKnife]

what I don't think is very wise to do is make a statement about all tm guns being able to run on propane / strong gasses . For the uneducated first time gbb user they will go out and fill their mag up and void their warranty and possibly destroy their tm gun .

 

Actually most shops in the UK do offer a warranty up to and including Green gas (which if you run on Propane with a properly lubed gun the average person wouldn't know the difference). However in the case of 'red' or 'black' gas you would have to be pretty stupid the even expect a typical plastic slide gun to stand up to it.

 

In fact just about every Green gas based breakage I have seen in the last year has been about 5-6 WE guns, a KSC, a KWA and a TM. The TM was running red in the summer months though. It is often the clone users, the first timers that don't have much of a clue or fed false information (often using sub par guns like the WE 1911 series) and end up breaking a gun, using the wrong gas but also not looking after it, which when combined is bad.

 

'FireKnife'

[FTZ-WildeCard]

Actually most shops in the UK do offer a warranty up to and including Green gas (which if you run on Propane with a properly lubed gun the average person wouldn't know the difference). However in the case of 'red' or 'black' gas you would have to be pretty stupid the even expect a typical plastic slide gun to stand up to it.

 

Genuine question - like who and under what conditions? (i.e. are we talking about TM products or KJW?)

[FireKnife]

The last time I checked Elite Shooting Centre and if I recall correctly Fire Support, they offered a one year warranty on all damage up to running on Green with regular user maintenance.

 

Basically if you looked after it and it broke, fine, if you just slammed it around and expected it to work then you get no help, unless you pay the service charges.

 

'FireKnife'

[NonEx]

Wow, you guys are still missing the point but Baddaz just reiterated it, let's hope if it is said enough times it will stick.

[FireKnife]

Wow, you guys are still missing the point but Baddaz just reiterated it, let's hope if it is said enough times it will stick.

 

Ok then, lets just simplify it for you.

 

TM guns work perfectly fine on Green gas / Propane, if you give them a proper clean, look after them and make sure that they are no mis-used. It is perfectly ok to recommend Green gas to a TM user here in the UK, so long as you explain that it needs to be looked after and how often to lube it.

 

Got it?

 

'FireKnife'

[FTZ-WildeCard]

Wow, you guys are still missing the point but Baddaz just reiterated it, let's hope if it is said enough times it will stick.

 

I don't agree - if retailers, especially those with immense experience such as Mike Cripps @ Elite Shooting Centre, are willing to put their names and businesses on the line to provide warranties to use TM goods on Green it is relevant information.

 

That said, all information gathered should be looked at properly to understand how useful it is -- for instance ESC only stocks 1911 and Hi-Capa variants, this is a small sample of the products TM sells and you can also say that there are no select fire items currently covered by a Green Gas friendly warranty.

 

I don't think it is enough to say "Manufacturer doesn't recommend x" -- afterall this is airsoft, have you seen how many aftermarket parts are available? Manufacturer manuals often explicitly state not to modify our RIFs but hell, we are!

[WhiteHawksan]

They also state not to shoot them at people

[FTZ-WildeCard]

They also state not to shoot them at people

 

Exactly! We've got enough evidence to suggest that shooting other people can be OK in the right circumstances. Same goes for using Green Gas in TM guns - education in the community is key here to ensure misinformation is not further spread.

[FireKnife]

That said, all information gathered should be looked at properly to understand how useful it is -- for instance ESC only stocks 1911 and Hi-Capa variants, this is a small sample of the products TM sells and you can also say that there are no select fire items currently covered by a Green Gas friendly warranty.

 

While a very good point, he has had this in place even when he was selling the other TM guns, before going all out 1911/2011. Even the Glock 18c and the Hi-Capa Xtreme got an 'ok on Green' warranty, but if asked information about maintaining and cleaning would be given, in fact any good retailer should point this out.

 

They also state not to shoot them at people

 

Unless they are wearing those cheap plastic glasses they wear in labs and standing by a tree if the TM manual is to be believed. But all airsoft companies can have contradicting information in themselves (I found a WE manual that came in a 1911 box that was clearly a TM manual cloned and in English that claimed only to use 134a, in a gun that couldn't barely cycle on it.).

 

Pic time, from a G36c Manual:

 

 

Yeah, because that looks safe / makes sense if you go by the picture (remember not all of them are in English translation)?

 

'FireKnife'

[WhiteHawksan]

Put it this way.

 

I've NEVER broken a TM anything on Green, and I've been using green for a while now.

 

Remember kiddies,

Lube, maintain and clean your GBB and it'll thank you for it in the long run, 134a or green!

[FTZ-WildeCard]

Put it this way.

 

I've NEVER broken a TM anything on Green, and I've been using green for a while now.

 

Remember kiddies,

Lube, maintain and clean your GBB and it'll thank you for it in the long run, 134a or green!

 

Hear, hear - and probably something about ambient temperatures... *mumble mumble*

[WhiteHawksan]

well, it makes fairly obvious sense NOT to run a high-pressure gas in 150F tempratures

 

But arnies is a UK based forum so UK based tempratures is what I'll use gioggity.

[FTZ-WildeCard]

 

 

Pic time, from a G36c Manual:

 

 

Yeah, because that looks safe / makes sense if you go by the picture (remember not all of them are in English translation)?

 

'FireKnife'

 

Haha, I can't remember if a O (circle) is a good thing right? .. But it's a red circle... confused.

[NonEx]

Heheh

[FireKnife]

Well as the manual only comes in red, black, white and about 50 shades of grey it means good thing. The cross means bad player.

 

Still doesn't beat the evil looking dog that keeps tinkering with the guns in the new TM manuals, that is weird.

 

'FireKnife'

[FTZ-WildeCard]

 

Still doesn't beat the evil looking dog that keeps tinkering with the guns in the new TM manuals, that is weird.

 

 

This dog?

 

[Baddbaz]

After having talked to several shops this morning the conclusion is that you can use green gas but they will not uphold warranty claims on anything stronger than 144a gas . They only reccomend use of green gas at cold temperatures in the uk

As I thought originally . They fall back onto the manufacturers recommendations for gasses to basically stop them getting an influx of propane / green gas breakage / warranty claims .