Tanio-Koba Twist Barrel

[NOE15]

Anyone have any experience with the Tanio-Koba Twist Barrel, or any other twist barrel? Did a search on the forum and found nothing. Are they worth it or just a gimmick?

[snowman]

Doh!

[snowman]

I had a TK VP70M - Wasn't especially accurate.

 

I've never REALLY understood how they're supposed to work, since they can't work like real rifling or the friction would cause the BB to fall out of the end of the barrel!

 

Cheers.

[bjorn]

I just dont get it how can you put the twist and the hopup system together. Hopup works vertically but the twist mashes it all up?

[Hissing_Sid]

I just dont get it how can you put the twist and the hopup system together. Hopup works vertically but the twist mashes it all up?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The twist barrel works by channeling air along the grooves to create a vortex behind the BB which ensures it floats accurately along the centre of the barrel.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Utter boll0cks.

 

where to start?

Well, the hop-up puts backspin on the BB. As soon as this happens the BB will lift and touch the top of the barrel. For the TK barrel to work it'd have to, somehow, channel more air along the top of the barrel than the bottom.

 

Then there's the grooves themselves. Given that the BB is probably gonn be skating along the top side of the barrel the BB is gonna hit the grooves as it travels along the barrel. That probably isn't a good thing.

 

Then there's the fact that if the barrels smallest bore is small enough for the BB to not touch it then it's probably something like 6.04mm at least. Having rifling inside the barrel means more air can escape past the BB and, thus, reduce power.

You'd need to fit a stronger spring to return your gun to its original power after fitting one of these.

 

Then there's the fact that the laws of physics suggest that if there is any swirling inside the barrel then that motion will be imparted to the BB. If the BB is back-spinning because of the hop-up AND side-spinning because of the twist barrel then the BB is gonna veer off at an angle instead of flying straight.

 

I had a TK twist barrel built into an SG1 for a while. I have a mate who wanted to buy my gun but, instead, I built one exactly like mine for him. Except that, out of curiousity, I fitted a twist barrel in his gun.

My gun, with a 6.04mm barrel, could outshoot his every time. The twist barrel was nothing special at all.

Because I'd sold him the gun and told him that I was fitting a "special" barrel I couldn't suggest swapping back to the marui barrel for comparison.

 

After a couple of months, however, he realised he'd been used as a guinea pig and I had to give him the 6.04mm barrel out of my gun.

This IMMEDIATELY made his gun a lot more accurate.

I fitted the twist barrel back into my gun and it was a lot worse. I then re-fitted a stock TM barrel. To be charitable, the TK barrel was about the same as a stock Marui barrel.

 

Personally, I doubt that the twist does anything at all except make the barrel slightly looser and maybe jiggle the BB around inside it.

 

The ONLY thing I can suggest is that the twist barrel is for use in guns with power MUCH higher than 1J. If that was the case, of course, any gun would become more accurate at range because you would be extending the guns performance envelope.

Upgrade 2 guns equally, fit a twist barrel in one and a 6.04 in the other and I bet the 6.04 would always be more accurate..

 

Beyond that, the only people who'll say anything good about the twist barrel are people who own them.

Personally, I don't like to appear stupid so I rarely admit when I've bought something that's junk. I suppose the same is true of most people.

 

Lastly, there's the price. If it's so great, how come a decent smooth-bore costs almost double the price of the twist barrel?

[Corporate_Black_Ops]

Just as a (barely) related aside:

There is a hop system which utilises airflow rather than a rubber to spin the BB and does so very effectively.

The barrel itself has a single groove running along the top, inside rather than out, which channels a small quantity of gas past the BB, this air moves more quickly than the rest of the air in the barrel and creates a pressure differential which pushes the BB against the top of the barrel. This contact creates a backspin in the BB throughout its travel.

Because the groove is only effective as long as gas is moving along it the hop system is ineffective in an AEG however it is reputedly far superior (though not to the extent of an LRB) in an appropriate weapon.

