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wildstallion

The blind fire rule, Good or bad ?

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Our group uses engagement distances based on velocity. 10 feet is the minimum engagement otherwise your are expected to use a safety kill. All of our fields are woods, so no cqb or need to develop rules for it.

 

The interesting thing is, if you can't see what you are shooting at, how can you judge if it is beyond your minimum engagement?

 

To put it another way, if you can see 10' in front of your muzzle, you can shoot at whatever you want...

 

For higher fps the distance is longer (I won't bore you with the details)

 

There is no rule against blind firing, per se, but if someone gets hit up close, there is going to be a lumping in store for someone ;)

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I don't see a reason for it in the U.S., though. Except maye in extremely close CQB. Other than that, because we don't have the 1J limit, you'd have to be stupid as hell not to wear a full face mask. So taking a mag at close range probably wouldn't be toooooo bad, since bare skin usually isn't visible.

 

*edit*

 

And what with tac vests and baggy BDUs and all, the chance for getting seriously marked up with bruises isn't all that high.

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Did this issue not get resolved? I seem to recall everyone agreeing that only a total spanner would argue against the blindfire rule, and people nodding sagely before wandering off to flame the latest "wot am bestest gnu?" threads.

 

:zorro:

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Behold!

Romanowski gives his two cents!

 

My team only plays in woodland environments, simply for lack of a close quarters site. Blind fire happens alot. You and your buddies are pinned behind a little hill, and the first guy to stick his head up is going to get it. Someone has got to flank those suckers, but he's going to need some cover. Enter blindfire. We all wear proper protection. We play at a safe velocity. Besides, in woodland its kind of hard to get close enough to someone to really hurt them. Blind fire? You bet.

 

Close quarters is another story. Never really played indoors, but I can imagine it's going to be painful. Way I see it, you should not be playing that close unless your gun is at a safe velocity and everyone is properly protected. You should just ASSUME before going in that you are going to get hit close and hard, and go in equiped accordingly. That means mask, gloves, long sleeves, etc.

 

Getting mad at someone who blind fired on you at close range? Okay, that makes sense (sarcasm). Assume someone is just outside the door, less than five feet from you. If either one of you peeks or storms the room, SOMEONE is going to get hit up close. I mean, you are running around with BB guns shooting each other (if CQB) at close ranges. What right do you have to get mad if you get hit and it hurts, blind fire or not?

 

Way I see it, you should be playing this game with the proper equipment. That means a mask. Some of you delta wannabes think a mask is unrealistic. Well, thats just tuff luck when you get in the teeth.

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Don't shoot, unless you can see what you're shooting at. VERY basic safety rule, folks. Even a UK safe gun point blank will hurt if some blind firing numpty goes nuts. Btw, if they're that close, that's when the BANG rule comes into play. Tap them with your gun/hand/penis/rubber bayonet and say "You're dead." If they disagree, THEN light them up with 50 rounds full auto. M'kay?

 

:zorro:

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I think it all depends on the type of game you are playing... Mil-sims Blind fire is OK as you ARE imitating the real thing.

 

But I really don't have a problem with it.... the problem is idiots with highly upgraded parts but with no constraint whom believe rock and roll is the way to go.

 

99.9% of fields out here in Japan have limits, Indoor games CQB the gun has to be under .90 J and with a limited rate of FPS. Every gun is tested before you are allowed onto the game area and thats every time you enter.

 

Outdoor is the same only 1 J for Assault weapons and 1.26 Max for snipers. FPS is higher.

 

The thing is we are technical playing an EXTREME sport and accidents happen it's part of the territory, I notice alot of people here wear very inadequate eye protection, those glasses are idiotic! What good do you think they are going to do? wear googles or even better a full face mask !

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I notice alot of people here wear very inadequate eye protection, those glasses are idiotic! What good do you think they are going to do? wear googles or even better a full face mask !

 

Where did that come from?

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Where did that come from?

 

LOL sorry about the random rant.... but recently in a lot of the pics people are not wearing good enough eye protection. Eyes are very important and it makes me a little angry when i see poeple taking silly chances.

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What glasses though? I did wear goggles, but then i changed to shooting glasses, because I figured being able to see the enemy unobscured by mist outweighed having an airtight seal around my eyes B)

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I think it all depends on the type of game you are playing... Mil-sims Blind fire is OK as you ARE imitating the real thing.

 

Blind fire? Reality?

 

I think not. No way. Not ever.

 

Unless of course you're simulating a 100% untrained and very stupid terrorist that is.

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Yeah i think i may have previously said that it's okay to blind fire if everyone is wearing full face...but ive had my mind changed.

 

You can't tell the engagement distance in a blind fire = pain.

 

Also its a waste of ammo as the shots aren't being aimed on to a target in any way.

