XM8

[badkarma1354]

Special forces use the AR15 because that is what they were trained on. If you have hours upon hours of training with one weapon, why would you decide to use a different one? The AR15 system is heavily flawed and there is no denying the facts. It has its uses and is a good weapon in some cases. But, it is not a very good and was only chosen because it could be made cheaply and it performed the best out of that price range.

[Krazy L]

Mahahaa... I just know how great H&K weapons are compared to a crappy AR15 design. Have you ever fired a G36? I don't think so.

 

If you want to believe the propaganda from some hardcore AR15 lovers... please go on. It's typical American behavior.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Why yes i have. and yes i would still take an ar15 over the g36. so shove mister know it all

[tehhungrysmurf]

Why yes i have. and yes i would still take an ar15 over the g36. so shove mister know it all

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

He is an SF Operator. he gave some Ghost Recon Developers a tour at Ft.Bragg. Unless he says "AR15s are teh PONZES!" Theres no way to be sure he is an "American Ar-15 fanatic"

 

If you knew alot about the AR-15, you would know that while its a pretty ###### design, it still works very good(at least the newer ones work very well). Even on hkpro many people say that the G36 isnt a very good weapon system. Can you tell me what Brand of AR you ever fired?

 

Also, the HK416 was nothing new. All H&K did was replace some parts on the AR-15 and make the barrel shorter. And the parts they replaced had been availible for Ar-15s for awhile(even though Gas Pistons uppers are just starting to get to M4's in Iraq). Plus, if they are so brillant why did they make one of the M4's flaws bigger by making the barrel shorter?

 

H&K are masters of advertisments. While some of their weapons are pretty great(USP, Mk23, MP5) others arnt.

 

And no, im pretty Liberal with my views. So if i was old enough, Kerry would have gotten my vote..

 

Why doesnt everyone on earth use G36's? XM8's?

Why doesnt everyone make their guns out of plastic if it works so well?

 

And I dont really care about those tests, nor have i seen results.

[Hissing_Sid]

Why is the AR15 system inferior in most independent firearm tests?

Why was the AR15 outperformed in nearly every procurement program outside the United States by other firearms?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

More to the point, why aren't the same issues raised during DOMESTIC tests?

 

SOCOM relaxed the requirement for a lockable slide when Colt couldn't build one when HK maneged to.

 

The CIA and FBI have put rules in place which almost preclude the use of nasty ol' guns which don't have a manual safety-catch (Clue: Glock) and there's also the ongoing feud whereby I understand that Glock refuse to submit a pistol for military approval cos the US government insists that the successful design hand over plans and tooling and build the guns in the US of A.

 

Same mindset applies to the Armalite design.

 

You've only got to take a look at the number of Glock-hating, HK-hating and Beretta-hating websites all put up by US citizens who continually bang on that the damned 1911 is still the best pistol, which any fool could tell you clearly isn't the case.

Don't these guys realise that the sentiment is not reciprocated?

All over the world people are shooting Berettas and Glocks and simplynot caring about 1911s one way or the other.

 

Mind you, most Americans will still say that a Harley is the best bike and that a Corvette is the best car so what can you expect?

 

Insular, blinkered, prejudiced, and racist. Gotta love the land of the free.

[tehhungrysmurf]

Insular, blinkered, prejudiced, and racist. Gotta love the land of the free.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Gotta Love Rampant European Ameican sterotyping.

[Hissing_Sid]

Gotta Love Rampant European Ameican sterotyping.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'd worry if I was on a US based forum.

[Sledge]

Now, to prove that comment, you have to show where Sid has said something that isn't true. Go.

 

[AustinWolv]

Insular, blinkered, prejudiced, and racist. Gotta love the land of the free.

Wow. Even the regulars launch into it. This topic has gone from annoying to downright disappointing. Congratulations all. So much for just enjoying airsoft while visiting here.

 

The pot calls the kettle....

[Hissing_Sid]

Wow.  Even the regulars launch into it.  This topic has gone from annoying to downright disappointing.  Congratulations all.  So much for just enjoying airsoft while visiting here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hang on.

 

No need to get all stroppy.

