Builder jailed for a year for shooting two free jumpers

[Jagdraben]

Very true, even here in the UK it is known for people to start to only really care now if the victim is white or not lowest of low class.

 

We do have a mostly right wing propaganda spewing media machine in this country though so really it is expected and we are gradually seeing a rise in extreme right wing activities.

 

But anyway I think we have derailed this thread now .

 

'FireKnife'

 

Actually, people don't care if the victims are minorities or white, unless the perp is white.

 

Black guy kills a black guy? No one cares. Black guy kills a hispanic guy? No one cares. Hispanic guy (who looks kinda white) kills a black guy? HANG HIM IN THE STREET!

 

Black kid kills a bunch of black kids? No one cares. White guy kills a bunch of middle-class white kids? ERMAGERD, BAN ALL THE GUNS!

 

I guess it's the exceptional that makes headlines - Dog Bites Man doesn't sell, but Man Bites Dog does, as they say. But it also creates the illusion that somehow violence committed with firearms is primarily committed with "assault rifles" (it isn't - it's committed with handguns, the one class of firearm specifically protected by SCotUS in Heller v DC) and is primarily committed by white guys against children and minorities (it isn't - it's primarily committed by minority persons against other minority persons).

 

You say  "gangsters killing gangsters" but as you are "just sayin" you might aswell "just say" black on black violence... in any case I'm sure people would be upset if "DeShawn" got off scott free if he claimed self defense without any evidence of it.

 

Not to mention that yes, there is a difference between "Luke" shooting "Tyrone", and that difference is known as "racism".

 

Assumes facts not in evidence.

 

There is no reason to assume that Tyrone was shot by Luke because Luke was racist. There is no reason to assume that Tyrone was shot by DeShawn because DeShawn was not racist.

[Skarclaw]

A black kid in a hoodie "Tyrone" got killed by "Luke" because "Luke" - already living in a world of fear as evidenced by the gun he carried - made a racially-based assumption. As for "Tyrone and DeShawn" that's a particular kind of self loathing (like Jerry Seinfeld being anti-Semitic) which I'm not sure is too common...

[Jagdraben]

Carrying a gun is no more evidence that one lives in a world of fear than living in Saudi Arabia is proof of being Muslim.

 

Whether or not Tyrone died because Juan (not Luke) was racist is a matter of speculation - we don't know that Tyrone's race was a driving factor in Juan following him.

 

What is recorded as fact - from testimony given by Tyrone's own girlfriend in a court of law and evidence recovered from Tyrone's home and personal belongings - is that Tyrone died because he was a homophobic, drug-addled apprentice gangsta who had been kicked out of his mother's house for being what he was and decided to go shopping for sugar to sweeten his illegal pharmaceuticals and his chosen victim - who found the idea of a teenager wandering a wealthy neighborhood at 2 in the morning to be suspicious - wasn't the helpless twink Tyrone thought he was.

 

As for people being racist against their own ethnicity, that's not unheard-of. It is a well-recorded fact that many Germans working for Hitler were Jews and knew their work was intended to hurt other Jews and carried it out with absolute glee, forsaking their religion and their families - only to be shocked when the Nazis decided that maybe the helpful Jews should be treated the same as any other Jews.

 

Hell. I remember watching people from the NAACP argue on national television about whether or not Obama was black enough to be black. And you don't think that the term "oreo" (coined by impoverished black Americans to refer to middle-class black Americans) might be just a little bit racist?

[Skarclaw]

Yeah I would say that carrying a gun is evidence of living in a world of fear - an exception being perhaps one where you have to carry one for your job, an even then I'd say they are likely to be scary situations! You can dress it up as "preparation" if it makes you feel more secure

 

 

Regarding your other things I disagree with that. "drug addled" - you mean he was a cannabis smoker? "apprentice gangsta" - you mean he was part of "street culture" - do you have much exposure to this in rural Montana? (srs question not a slight) Its a bit of a character assassination akin to describing, lets say, you, as an "apprentice paramilitary"...

 

As for "Oreo's" it would be racist if it came from a white person... do you get upset if a black guy calls another a nigger?

[spetsnazdave87]

Skarclaw, I'd advise reading up on the facts of the Trayvon thing before you end up looking rather silly. There's a reason Zimmerman was found not guilty. 

 

For one thing, look at the photos of Zimmerman's face taken right after the shooting. Martin gave the guy a pasting, including smashing his head repeatedly into the pavement before he was shot.

 

 

I could go on, but it's a bit off topic. 

[Skarclaw]

I'm aware of that thank you - this is where it all went wrong - have a go hero :

 

"Dispatcher: Are you following him?

Zimmerman: Yeah.
Dispatcher: Okay, we don't need you to do that."

 

 

 

but really what I am taking issue with is "Of course, nobody cares when little Tyrone gets shot by DeShawn, only when Tyrone gets shot by Luke." which I don't think takes into the account the racial context, but whatever. 

[FireKnife]

There's a reason Zimmerman was found not guilty.