 

However, AFAIK a twist barrel isn't actually a hop. It's designed (to my knowledge) for people who are concerned with consistency of accuracy rather than range - practical pistol shooters for example. The problem with most hop systems is that they are inconsistent, they vary far too much from shot to shot, turning the hop off isn't an option because lacking spin the BB will do what it likes (though I have been told that a good pistol will be more accurate without hop than with). The spin yielded by the TK barrel is an ideal for these people, as it's solid state (as it were) it's far more predictable than a standard hop.

Not good for range perhaps - but sometimes range isn't what's important.

[Hissing_Sid]

Firstly, the barrel has a cut-out in the end so it's obviously designed to work with a hop-up.

 

Secondly, even without the hop-up, there's nothing to suggest that a twist barrel would be better than a stock smooth-bore in a gun.

 

Thirdly, my SG1, fitted with a 6.03 barrel, is far more accurate than a twist barrel.

[NOE15]

Thanks for all the replies. Just what I wanted to hear. My point behind using such a barrel is as Black Ops said, to gain consistency. Hop ups are a great simple solution but too inconsistent. I wouldn't use the Hop up at all, just count on the twist, if it really worked. Unfortunately only having one person's experience is not enough to try it. I would like to hear from more people to see if they all had the same negative experience as Hissing Sid did. Once again, thanks for all the great input.

[Hissing_Sid]

Thanks for all the replies. Just what I wanted to hear. My point behind using such a barrel is as Black Ops said, to gain consistency. Hop ups are a great simple solution but too inconsistent. I wouldn't use the Hop up at all, just count on the twist, if it really worked.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thing is, there's nothing to suggest that the twist barrel would be any better than a smoothbore barrel even without a hop-up.

 

It hardly seems possible that the accuracy of the twist barrel would get better and the smoothbore would get worse when no hop-up was used.

 

TBH, and I dunno if this sounds smart-assed, I doubt you'll find anybody else who's actually bought one. A while back there was a lot of fairly heated discussion about if they work or not but nobody actually owned one. I bought one specifically to test the concept out.

[Sale]

Just as a (barely) related aside:

There is a hop system which utilises airflow rather than a rubber to spin the BB and does so very effectively.

The barrel itself has a single groove running along the top, inside rather than out, which channels a small quantity of gas past the BB, this air moves more quickly than the rest of the air in the barrel and creates a pressure differential which pushes the BB against the top of the barrel. This contact creates a backspin in the BB throughout its travel.

Because the groove is only effective as long as gas is moving along it the hop system is ineffective in an AEG however it is reputedly far superior (though not to the extent of an LRB) in an appropriate weapon.

 

However, AFAIK a twist barrel isn't actually a hop. It's designed (to my knowledge) for people who are concerned with consistency of accuracy rather than range - practical pistol shooters for example. The problem with most hop systems is that they are inconsistent, they vary far too much from shot to shot, turning the hop off isn't an option because lacking spin the BB will do what it likes (though I have been told that a good pistol will be more accurate without hop than with). The spin yielded by the TK barrel is an ideal for these people, as it's solid state (as it were) it's far more predictable than a standard hop.

Not good for range perhaps - but sometimes range isn't what's important.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ah, you're talking about one sort of an LRB. The groove actually runs on the underside of the barrel to give the backspin. It wasn't a great success, and an offset base is a far more popular LRB type among classic airsofters. Classic guns have no other option, because a regular hop up can't be installed. On an AEG, a regular Hop Up is much better than an LRB.

 

-Sale

[Wege]

I could not get the twist barrel to work "WELL" with my KSC G17. It worked.. just not great

[Lord_Satorious]

A test by Renegade Recon would suggest otherwise for the Tanio Koba twist barrels. Here's a direct link to the report; Accuracy and Range Field Test.

 

The rifled barrels are designed to work with AEGs shooting a muzzle velocity of one Joule or less. They do work with hop-up. Too powerful a spring will send the BB up and to the right I believe.

[bullzebub]

Arent RR a retailer?

[Blast8180]

I was on the verge of purchasing one, but I held off. I can tell you that 888 over at Zero Ops (great custom shop in hawaii) said the the firefly kurage aeg buckings work best in conjunction with the twist barrel.

