Phalanix Posted June 21, 2006 Report Share Posted June 21, 2006 Here are some pics I've posted on Airsoft Canada in regards to ACU. http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=22864&page=1 I find it funny that people complain that the camo sucks and it doesn't work - well, d'uh! Of course it is not effective when they put ACU right up to a green, wooded area. The camo wasn't designed for that. By their logic, I can put Multicam up in the middle of the city and say it sucks too, because it'll stand out compared to the urban surroundings. Some people really need to get their heads out of the idea that camoflauge = wooded areas. Majority of the ACU comparison to other camo pictures I've seen people take are in wooded / foliage areas. Why? But anyhoo, the link has some pics of ACU in different environments - personally I think the camo looks great in person. And as someone else stated earlier, it looks very professional - especially when you have an entire team wearing it. Link to post Share on other sites
zagarol Posted June 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2006 Thanks for the great comments guys. Looking at it I think ACU is a good idea for early in the year and for FIBUA / CQB so I think I will recommend we get some for our team colours. Although looking at it and the various comparisons with other camos I think we may well stick to plain old British DPM as it looks IMHO by far the best camo for the woodland sites we use in the UK. Now if anyone has some shots of ACU in some funky urban / CQB action that would be fantastic. Thanks very much for everyones input. Zag Link to post Share on other sites
Wraith18A Posted June 21, 2006 Report Share Posted June 21, 2006 Well, I'll put my experience with ACU up here... My buddy wore it at OP: Iron Justice, and during the day it sucked. Nothing was very good. However, at night, me (wearing MARPAT) and my buddy (in ACU). We went on a ambush. I got into a small cleared area of the tree patch, and he literally disa-*fruitcage*-appeared into this white-washed "castle" of sorts. Neither of us were seen until we opened fire on the group. And it was hard enough to see him after he had joined the group. Link to post Share on other sites
doc_newstead Posted June 21, 2006 Report Share Posted June 21, 2006 I find it funny that people complain that the camo sucks and it doesn't work - well, d'uh! Of course it is not effective when they put ACU right up to a green, wooded area. The camo wasn't designed for that. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That's precisely my point. Anyone with two eyes and a hole in their *albatross* can see that. So why is it lauded as a 'universal' camo, and a 'general solution'? It works *okay* in some environments, terrible in others. I don't understand why people assume/insist it was meant to ever see greenery. And why all the bumf claims that it would ever work in temperate climates. It's worn with desert boots ffs. I can't predict the future, but if the US Army are ever deployed to somewhere that isn't sandy and covered in craters (Kosovo, Taiwan, North Korea, South America), how popular will this camo be then? EDIT: I've gone off on one here, but I'll try and sum up. This thread started because zagarol said "Is ACU really that bad?", and intended to use it in the UK. And my beef is, is that you can see it's absolutely awful in temperate climates. But people will insist on defending it, and saying things like "it blends in" and "once you're behind 5 tonnes on vegetation, it works well". Or "the white balance on the camera is off", or "it's the wrong time of day", so-on and so-forth. Where is this BS coming from? It looks awful in every single photo I've seen of it being worn over here. There are photos of Team Wannabe wearing it at TA2, and for all intents and purposes, they could have been wearing hi-vis jackets. It's like the Emperor's new clothes. Who is being kidded when we're told it works well here? And why? Link to post Share on other sites
HaVoC Posted June 21, 2006 Report Share Posted June 21, 2006 Only problem is, it's a bit naff against sand, too. Photos from a mate in Iraq at the moment... ACU against sand It's really poor against this sand, too. Against a redder sand, it'd suck even worse, I'd imagine. However... With some shadow to break it up, as seen here, it ain't half bad Link to post Share on other sites
tangman Posted June 22, 2006 Report Share Posted June 22, 2006 no camo would work that well in that first picture, except for the hut its all open terrain. I would say that tri colour and choc chip would blend in better but you would still stick out as theres nothing to help conceal you. Link to post Share on other sites
Wraith18A Posted June 22, 2006 Report Share Posted June 22, 2006 Actually, at range, that camo works well, in that first picture. You're forgetting that its the desert, and very hot, which causes the shimmer from heat. Beyond about 50-60 yards, the shimmer can/will trick your eyes for something about waist high. Double that, and you really can't see into it, unless you're using binos. Link to post Share on other sites