 

As his investigation was upheld by a law in the US that gives the option of excessive or lethal force to defend oneself and ones property as that is how I see it.

 

Now while I can see the argument from both camps being that it was a situation in which the only true responder on the scene was the shooter it makes it hard to really factor in another story other than what he claimed and thus, using the defence granted by such a law he has gone free. This of course will raise allegations on both sides and will lead to the typical excessive protests to the firearms owneship situation in the US both for and against. In truth the only way we really could have known the truth is if the victim beat the attacker and the attacker didn't have a firearm in which to fataly shoot him, leaving him alive to give his statement. To me it feels like one that, given what I know I can't say anything bar how stupid parts of the Stand Your Ground law can sound.

 

But any way that is my off topic part done for today.

 

'FireKnife'

[Skarclaw]

I think we can conclude that the only thing you can responsibly use an air rifle to shoot of a roof is a cat.

[Azubi]

Skarclaw, do you think every white person is racist?

 

*EDIT*

 

I ask this because it reads as if you are saying that if a white guy kills a black guy then race MUST be a determining factor.

 

*badger*s.

[Skarclaw]

No of course not!  I was referring to this:

 

" Of course, nobody cares when little Tyrone gets shot by DeShawn, only when Tyrone gets shot by Luke."

 

edit: I do think that race was a determining factor in the killing of Travyon Martin and I'm not the only one that thinks this!

 

edit 2: I do think alot of white people have a slightly skewed perception of racism though. pm if you fancy

[spetsnazdave87]

No, you're not the only one who thinks this, plenty of others bought into that particular load of horseshit too. Actually, the prosecution completely abandoned the race card in their attempt to jail Zimmerman. Independent commentators said that was because the defence had so many witnesses that could vouch for Zimmerman's lack of racism, they realised they couldn't sell it to a jury. Not really a 'race card'. 

 

Next up, yeah, the idea that 'no-one cares when little Tyrone gets shot by DeShawn', is sadly true, but it's not as racist as you think. Mainly because the vast majority of black on black crime in this country and in the states is gang-related/crime-related, and the victim getting killed is as guilty as the one doing the killing. Police call them 'buy one get one free'. As a result, media don't report on them because it's hard to maintain outrage and sell papers/ keep viewing figures up when it's some scumbag getting shot in an alley.

 

However, get a dodgy shooting where a neighbourhood watch volunteer kills a black kid that you can deliberately spin and present as a hate crime in the press despite having VERY little evidence of such a thing, get all these Hollywood and music stars and even the president joining in to talk about what a little angel Trayvon was (while conveniently ignoring the fact he was fast turning into a little scumbag), show pictures of Trayvon that were all taken years before he was killed so he looked as innocent as possible, then ignore a load of key evidence at the crime scene that would add a ton of credence to the fact that Zimmerman got the snot beaten out of him by 'innocent Trayvon', and then you've got a bonafide media sensation. 

 

There's a reason Zimmerman was initially not charged until the president got involved, and a reason he was acquitted. Because what the media told you about the case was 80% . 

 

I have a very cynical view of racism. I hate it with a passion. And I'd love to hear about how my perception is 'skewed'.

[Habakure]

Wow. I wonder if we can have a section for extreme off topic (no actual threads, just one with thoughts/questions). The one thing about the Tyrone case, is, that if DeShawn had stayed in his car, Tyrone would be alive. It boils down to, do as the dispatcher tells you. For all we know, DeShawn approached Tyrone displaying the fact, that he was carrying a gun. I say that as my memory of the case is a little hazy, I'm going to read up on it now.

[Skarclaw]

No, you're not the only one who thinks this, plenty of others bought into that particular load of horseshit too. Actually, the prosecution completely abandoned the race card in their attempt to jail Zimmerman. Independent commentators said that was because the defence had so many witnesses that could vouch for Zimmerman's lack of racism, they realised they couldn't sell it to a jury. Not really a 'race card'. 

 

Next up, yeah, the idea that 'no-one cares when little Tyrone gets shot by DeShawn', is sadly true, but it's not as racist as you think. Mainly because the vast majority of black on black crime in this country and in the states is gang-related/crime-related, and the victim getting killed is as guilty as the one doing the killing. Police call them 'buy one get one free'. As a result, media don't report on them because it's hard to maintain outrage and sell papers/ keep viewing figures up when it's some scumbag getting shot in an alley.

 

However, get a dodgy shooting where a neighbourhood watch volunteer kills a black kid that you can deliberately spin and present as a hate crime in the press despite having VERY little evidence of such a thing, get all these Hollywood and music stars and even the president joining in to talk about what a little angel Trayvon was (while conveniently ignoring the fact he was fast turning into a little scumbag), show pictures of Trayvon that were all taken years before he was killed so he looked as innocent as possible, then ignore a load of key evidence at the crime scene that would add a ton of credence to the fact that Zimmerman got the snot beaten out of him by 'innocent Trayvon', and then you've got a bonafide media sensation. 