[snowman]

The way I (quickly) read that RR review, suggests it actually improved RANGE, rather than accuracy. At 10m, the stock TM was better than the TK equipped G18C.

 

It is a shame they didn't test a Sheriff LRB, too, though.

 

I've never read anything else to suggest the twist barrel is anything but a gimmick.

 

Cheers.

[Hissing_Sid]

That report over at RR is utter BS.

 

They fitted the twist barrel to an upgraded gun and checked it against a stock one.

 

Now, if they'd swapped the barrels on those 2 guns over I'd bet that the uprated gun would have been just as good with the stock barrel.

 

It's like saying fitting a new spring AND painting your gun purple makes it more powerful.

 

 

Then again, instead of offering reasonable rebuttals I could just point out that 99% of the time RR are full of ###### anyway. 300fps AEP anybody?

[Wege]

Do we need to go into that? (puts on anti-brown raincoat)

[PlasticMag]

Well I've got a TK twist barrel for the M4 on the way to fit into my AK. If it's utter ######, I'll be sure to let you guys know next skirmish.

 

Supposedly according to (I believe) '888' on Airsoft Retreat, he gets 200feet effective rane with a 285mm barrel, a Kurage hop-up bucking, and a 1j upgrade in a custom shorty AK. Truth? I dunno, but I'm gonna fork over the cash and find out.

[snowman]

What's effective range? That doesn't sound that good to me!

 

Cheers.

[bjorn]

Thats bs. Only way you can get 200ft with 1 joule upgrade is to uberhopup your gun and even then it will be "effective" to only few. For me effective is a clear hit with a few semi shots.

[Hissing_Sid]

Indeed.

When you cease to be able to put a BB on an A4 sheet of paper every time then THAT is the effective range of your gun.

 

I've fired my M4 right over a hilltop and (so I'm told) actually got somebody out who was coming up the other side, about 150m away. I wouldn't ever suggest that was within the "range" of my gun.

 

The calcs for muzzle velocity suggest a 1m drop in 50m and that is almost exactly what I would consider the outside range of a 1J gun, even taking the effects of hop-up into account.

[PlasticMag]

Hey, I'm just reporting what I was told. I don't have the proof yet.

[Catchv22]

But is the gain in accuracy because of the twist barrel or the v-type hop up? The concept of the v-type hop up makes more sense than the twist barrel...

[Corporate_Black_Ops]

Ah, you're talking about one sort of an LRB. The groove actually runs on the underside of the barrel to give the backspin. It wasn't a great success, and an offset base is a far more popular LRB type among classic airsofters. Classic guns have no other option, because a regular hop up can't be installed. On an AEG, a regular Hop Up is much better than an LRB.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The grooved barrel system has the groove at the top, it works well in its way - especially as it doesn't require adjustment for different power levels IIRC.

 

Classic guns have plenty of other options - The 'O'ring system, fixed and adjustable; the pin system, fixed and adjustable; the spring system; the sheet system (which is what AEGs use); the LRB...

The LRB is far superior to the sheet system but it can't be used on guns which load using a nozzle - the bb needs to impact the hop and this isn't possible in the two stage load - fire of a nozzle loaded weapon (including all AEGs).

Therefore on an AEG a sheet hop is much better than an LRB because the LRB will behave as if unhopped - in a Classic however...

A lot of stock Classics don't have hop systems, my FTC MP5K doesn't for example - because it was made in the mid-late 1980s and Hop systems weren't fitted at the time; My Sun Project however has a sheet system (it's nozzle loaded) which is somewhat feeble but perfectly servicable.

[odp]

I've seen/heard more than enough stories/experiences of tight-bore barrels (KM, Systema, Prometheus) stating that they don't improve accuracy as well.

 

Here's some food for thought. If they're so bad, why are people making them? Better yet, why are people still buying them? Of course, the same can asked about miracle diets and hair-restoration formulas.

 

I would take all reviews of these barrels (only one person here has actually posted about his experience with one barrel) with a grain of salt. On the topic of accuracy, which is quite subjective, there really needs to be more research and more reviews, especially from expert airsoft gunsmiths.