Phalanix Posted June 22, 2006 Report Share Posted June 22, 2006 ACU does fairly well in temperate wooded areas during winter and spring, it falls short during summer and autumn seasons. It's universal camo, hey, why not? ACU's great for FIBUA / MOUT, areas with shadows, dead foliage, dark desert areas and night time. As stated in my previous post, the link to the pictures show just that - when ACU's effective. Link to post Share on other sites
Maple-Leaf Posted June 22, 2006 Report Share Posted June 22, 2006 no camo would work that well in that first picture, except for the hut its all open terrain. I would say that tri colour and choc chip would blend in better but you would still stick out as theres nothing to help conceal you. Camouflage is different from concealment though - concealment is being hidden from view, camouflage is being disguised from view. True, the type of terrain in this photo is a very difficult one because it is so featureless - but a well-trained, tactically-minded soldier would still be able to take advantage of things like the lee of the dunes, shadows, etc. On the other hand, there are definitely better camo patterns for this type of environment than the US Army's "Universal Digital Camouflage Pattern" (UDCP) as used on the ACU. Such as HyperStealth's new SOPAT-3 "Light Desert" pattern - see my quickly mocked up photo attached. Link to post Share on other sites
JCYC5 Posted June 22, 2006 Report Share Posted June 22, 2006 Honestly? That stands out just as much as the ACU does. Doubt anything will "work" in that situation. Yes, even the *mighty* Hyperstealth won't. Link to post Share on other sites
Maple-Leaf Posted June 22, 2006 Report Share Posted June 22, 2006 It's like the Emperor's new clothes. Who is being kidded when we're told it works well here? And why? That's exactly what it is Doc - lots of people think that just becuase the US Army adopted it, it must be great. But its not - its critically and fundamentally flawed and nobody was willing to challenge the group-think mentality and say hang on a minute this stuff is actually ######. We've been having a discussion over on Militaryphotos.net about the next generation SOF BDUs and one of the guys posted a link to the summary presentation from the US Army team that evaluated different attempts to design a "universal" camouflage pattern. Here's a link to the relevant post, which also contains a link to the US Army Powerpoint set: http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showp...38&postcount=98 The most interesting things I took away from reading that report were: 1. The UDCP was not included in the tests - it was derived from some of the test results on the basis that it combined the colours that they thought were the best together with the pixilated digital pattern from MARPAT. But then they didn't test to see if the whole was as good as its parts.... 2. The most successful pattern from the trials "Desert Brush" has simply vanished from the face of the planet - leaving the field open for Crye Precision to make over-blown claims for Multicam (known as "Scorpion" pattern at the time of the tests). 3. The whole concept of a single "universal" camo pattern is a hallucination anyways.... Just because the US Army thought that UDCP was a good idea and decided to invest hundreds of thousands of dollars into it doesn't mean that its actually a successful solution. After all, at one time people thought filling a big bag with extremely flammable gas was a great way to fly lots of people over long distances - it only took one little spark to knock that idea down.... Link to post Share on other sites
tangman Posted June 22, 2006 Report Share Posted June 22, 2006 You cant just rely on the BDU to keep you camoflauged though, unless you have a stealth suit from metal gear solid nothing will keep you completely invisible You cant really use the hyperstealth pic to compare, that photo was taken part of a photo shoot, im pretty sure it would look a lot different if the troops were actually wearing it and you took a photo. Link to post Share on other sites
minimiman Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 I want everybody to buy and wear ACU Then I can see where they are and shoot them, yes it's that bad in woodland. Photo's don't give it justice, on site it stands out like a sore thumb. I don't want anybody to buy milticam, DPM, Flecktarn or US woodland, I like to spot my opponents ACU looks like nice kit, it's distinctive and looks fresh and new, I can see why guy's buy it, but it's not for me. Link to post Share on other sites
Jungle_Spectre Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 Please allow to remind you that at small arms ranges, no camo pattern is THAT effective. Or are we like Milhouse going to Shelbyville? Not that I like or favour ACU nor any other fancy patterns, but with all those blue-on-blue incidentes, I'd rather wear a less effective but DISTINCTIVE camo. (Yes, I'm stating that 1) US newest patterns are ugly and absurd, 2) Coallition forces are trigger-happy). Link to post Share on other sites