 

If you want to get hacked off with brits for being lilly-livered, tea-drinking ponces with dodgy haircuts and bad teeth then I won't be offended cos I'm not any of those things.

 

That's the thing about remarks. They only tend to bite at those people who think they apply to them.

 

If you are a person who sees, for example, that the MP5 is probably the most popular SMG in the world and that HK have released a stream of high-quality products for 40 years whereas Armalite have pretty much had one lucky designhit which they've been banging away at for the same period then you're NOT the person I'm talking to.

 

There ARE people in the USA who will continue to state that the 1911 is teh b35tz0rz P1st0| and the same about the Armalite irrespective of all the evidence to the contrary.

These are the people who my statements are aimed at.

 

And there's one living in the White House right now.

[AustinWolv]

That's the thing about remarks. They only tend to bite at those people who think they apply to them.

Wrong. They also serve to label things or people as something that people who haven't had first-hand experience with that thing or person will latch onto and then spread as gospel. Much the same way that many Airsoft products get a bad rep, just because someone says one thing is wrong with it (true or not), and then everyone latches on to that.

 

And if you must focus on it, I prefer HK products, owning an USP myself.....if you need such information in order to validate someone's opinion as acceptable as opposed as just another ugly, boistrous American.

[Hissing_Sid]

And if you must focus on it, I prefer HK products, owning an USP myself.....if you need such information in order to validate someone's opinion as acceptable as opposed as just another ugly, boistrous American.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not at all.

 

That's the thing, you see. Most people are happy to just own whatever they own and not try to tell people that it's superior than an alternative item.

 

And, again, without meaning to be insulting, I'll argue to the death the fact that the american economy and government is one of the most self-serving and prejudiced ones in the world.

You guys (in general) DO have a philosophy of "America first and f**k everybody else."

Now, personally, I'd probably do the same if I was Prime Minister of the UK. However, it's not smart to be so blatant about that attitude.

[edit: I dare you to imply that Americas "Global Policeman" role somehow proves this to be incorrect]

 

Coming back to the topic of guns (finally) I have no idea why the XM8 was dumped (if, indeed, it has been). Maybe it was dumped cos it IS junk but it's easy to see several examples of occasions where US official bodies have been prejudiced toward US built products even if a superior product is available from an overseas supplier.

That's why people like Uni' get the hump when Krazy L and smurf-guy start trying to say that the Armalite IS the better gun.

[tehhungrysmurf]

Hang on.

 

No need to get all stroppy.

 

If you want to get hacked off with brits for being lilly-livered, tea-drinking ponces with dodgy haircuts and bad teeth then I won't be offended cos I'm not any of those things.

 

That's the thing about remarks. They only tend to bite at those people who think they apply to them.

 

If you are a person who sees, for example, that the MP5 is probably the most popular SMG in the world and that HK have released a stream of high-quality products for 40 years whereas Armalite have pretty much had one lucky designhit which they've been banging away at for the same period then you're NOT the person I'm talking to.

 

There ARE people in the USA who will continue to state that the 1911 is teh b35tz0rz P1st0| and the same about the Armalite irrespective of all the evidence to the contrary.

These are the people who my statements are aimed at.

 

And there's one living in the White House right now.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I wouldnt Say that H&K has made nothing but great weapons. But some are very good. I like the M4 because Ive hear that many are very good guns(atleast the Colt's are) and i like the look. The M16 and M4 arent the best weapons, but arnt as bad as you guys make them out to be.

 

And hey...I like 1911's(not as much as Mk23's )

 

Whatever believe whatever you want. I believe The M4 and M16 series of rifles are quality weapons that work well(atleast the ones from Colt). You guys believe they are ######. Fine. this is going nowhere so its better to stop it.

 

Hissing sid, everyone was posting ###### that had nothing to do with airsoft.

 

"The last thing we need around here is more redneck US gun-bunnies."

 

Nice name calling.

[expvideo]

More to the point, why aren't the same issues raised during DOMESTIC tests?

 

SOCOM relaxed the requirement for a lockable slide when Colt couldn't build one when HK maneged to.