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I take lind firing to mean shooting where you can't see.. this would include firing a pistol behind you as you retreat and as you retreat around a corner and laying down a FEW rounds just to slow the persuing enemy down.

 

Both of these situations I would say it's a fair tactic - you aren't doing it for hits, you do it to give you a modicum of time to organise. I don't like the idea of saying "if you blind-fire hits don't count' thats open to too much interpretation. But the rules of the site might want to include a semi-only rule for firing around corners and to aim low.

 

But what happens if you are rounda corner and hear somone stood just the other side of the corner? You hear them, pretty much know their position - should you HAVE to stand up and run out to get the kill? Admittedly the range I'm thinking of a surrender could probably be gotten (or knife hit).

 

It should be another one of those honour things, if people are blatantly abusing it then they are removed or disiplined, but used in a situation where you could say to yourself "I would have chosen to do that too" it should just be treated as part of the game.

 

Forcing gun-hits to disable the gun or count as a kill would stop it being used as a rambo-tactic.

 

I think lots of people would prefer to just hide arounda corner, wait for them to walk around then claim a knife kill though.. far more bragable.

 

 

Edit: Forgot to say.. I'm talking about woodland not CQB - blindfiring inside just ruins it really, as the whole point of it is there are corners instead of trees :)

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I got only so far into this topic before my blood started to boil.

 

If you want to blindfire don't come to electrowerkz, you will be very very unpopular and asked to leave.

 

###### about "oh its ok, hits to the gun, ya yay ya...." are complete ######. I play against people with heavy kit, including a 7 round semi auto moscart gun. If he was allowed to blind fire the world would end. And as for "surely a hit to the gun counts?", well I don't know about you but I can't often tell hits to the gun and I know people who can't even tell hits to the body.

 

From a safety aspect it is evil.

 

As I said don't let me see you doing it at Electrowerkz or your £20 will go down the drain and you will get the early shower.

 

Basho

 

Oh and also, blind firing is staying under cover whilst shooting. It is not shooting behind you whilst running away (who the hell does this?) or firing from the hip etc. Nor is it lacing at a location you cannot see well (in the dark etc). You must be able to be hit. You can get away with barely an inch showing but you MUST have something.

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I clearly said Not CQB. I also didn't say "use giant Moscart launchers" (just because they are semi it would be an idiotic comeback. I also implied a sensible usage, i.e. if you don't know peoples locations at all then it's not a good idea, if you are retreating and DO know where they are (roughly) then you will only use it to suppress them when it would be unsafe to look backwards while running.

 

Lots of times when suppressing while people flank you can't see your target/s which is surely just as dangerous.. you might not be able to tell it was them that was hit so you carry on shooting, or you might hit exposed flesh.. the only difference with what most people envision as 'blind-firing' could be twisted so even though you can see someones leg in a bush they claim you were blind-firing.

 

When I said about using it with HONOUR I meant it, that includes taking the precaution that you don't full auto spray someone at 2 foot straight to their face. If it's down the broad side of a building or embankment for instance.. there's no chance that someone will pop up close to you, but you need to watch your back, so you're looking behind firing a few blind rounds down the wall just so they keep their heads down. NOT Rambo spraying. NOT hosing without any situational awareness and certainly NOT spamming with moscarts just-in-case.

 

By implementing a blanket rule you risk destroying legitimate sometimes necessary things. Just like the VCR bill is doing to us :P

 

 

Edit: Er got a 5 million degree laptop burning my groin atm, got carried away, ignore the stuff about people hiding with a leg showing that would be firing WHERE you can see still, opposed to firing at what a target you can't see.

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honor??

 

Have you played at a qcb site? Come to electrowerkz sometime and see the amount of bb's flying around. No one would get out alive if there was any BF of any kind. At the ranges we play it hurts.

 

I cannot speak for you woodland playing fairies. (/jk) ;)

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Electrowerkz is inside, no? Which makes it CQB, no? Which is a decided No-no, no? Which is what I said, yes?

 

(And it's Honour dag nammit - we have vowels for a reason!)

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If you cannot see the flight of your BB, due to crouching behind a barricade or hiding round a corner, then that is unsafe and un-sporting.

 

It's the same as taking un-necessary head shots. You shouldn't say "they don't count" but all players should be encouraged to avoid them.

 

If you *know* that someone is in a room, chuck in a grenade and shoot them when they leave.

 

If you are coming up to a corner, go flat against the wall and ever so slightly poke your head round. You're not exposing yourself unless your opponent is a supernatural shot, but you can see well enough to ensure you aren't gonna hose some poor bugger from a foot away.

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Blind fire? Reality?

 

I think not.  No way.  Not ever.

 

Unless of course you're simulating a 100% untrained and very stupid terrorist that is.

Oddly enough, I was just going to say exactly the same thing.