Kerb Posted June 24, 2006 Report Share Posted June 24, 2006 I've worn ACU out in woodland and it got mixed reactions....at first it was the old jokes of Mr 'ICU' which was fine, the sun was out, but then later on in a defensive missions, in the shadows as the sun set, it was great! lying prone on the floor next to a trunk, not many people spotted me at first glance, which gave me time to open up on them. Tomorrow I try multicam out as i've just got my hands on it. I've tried marpat and it works for some, but it really doesnt work for me, also I dont really get all the rage about Flecktarn, tbh most of the people i have spotted and shot have been wearing Flecktarn, their pretty easy to spot. Link to post Share on other sites
Maple-Leaf Posted June 26, 2006 Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 later on in a defensive missions, in the shadows as the sun set, it was great! lying prone on the floor next to a trunk, not many people spotted me at first glance, The same could be said for DPM, MARPAT, WOODLAND, etc. etc. etc. The only times I've seen UDCP being effective is when people have hunkered up against a grey tree trunk or against grey concrete in urban settings. 99% of the time in woodland settings they completely stand out against the backgrounds... Link to post Share on other sites
hivemind Posted June 26, 2006 Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 I guess my response would be that if you know how to hide - how to use shadows, be still, break up your silhouette, etc. - you can do it in jeans and a T-shirt just as well as camoflagued clothing. So in the end, there's a lot more to not being seen than the pattern of your cammies. Since I know this, I have no problems wearing ACUs in the woods. Never once has a person killed me, then said "OMG you stuck out sooo bad in those ICUs!". Link to post Share on other sites
The Waco Kid Posted June 26, 2006 Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 But it's movement that gives it away. Shadows don't move. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What about the shadow of a jet aircraft travelling at 600mph then? My personal experience of owning both ACU & MC is that ACU is a far less useful pattern. It would be near the end of the list of choices if I had to actually wear camouflage "in anger" & expect it to provide some protection due to effective concealment. If you want something that will work to some degree stick to the tried & tested DPM, US woodland, Flecktarn etc. As a team uniform for airsoft purposes I think it looks great. Burberry works well if you stand behind a big enough bush. Link to post Share on other sites
Maple-Leaf Posted June 26, 2006 Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 Burberry works well if you stand behind a big enough bush. Link to post Share on other sites
Scythe Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 Southern California would be considered a desert region for the most part. These pics were taken in Big Bear California in February (Mountains ~ 7000 ft). ACU blends pretty nicely, all my airsoft buddies wear it and it is pretty difficult to pick someone out when we play up there. I alternate between fleck and ACU, and I find both have their good and bad, as it seems all patterns do (I am not a believer in 1 universal camo for all). Scythe Link to post Share on other sites
TYRO Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 New boots bro, asap, bellivilles ftw. Link to post Share on other sites
Kerb Posted June 29, 2006 Report Share Posted June 29, 2006 The same could be said for DPM, MARPAT, WOODLAND, etc. etc. etc. The only one there that really works well in the static is DPM, maybe marpat at a stretch. Flecktarn is awful. Link to post Share on other sites
Wraith18A Posted June 29, 2006 Report Share Posted June 29, 2006 Yeah, and don't wear that SF tab...I don't mind the unit flash but that tab... Link to post Share on other sites
Jagdraben Posted June 29, 2006 Report Share Posted June 29, 2006 The only one there that really works well in the static is DPM, maybe marpat at a stretch. Flecktarn is awful. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Flecktarn pwns j00 n00b. It's milsim, dude. The best camouflage patterns for where my team has been playing have to be OVTS, Flecktarn, or CADPAT. Link to post Share on other sites
Maple-Leaf Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Yeah, and don't wear that SF tab...I don't mind the unit flash but that tab... Nothing wrong with wearing the insignia correctly if you're actually going for a fully authentic representation. However, wearing the combat patch is a bit much.... Link to post Share on other sites
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