 

The CIA and FBI have put rules in place which almost preclude the use of nasty ol' guns which don't have a manual safety-catch (Clue: Glock) and there's also the ongoing feud whereby I understand that Glock refuse to submit a pistol for military approval cos the US government insists that the successful design hand over plans and tooling and build the guns in the US of A.

 

Same mindset applies to the Armalite design.

 

You've only got to take a look at the number of Glock-hating, HK-hating and Beretta-hating websites all put up by US citizens who continually bang on that the damned 1911 is still the best pistol, which any fool could tell you clearly isn't the case.

Don't these guys realise that the sentiment is not reciprocated?

All over the world people are shooting Berettas and Glocks and simplynot caring about 1911s one way or the other.

 

Mind you, most Americans will still say that a Harley is the best bike and that a Corvette is the best car so what can you expect?

 

Insular, blinkered, prejudiced, and racist. Gotta love the land of the free.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hate to be a d!ck sid, but... STFU and bash on your own country. You obviously have never been over here. And if you have you didn't open your eyes and ears to what Americans really think. That or you were in Texas. Most of us like Asian cars, and those of us that can afford it like European cars. And as for guns?

 

Please be kind enough to mention ONE law enforcement agency (large enough to mention, and not specialized groups like LAPD SWAT) that issues an American gun. I'll lay off this entirely if you can prove me wrong when I say that at least 90% of US law enforcement officers use a pistol made by a foreign country.

 

Aaron

 

[expvideo]

Hang on.

 

No need to get all stroppy.

 

If you want to get hacked off with brits for being lilly-livered, tea-drinking ponces with dodgy haircuts and bad teeth then I won't be offended cos I'm not any of those things.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Excuse me?! When did we say that? are you making yet another assumption about us? Pot and kettle is right! you call us prejudice!?!? I'll have you know most americans don't see the british as that way. We are actually a little more informed. And if some of us do make fun of our cultural differences, I'd hardly say joking holds a flame to calling us ignorant, prejudice, and racist.

 

Aaron

[Sledge]

Right, let's look at what Sid said. Are you denying that there are American websites deriding Beretta, Glock and H&K whilst stating the 1911 is the best pistol ever?

 

Now, be honest, do most Americans feel that Harleys and Corvettes are best? Not what do they drive, but what they think is best.

 

[badkarma1354]

I think that we all just need to let this thread die. It has gone from a civilized talk about guns to a country bashing gala. Every gun has a flaw and every country has a flaw. Now lets try to not fixate on these flaws and politely agree to disagree.

[expvideo]

Right, let's look at what Sid said. Are you denying that there are American websites deriding Beretta, Glock and H&K whilst stating the 1911 is the best pistol ever?

 

Now, be honest, do most Americans feel that Harleys and Corvettes are best? Not what do they drive, but what they think is best.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

No. We like BMW and Mercedes more. I don't know a single person who likes the corvette. Most of us acknowledge the fact that most American made cars are pieces of *beep*. And harleys are only popular with harley lovers. Most Americans like Japanese bikes, or Ducati.

 

As for pistols, every website is biased, and of all of my friends, none of us own an American gun because they are over priced and lak the reliability we demand. The closest thing anyone has is a Para, and that's made in Canada.

 

Aaron

 

BTW, why don't you stop relating the American people with American media outlets? please? We don't support the propaganda they ###### out. Same with our politicians. Who coincidentally control the media, and would advertise american products because it is more beneficial to the economy. So seriously, STFU instead of assuming things about us based on biased sources that WE don't control.

[M1911A2 guy]

Mahahaa... I just know how great H&K weapons are compared to a crappy AR15 design. Have you ever fired a G36? I don't think so.

 

If you want to believe the propaganda from some hardcore AR15 lovers... please go on. It's typical American behavior.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Very stereotypical post, Uni, but its not unlike everybody on this forum, so what the hell.

I am going to request this topic gets closed. It went from discussing three different weapon designs to, " Hey, lets say *beep* about American behaviour in an outstandignly hipocritical way". So, mods, please close this flame war. There aren't enough Americans on this forum to hold off the European offensive that has begun over the last two pages. Unless everyone can get their *beep* together and stop all of the nationalist comments, there is no reason to let this continue on any longer.