 

So, we're all wearing our BHI plate carriers and vests, our aviator gloves, skateboard helmets and kneepads. We've got our M4 all painted up in desert cammo and an ACOG bolted to the top rail.

 

And we're gonna hose like morons around every corner?

 

Somebody needs to show me which manual that tactic is in.

 

Unless, of course, you're milsimming reservists, green recruits or US soldiers in vietnam then I don't think you can really use "milsim" as an excuse for blind firing.

 

Like I said 6 months ago, I think it's dumb and unfair. Basically.

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Electrowerkz is inside, no? Which makes it CQB, no? Which is a decided No-no, no? Which is what I said, yes?

 

(And it's Honour dag nammit - we have vowels for a reason!)

 

Bah, the very idea of blind firing has me in such a rage I forget how to spell!

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Oh for goodness sake. :flamed:

 

It is now clearly obvious that MANY people are not reading what has already been posted in this thread before shouting off about how great and valuable Blind-Firing is, so I'm going to end it now.

 

 

Why Blind-Firing is BAD:

  • What about the Marshals? Blind firing OFTEN results in Marshals getting hosed at close range. Marshals regularly don't wear full-face protection because they have to communicate effectively with players and each other. If you blind-fire, you are putting Marshal safety at risk. I am a Marshal, and I nearly lost teeth once to a Blind Firer - on another occasion a Blind Firer sprayed my neck at close range, drawing blood (with a 280fps rental gun).

     

  • What about players who have already been hit and are walking out of the game zone with their hand in the air. Blind firing OFTEN results in them getting hosed, even though they are already out. They will NOT like you for this and I have seen punch-ups narrowly averted, resulting from blind-firing in this manner.

     

  • What about observers / camera operators / visitors? They are not playing yet if present, they will be attacked - this is not fair or right.

     

  • It is cowardly - the blind-firer is afraid of being hit by a plastic BB, so he/she resorts to dangerous gun-play - why are you playing Airsoft if you're afraid of getting hit?

     

  • If you are pinned down, use skill, teamwork, and tactics to outflank the oppressors, or chuck a grenade. It is more precise, more fun, and doesn't turn everything in front of you in to "death-canyon".

     

  • If someone Blind-Fires even in woodland, it is unfair on the other side. The Blind-Firer can't be hit, but can suppress a team, making the game boring for them. All it takes is a Blind-Firer with a box-mag in a good position and the game grinds to a halt. What is skillful about that???

     

  • Blind Fire is non-discriminatory. It doesn't matter how well protected the victim is, BBs can hit the neck, the forehead, the ear, the genetalia, the fingers, the nipples, and any other sensitive part of the body. Even if someone is wearing a lot of protective kit, BBs will still get through and the shooter has no control over where they go.

     

  • If an attacker is moving up on the position held by a Blind-Firer, the Blind Firer does sometimes end up actually punching the attacker with his/her barrel as the gun is hurled in to the firing position - it has happened to me TWICE before, and it hurts.

     

  • Blind firing is inaccurate. Blind-Firers are wasting ammo, and have no idea who they are hitting.

     

  • It is NOT a real military practice, so Blind-Firing cannot be defended on the basis of "well we are simulating what the real forces do". Real forces do not spray metal-death blindly, they need to see what they are shooting at or risk killing innocent civilians or friendly forces. Real soldiers also don't have enough ammo to waste by Blind Firing.

     

  • And the ultimate reason - Blind Firers are Firing Blind! Sounds simple enough, but by firing blind, you have no idea of how far away your target is or where on their body you are shooting them. THIS IS UNSAFE, no matter what FPS you are shooting at. If someone is adjusting their eye protection because they can't see you and think the area is clear - then you pop your gun round the barricade and hose them, you could blind them.
Why Blind-Firing is GOOD:
  • Ummmmm, nope. No VALID reasons have been posted why Blind-Firing is a recommended practice, only opinions from people who want to do it. I can't think of a good reason why it should be encouraged either.
And if someone Blind-Fires with a Moscart, they are just stupid.

 

 

 

In my last post where I reopened this thread, I said...

 

remember what has been said before here guys n gals - it's all still relevant ;)

 

These words have clearly not been heeded, so this thread is being closed for the final time - it will not be re-opened.

 

 

 

Oh, and for those who didn't bother to read what I just posted...

 

Blind Firing is stupid, cowardly, dangerous, selfish, unfair, irresponsible, not tactical, and annoying for other players.

 

There is ABSOLUTELY NO VALID REASON why blindfiring is a good thing.

Think about it.

 

 

Thread pinned to ensure the enlightenment of those who partake in this risky and irresponsible practice, and to stop this question from continually re-appearing (this discussion always just ends up going round in circles anyway).

 

Thread closed - never to re-open.

 

 

----------------------------------------------------------

 

 

UPDATE: Discussion continued here...

 

http://www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/forums/inde...showtopic=25261

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