 

There's a reason Zimmerman was initially not charged until the president got involved, and a reason he was acquitted. Because what the media told you about the case was 80% ######. 

 

I have a very cynical view of racism. I hate it with a passion. And I'd love to hear about how my perception is 'skewed'.

 

ok at no point have I ever said you have a skewed version of racism so I can hardly demonstrate!

 

I don't think Martin was turning into a "scumbag" and in any case he was 17 - not all are angels at that age. 

 

Given the circumstances I don't think it was surprising that it had the reaction it did - especially in america!

[Danke]

Back on topic if it was me I'd just say I was giving them free speedholes. Don't kid yourself, it's an expensive procedure and I'd be really doing them a favor.

[Habakure]

Speed holes? Sounds very risky to me (children remember, that may comes across a bit, you know, pervy).

[Danke]

Risk is my business.

[Jagdraben]

 

Yeah I would say that carrying a gun is evidence of living in a world of fear - an exception being perhaps one where you have to carry one for your job, an even then I'd say they are likely to be scary situations! You can dress it up as "preparation" if it makes you feel more secure

 

 

Regarding your other things I disagree with that. "drug addled" - you mean he was a cannabis smoker? "apprentice gangsta" - you mean he was part of "street culture" - do you have much exposure to this in rural Montana? (srs question not a slight) Its a bit of a character assassination akin to describing, lets say, you, as an "apprentice paramilitary"...

 

As for "Oreo's" it would be racist if it came from a white person... do you get upset if a black guy calls another a nigger?

 

 

Saying that someone carrying a gun lives in a world of fear is what those in the psychiatry community call "projection".

 

And, no, I don't mean he just smoked pot (although he did) - I meant he was fond of drinking prodigious amounts of Robitussin… with Skittles and tea. I don't mean he was part of "street culture". Unless street culture involves teenagers illegally possessing handguns and deciding that the appropriate response to being bothered by someone is to beat the *suitcase* out of them or kill them.

 

And, no, I don't care what a black person calls another black person. But Oreo is racist. 

 

Calling me an "apprentice paramilitary" is not exactly accurate. But it's not far off, either, and being a paramilitary is not something I aspire to. Unlike the dead man in question, who longed to be a real gangster.

[Skarclaw]

I didn't know you were a Freudian Jag. I'm not, so we'll agree to disagree I guess!

 

I don't think that his drug use and his behaviour - justified what happened to him. Again he was only 17 you have people that  have done far worse at that age and are now "model citizens" so to speak... Are you the same person you were when you were 17? 

 

As for the "assault" it appears that Zimmerman - quite a bit bigger, not to mention the firearm(!) started the confrontation and a scuffle seemed obvious. Perhaps why the police call handler said he didn't need to follow him...

 

This is probably going to go round in circles. I've not really heard oreo in the UK as bourbons are far more popular and essentially the same thing... except they are black on the inside AND the outside

[Habakure]

I believe the uk version of Oreo, is choc ice. I first heard of it during the John Terry case and t was aimed at Ashley Cole by someone on twitter (on Rio Ferdenandz tweeter feed). It's a very racist term.

[Hardcore1-6]

I've just been through an equality and diversity 'workshop' with work - the outcome of one of their discussions was that the view to what is and isn't racist no longer lies with those involved, anyone can report something as racist regardless of the target.

 

Person A says that person person B an oreo. Person B takes no offence as they are friends. 

 

 

Person A says that person B is an oreo. Person C over hears this and thinks its racist. They report it and person A is now a racist.

[FireKnife]

Person A says that person B is an oreo. Person C over hears this and thinks its racist. They report it and person A is now a racist.

 

Sums up the stupidity of this country really. People that are generally just offended by everything can now moan about things they have nothing to do with and, here is the bit that makes me worry, be listened to and considered!?

 

Next you know we can call each other Sir and Madam and that is it, oh no wait someone will say that is gender defining and sexist. Ok 'person' it is. We are now all persons.

 

'FireKnife'

[Skarclaw]

the word you are looking for there is "people".

[FireKnife]

Nope I bet someone will find that insulting too, in fact I am sure someone will find 'person' seperats us from the animals and then we are called Mammal instead.

 

To be honest I despise racism, sexism, homophobia and basically anything else that infringes on things that people don't choose but are born that way. Everyone deserves to not be abused for things like race and sex but between two people that are friends and understand that they find it funny I don't think anyone else should butt in on that.

 

But then racism just causes so many problems, often among people too stupid to understand that they are the problem.

 

Anyway, rant over. Back to your usual programming. I assume the case posted by the OP is finalised now and one builder is in jail for making a stupid response to a situation that could have been handled in a better manner.

 

'FireKnife'

[Skarclaw]

Nope I bet someone will find that insulting too, in fact I am sure someone will find 'person' seperats us from the animals and then we are called Mammal instead.

 

 

That's just stupid

[Skarclaw]

dp