[Sledge]

Of course every websote is biased. THAT'S THE POINT SID IS MAKING.

 

[expvideo]

Sid said Americans not American media. It is sickening to relate us to those pieces of *beep*.

[ColSanders]

Harley's... potato potato potato potato potato...

Corvette... a low truck in the body of a sports car.

 

It's all stereotypes unfortuantely. And as in everything in the wrold as we all know there is no best...

 

All the police officers I know of save maybe two stick to none american guns, the vast majority SIG and Glock... the others prefering a colt .45 and the other some S&W...

 

Unfortunately we live in a society built on assumptions and stereotypes...

 

Of all the stereotypes listed above and what I know of Americans and brits... none are true...

 

Alex "Col Sanders"

[M1911A2 guy]

Right, let's look at what Sid said. Are you denying that there are American websites deriding Beretta, Glock and H&K whilst stating the 1911 is the best pistol ever? 

 

Now, be honest, do most Americans feel that Harleys and Corvettes are best? Not what do they drive, but what they think is best.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Sorry for the double post, but I honestly don't care right now.

 

 

Now, being honest, there are very, very few Americans who think the Chevrolet Corvette is the best car in the world. There are Japanese, European and Americans of every style, shape, size and drivetrain that would destroy the 'Vette for a fraction of the price. And Americans know this. Hell, 95% of America considers the 'Vette the old man's sports car. So, being totally, with all of my heart, swear on families life honest, Americans don't think that any Chevrolet is the best vehicle in the world. They have good trucks and so-so econoboxes, but the C6 Corvette takes a mile of runway to hit 154MPH, and the writers of the article said that the car was struggling past 120.

 

But, why can't you look outside the box on this situation? How many Europeans think Ducattis and Porches are the best? How many Brits have claimed the TVR Tuscan as being the best sports car in the world? Or Austrians that claim the AUG superior over every other assault rifle on the planet? Brits claiming the same of the SA80? There is a certain German on this website that would argue with God himself over H&K making the best anything.(Which I don't mind. He is entitled to an opinion and actually has reason for it.) So please, next time anybody makes a post like the one Sledge made(Uh, the one I qouted asshat) don't try and play it off like the Americans are the only people who have done it. Please

 

PS: I am not a big GM fan, but even the bowtie fanboys would call the 'Vette the best.

[Sledge]

Gad, Americans are touchy. As Sid said, these kind of remarks only bother people about whom they're true.

 

Oh, and show an example where H&K don't make the best of something. They used to be British owned, you know. Explains their excellence.

 

[Hissing_Sid]

This just came up in a PM I just sent...

 

I think the problem is quite a simple one really.

 

If you say "I like the Armalite best." then that's fine.

If you say "The Armalite is best." then that's where frustration sets in.

 

Nobody can find fault with your opinion.

 

I have no problem with people saying that they like a particular gun best. Go for it. Knock yourself out.

The problems start when you begin to try to prove that fact.

 

That's when you start to get people shouting louder and louder to make THEIR point.

 

I'll be honest. I DO think that US culture is heavily prejudiced towards domestically produced items. Maybe that's a good thing.

It's probably a good thing to do in a domestic environment but you might want to leave that attitude at home when you travel.

 

BTW, lived in Palm Springs for 4 years. Work for companies like Exxon and Marathon all the time.

I have a pretty good handle on what most americans are like.

 

[edit]

If it'll calm things down I'll apologise for using phrases like "prejudiced and racist" so broadly. There ARE elements like that in the USA but I definately wasn't trying to imply that they are in the majority OR that anybody here is that way inclined.

 

What I was saying was simply that those kinds of viewpoints DO exist in the USA and they gain credibility with repetition.

 

Hope this calms things down a bit cos I do like a bit of discussion and it's a shame when somebody spits the dummy out and whnes that the thread should be shut just cos different POVs are being traded.

 

[edit2]

Also, bear in mind that however insulting you might feel I'm being I will never resort to telling somebody to STFU or make other personal insults.

Worth considering.

[Skarclaw]

I like harleys.